Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 16, 2016 08:51AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,035 |
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 16, 2016 09:16AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 776 |
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realthor
What range of amperage should we look for when buying stepper motors? Nema 17 specifically, they seem to be the norm with 3d printers these days.
Thanks.
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 16, 2016 09:33AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,035 |
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 16, 2016 09:56AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,684 |
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realthor
What range of amperage should we look for when buying stepper motors? Nema 17 specifically, they seem to be the norm with 3d printers these days.
Thanks.
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 16, 2016 11:47AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,035 |
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 16, 2016 02:53PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 776 |
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realthor
This motor is being sold by someone in the area i've noticed it on a local sale website so I was wondering if it's worth it.
My reprap is as simple as it gets, belt everywhere (Z included - that should have some gearing or 0.9 at least) and linear rods, so nothing spectacular or fancy.
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 16, 2016 03:40PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,684 |
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realthor
Anyway I will want to eventually have dual hotend, heated bed, 32bit controller (possibly Duet 0.85 even if not open source it's the one I would buy under 60Eur/$).
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 16, 2016 03:52PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,035 |
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 16, 2016 03:57PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,684 |
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lkcl
extruder is where you'll struggle. even a 4:1 gear ratio where it's considered "normal" in the non-professional 3d printing community to run the motor red-hot, you'd run into problems.
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lkcl
i'm currently running at 1.2A and 1/16th microstepping on the Flex3Drive i have here (with a whopping 3600 steps / mm), the reason why i'm doing that is because i haven't yet cut the tracks on the Duet 0.8.5 PCB to enable 1/4 microstepping, at which point i can ramp the current right down to below 0.5A.
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 16, 2016 03:58PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,035 |
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dc42
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realthor
Anyway I will want to eventually have dual hotend, heated bed, 32bit controller (possibly Duet 0.85 even if not open source it's the one I would buy under 60Eur/$).
The Duet 0.8.5 IS open source (CERN OHW license). But you won't find it for 60Eur/$ because it's made in the UK, not China, to good quality standards, and completed Duets are tested properly before they are shipped.
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 16, 2016 04:02PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,684 |
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realthor
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dc42
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realthor
Anyway I will want to eventually have dual hotend, heated bed, 32bit controller (possibly Duet 0.85 even if not open source it's the one I would buy under 60Eur/$).
The Duet 0.8.5 IS open source (CERN OHW license). But you won't find it for 60Eur/$ because it's made in the UK, not China, to good quality standards, and completed Duets are tested properly before they are shipped.
Yes, I should have known that. If I buy Duet 0.8.5 I'll buy from Replikeo, have followed the threads lately they seem to have solved their quality issues. It's around $60 there. If not I would really want to try the Gen7 32bits ... I know the friction that goes here in the forums but yeah...
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 16, 2016 04:06PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,035 |
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dc42
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realthor
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dc42
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realthor
Anyway I will want to eventually have dual hotend, heated bed, 32bit controller (possibly Duet 0.85 even if not open source it's the one I would buy under 60Eur/$).
The Duet 0.8.5 IS open source (CERN OHW license). But you won't find it for 60Eur/$ because it's made in the UK, not China, to good quality standards, and completed Duets are tested properly before they are shipped.
Yes, I should have known that. If I buy Duet 0.8.5 I'll buy from Replikeo, have followed the threads lately they seem to have solved their quality issues. It's around $60 there. If not I would really want to try the Gen7 32bits ... I know the friction that goes here in the forums but yeah...
AFAIK Replikeo only sells the older Duet 0.6 version, which was a good board but lacks some of the features added in the 0.8.5, e.g. dual extrusion and the second controlled fan. I've had no feedback on whether they have solved their QA problems or not.
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 16, 2016 05:39PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 776 |
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dc42
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lkcl
extruder is where you'll struggle. even a 4:1 gear ratio where it's considered "normal" in the non-professional 3d printing community to run the motor red-hot, you'd run into problems.
What matters is the holding torque of the motor at the current you run it at, which should normally be no more than about 85% of the rated current. If high speed is important, then the motor resistance and inductance are important too, along with the power supply voltage. Both my printers use extruders with approx. 3:1 gear ration, 420 steps/mm, using motors rated at 1.33A and 0.24Nm, driven at 0.8A to 1.0A.
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lkcl
i'm currently running at 1.2A and 1/16th microstepping on the Flex3Drive i have here (with a whopping 3600 steps / mm), the reason why i'm doing that is because i haven't yet cut the tracks on the Duet 0.8.5 PCB to enable 1/4 microstepping, at which point i can ramp the current right down to below 0.5A.
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 16, 2016 05:47PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 776 |
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realthor
For XY I plan on using 16 tooth GT2 pulleys.
