Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 21, 2016 05:24AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 269 |
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widespreaddeadhead
Has anyone put together a build guide or set of videos? I just received all my parts for 2 fuseboxes, and I might build one to get the feel for it, and document the 2nd build for a guide.
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 21, 2016 10:36AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 251 |
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Ax
I'm waiting on the extrusions to arrive for the next FB2020 iteration, I'm starting to convert my Prusas over. This will be the documentation one, it should be similar to the Fusebox.
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 21, 2016 04:29PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 776 |
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Ax
Quick heads up, if you're interested, I've got a stream up of the FB2020 in action, can be seen at [home.axmod.co.uk]
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 21, 2016 04:58PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 269 |
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lkcl
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Ax
Quick heads up, if you're interested, I've got a stream up of the FB2020 in action, can be seen at [home.axmod.co.uk]
looked at it a couple days ago ax, it looks really good. is it stable? on the sandwich200v1 the bed can be seen to be pushed around quite a bit if the filament ends up getting higher than it should (over-extrusion at the corners being the usual culprit).
oh btw alfa-tech.com started stocking 20x20mm extrusion as well as sliding T-locks and cast aluminium corner braces with interlocks into the extrusion rails. looks really effective and strong, i may get some next time for a rev3.
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 21, 2016 05:07PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 776 |
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Ax
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lkcl
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Ax
Quick heads up, if you're interested, I've got a stream up of the FB2020 in action, can be seen at [home.axmod.co.uk]
looked at it a couple days ago ax, it looks really good. is it stable? on the sandwich200v1 the bed can be seen to be pushed around quite a bit if the filament ends up getting higher than it should (over-extrusion at the corners being the usual culprit).
oh btw alfa-tech3d.com started stocking 20x20mm extrusion as well as sliding T-locks and cast aluminium corner braces with interlocks into the extrusion rails. looks really effective and strong, i may get some next time for a rev3.
Bed is damn stable, the 3 point levelling has made it a breeze to level out and it stays.
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I had to tweak it today after about 30 hours of printing, but that was just me being anal about the first layers, it also could have just been the filament, old ColorFabb XT that's just been stored in a box, so I could have left it and it would have been fine. I'm still tweaking settings for my everyday filament, ColorFabb NGEN as I'm getting random bobbing on corners and layer ends. I'm probably going to bring the flow rate down a few percent to see what happens.
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Other that that, I'm to the point with it that I don't even have to look at it after kicking off a print, so, so far it's damn reliable, although it's only spent 4 days in the farm, so time will tell. All my printers run pretty much 24/7 and the FB2020 has been no exception and really doesn't need touching.
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That link seems to lead to a dead site or holding page, for extrusions I go to Misumi, they don't deal with the public in the EU, but I get them all through my business. I'd like to check prices though. A full extrusion set with the a bag of 100 cheap T-Nuts from Misumi is £46.30, the nuts being the most expensive part at £12.07 ex VAT. The 147mm extrusions being the most expensive at £1.90 ex VAT. Basically the Extrusions cost me peanuts at a total of £26.84 ex VAT. The brackets from Misumi on the other hand are expensive as hell.
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 21, 2016 05:26PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 269 |
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lkcl
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Ax
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lkcl
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Ax
Quick heads up, if you're interested, I've got a stream up of the FB2020 in action, can be seen at [home.axmod.co.uk]
looked at it a couple days ago ax, it looks really good. is it stable? on the sandwich200v1 the bed can be seen to be pushed around quite a bit if the filament ends up getting higher than it should (over-extrusion at the corners being the usual culprit).
oh btw alfa-tech3d.com started stocking 20x20mm extrusion as well as sliding T-locks and cast aluminium corner braces with interlocks into the extrusion rails. looks really effective and strong, i may get some next time for a rev3.
Bed is damn stable, the 3 point levelling has made it a breeze to level out and it stays.
cooool.
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I had to tweak it today after about 30 hours of printing, but that was just me being anal about the first layers, it also could have just been the filament, old ColorFabb XT that's just been stored in a box, so I could have left it and it would have been fine. I'm still tweaking settings for my everyday filament, ColorFabb NGEN as I'm getting random bobbing on corners and layer ends. I'm probably going to bring the flow rate down a few percent to see what happens.
yeah i get that too - i don't get it with repsnapper because repsnapper has an option to add "curves" automatically at corners. it's the only gcode-generating software i've found that does it, and it's extremely effective at stopping the corner-blobbing. repsnapper however didn't suit me for other reasons - the parts i was printing at the time were too complex for it.
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Other that that, I'm to the point with it that I don't even have to look at it after kicking off a print, so, so far it's damn reliable, although it's only spent 4 days in the farm, so time will tell. All my printers run pretty much 24/7 and the FB2020 has been no exception and really doesn't need touching.
!!
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That link seems to lead to a dead site or holding page, for extrusions I go to Misumi, they don't deal with the public in the EU, but I get them all through my business. I'd like to check prices though. A full extrusion set with the a bag of 100 cheap T-Nuts from Misumi is £46.30, the nuts being the most expensive part at £12.07 ex VAT. The 147mm extrusions being the most expensive at £1.90 ex VAT. Basically the Extrusions cost me peanuts at a total of £26.84 ex VAT. The brackets from Misumi on the other hand are expensive as hell.
i noticed - it's alfa-tech3d.com. he's quoting $EUR 18 for 600mm - and $EUR 0.62 per M3 T-Nut. T-slot brackets $EUR 1.15 each.
... i don't have a company account.... next time (sandwich200 v3) can i order 2020 misumi extrusion sets through you?
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 24, 2016 10:57PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 47 |
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widespreaddeadhead
Has anyone put together a build guide or set of videos? I just received all my parts for 2 fuseboxes, and I might build one to get the feel for it, and document the 2nd build for a guide.
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 24, 2016 11:01PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 47 |
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 27, 2016 02:15PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 7 |
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 27, 2016 07:31PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 776 |
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dgcaste
Does the extruder run at other than 1/16 microstepping? Extruder is skipping occasionally and my driver is maxed out. I don't think it's the tension either.
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 27, 2016 07:43PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 269 |
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 27, 2016 10:32PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 83 |
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Ax
Personally, I'd take the Titan option. Injection moulded is far more accurate than a printed part.
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 28, 2016 03:45AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 776 |
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Ax
Personally, I'd take the Titan option. Injection moulded is far more accurate than a printed part.
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 28, 2016 05:11AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 269 |
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lkcl
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Ax
Personally, I'd take the Titan option. Injection moulded is far more accurate than a printed part.
in no particular order here's a quick "yes" and "no" - i'm agreeing with you buuuut it's not the full story. you can't make your own replacement injection-molded spare parts at home [yet!]. i've got 2 older revisions of the geared extruder and 1 extra spare set sitting in a bag just in case something breaks or wears out, i can bootstrap back to "working". on the other hand: if you've read jason's writeup on the Flex3Drive, wow that guy clearly knows what he's doing. he used a special type of plastic that's designed for injection-molding gears, where it's pre-treated and mixed with a lubricant that will work its way to the surface of the plastic during its (long) lifetime. i'm just spraying the PLA herringbone gears every week with silicone, and i'm happy with that for now until the Flex3Drive arrives. i haven't found a similar report from E3D (yet) on how they made the gears on the Titan, and i don't see a "lifetime warranty" offer from E3D like jason offers for the Flex3Drive's gears. maybe i haven't looked hard enough?
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 28, 2016 08:25AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 7 |
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 28, 2016 08:43AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 776 |
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dgcaste
I won't go into much detail right now because I'm at work, but enabling microstepping does reduce holding torque (and therefore turning torque) on a stepper motor. Stepper motors are synchronous DC motors, a magnet that aligns to a magnetic flux. In a two phase system, we simply adjust the current through the two phases to create a flux for the magnet to align to. What microstepping does is further refines the currents that we put in through the two phases. The more the two phases fight with each other to create an "in between" flux the lower the holding torque is going to be. The highest torque will exist when both phases contribute to the same flux, the lowest torque when the two phases oppose each other. So microstepping, in effect, trades torque for accuracy. It's not about PWM, but about magnetic fields.
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 28, 2016 09:02AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 7 |
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lkcl
... someone'd better let dc42 know - he's under the impression that the work done (watts) per revolution remains the same, based on the supplied current, regardless of the stepping rate. the amount of work *per step* may increase. i had heard about the reduced holding torque thing. buuut... let's think it through. what you're saying is that the amount of torque is based on *subtraction* of - the difference between - two phases (sine-waves). if so, that would make a lot of sense. ok, so now i have some actual physics to let dc42 know about, which i wasn't aware of before, so thank you dgcaste.
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 28, 2016 10:28AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 7 |
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 28, 2016 11:40AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 269 |
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dgcaste
I have another question. The hotend fan on this has to be fairly thin in order to not hit the belt when the Y axis is maxed out, but using a thin fan that's already cropped by over 50% because of the design of the hot end air nozzle ends up giving very little airflow. Any suggestions on what kind of fan to use, or does anyone know of a remix that makes this less of a problem?
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 28, 2016 12:33PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 7 |
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Ax
You'll have to change the Y carriers as well, by my FB2020 carraige'll work. You'll be able to use your layer fan of choice then ot use the FB one..
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 28, 2016 12:44PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 269 |
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dgcaste
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Ax
You'll have to change the Y carriers as well, by my FB2020 carraige'll work. You'll be able to use your layer fan of choice then ot use the FB one..
Can I keep the corner bearing and motor mounts? I like the idea of having the fan clear the bottom of the extrusions so I can achieve full airflow. Alternatively, I can design an angled interface part that does this with AlexY's design at least for the time being, and slice off your fan nozzle which is cool looking
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 28, 2016 06:49PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,685 |
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lkcl
... someone'd better let dc42 know - he's under the impression that the work done (watts) per revolution remains the same, based on the supplied current, regardless of the stepping rate. the amount of work *per step* may increase..
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dgcaste
Work is a funny thing in synchronous DC motors. It's called holding torque because it's the force at which you would break away from the established step and into the next synchronous step, which is what happens when the motor skips due to opposing forces. When you weaken the magnetic field because you fiddle with it to increase precision, you dilute the holding torque. There's other things happening in the motor such as friction, and if you remember from physics class static friction is higher than dynamic friction, so it's possible for the rotor to stop just before or after the synchronous step because the holding torque is not strong enough to overcome the static even though it was enough for the dynamic. Due to this, accuracy can suffer too and the rotor can lag.
Here's more:
[users.ece.utexas.edu]
[machinedesign.com]
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 28, 2016 06:58PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 7 |
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 28, 2016 06:59PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 776 |
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dc42
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lkcl
... someone'd better let dc42 know - he's under the impression that the work done (watts) per revolution remains the same, based on the supplied current, regardless of the stepping rate. the amount of work *per step* may increase..
I am certain that I have never made such a statement, because it is so obviously untrue. Kindly link to the post which gave you that impression.
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 28, 2016 07:06PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,685 |
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lkcl
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dc42
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lkcl
... someone'd better let dc42 know - he's under the impression that the work done (watts) per revolution remains the same, based on the supplied current, regardless of the stepping rate. the amount of work *per step* may increase..
I am certain that I have never made such a statement, because it is so obviously untrue. Kindly link to the post which gave you that impression.
i can't remember! so many things to deal with, so many posts, i am losing track, i apologise - and, it appears, misunderstanding as well. or, i just didn't make myself clear enough. don't know. happy to learn here. will read up a bit more.
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 28, 2016 09:46PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 166 |
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 28, 2016 10:13PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 47 |
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AlexY
Hi all,
I've been working on and off lately on a new CoreXY design, which aims to make several improvements over the FuseBox.
Here's what I have so far:
[attachment 77272 FuseBoxTwo.png]
Differences include dual extrusion with the E3D Chimera, linear rails instead of rods on the x axis (to save weight), 2020 construction (should be easier to source and is more rigid), and a new z-axis design with 3 point leveling and dual belt-driven leadscrews. With all these changes, it'll probably cost a fair bit more than the FB, but it should make up for that with faster speeds and potentially better print quality.
Been busy with school recently, so for now getting parts and assembling will have to wait.
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 28, 2016 10:45PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 47 |
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 30, 2016 07:22AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 776 |
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dgcaste
Makes perfect sense too that the holding torque at the full stop positions is the strongest regardless of microstepping, because the current is strongest in one coil and essentially off in the other.
Re: FuseBox ~$300 CoreXY Printer April 30, 2016 07:33AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 776 |
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AlexY
Hi all,
Differences include dual extrusion with the E3D Chimera, linear rails instead of rods on the x axis (to save weight), 2020 construction (should be easier to source and is more rigid), and a new z-axis design with 3 point leveling and dual belt-driven leadscrews. With all these changes, it'll probably cost a fair bit more than the FB, but it should make up for that with faster speeds and potentially better print quality.
Been busy with school recently, so for now getting parts and assembling will have to wait.