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For Z I was planning the same before I get some good no-backlash gearing and I was not very concerned (smartrapcore alu still uses this solution so it's doable -yes, it'll go bang on a power-cut but there are solutions out there)
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For extruder I plan bowden as you observed and i will not use 1.2A but was planning to use a bigger motor as I wanted to go direct drive.
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E3D Titan is soo appealing though.
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I have a big questionmark for the power source (12V / 24V?), hotends heaters (*V?).
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 16, 2016 06:25PM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 268 |
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 17, 2016 02:35AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,035 |
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 17, 2016 04:16AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 776 |
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Koko76
"watch out for that, though: *don't* wrap the corexy belt through 180 degrees round GT2-16t's. put an idler bearing in (or two) so that the belt loops back on itself through 90 degrees instead."
Complete and total nonsense.
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I have >180 wrap on 15t GT2's Worked just fine for many hundreds of hours so far.
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 17, 2016 04:35AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 776 |
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realthor
I was only planning to use 1.2A for XY stage. I plan for Z to have 1.8+A and for the extruder I never gave it enough thought by now but direct drive with MK7 worked for so many... although I think I got some MK8s even if I ordered MK7 on aliexpress. But I still have those abroad, at my previous location. It's not difficult to print a herringbone-geared ensemble if it doesn't perform well enough.
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One question about gears, I am in Europe, where can I get some gears module for Z motor if I didn't want to buy a stepper motor with gears built-in?
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Preferably Germany would be best...
The question about the power source remains... what power (considering I will want to have a heated bed eventually, +2 extruders) and what is with this 12V vs 24V debate and what is with the relay and all that stuff...
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 17, 2016 04:52AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,035 |
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 17, 2016 05:02AM |
Admin Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 13,978 |
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 17, 2016 05:23AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,035 |
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VDX
... I've powered my first heated bed simply with a bare 12VAC@8A transformator (which gives roughly 16 to 14 Volts AC depending on load) and switched the current with an AC-SSR.
This can be done with any available transformator (found several from 5VAC@60A to 14000VAC@1mA in my scrapery), but for heated beds I'll avoid output powers above 50 Volts and currents greater than 20 Amps for safety reasons (and it's hard to find proper connectors).
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 17, 2016 06:11AM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 268 |
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lkcl
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Koko76
"watch out for that, though: *don't* wrap the corexy belt through 180 degrees round GT2-16t's. put an idler bearing in (or two) so that the belt loops back on itself through 90 degrees instead."
Complete and total nonsense.
i believe i warned you before a couple of days ago, koko76, but let me be more clear: your words here are hurtful and cause me distress that you should use them in relation to some advice that i received and am merely relaying to another member of this community.
do you think that it is appropriate to be offensive and hurtful to other members of this community, and if so, why?
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I have >180 wrap on 15t GT2's Worked just fine for many hundreds of hours so far.
that's fine koko76 - if it works for you. i'm relaying realthor someone else's advice (from cozmicray) who is an extremely experienced engineer who reads up on manufacturer's advice and engineering datasheets. the advice specifically advises that belt angles should be minimised and that if they are absolutely necessary that a larger diameter should be used.
if you specifically choose to ignore manufacturer's recommendations that is entirely your choice but do NOT insult me or anyone else in this community by going around telling me or anyone else on this forum that following manufacturer's recommendations is "complete and utter nonsense".
have i made myself ABSOLUTELY clear?
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 17, 2016 06:19AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,035 |
Anonymous User
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 17, 2016 06:34AM |
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Koko76
You are not in the position to warn me about anything. There is not anything in a manufacturers recommendation matching what you say, you misunderstood the advice you are given, and ignorantly keep repeating it. The SDP-SI manual is more than passingly familiar to me.
As a matter of practical example I'd invite you to go take a look at how more than a few Delta printers function and utilize timing belts.
I build things professionally, and I make a fair living doing so. Companies pay me to make purpose built machines (among other things), to do something right the first time. I don't get 6 iterations of the floppy sandwich cart to get it right, mine has to work the first time, every time on workpieces that cost more than the average house. If that's not something you feel you can learn from, then find the ignore button.
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 17, 2016 06:36AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,035 |
Anonymous User
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 17, 2016 06:48AM |
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realthor
@MKSA you're not helping and this type of attitude is only perpetuating a tensed environment. What about some common sense in these forums ...
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 17, 2016 06:51AM |
Admin Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 13,978 |
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realthor
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VDX
... I've powered my first heated bed simply with a bare 12VAC@8A transformator (which gives roughly 16 to 14 Volts AC depending on load) and switched the current with an AC-SSR.
This can be done with any available transformator (found several from 5VAC@60A to 14000VAC@1mA in my scrapery), but for heated beds I'll avoid output powers above 50 Volts and currents greater than 20 Amps for safety reasons (and it's hard to find proper connectors).
You know what you're talking about, I couldn't understand half of it . I would venture in electronics but I don't know if it's smart to do that as a beginner. I think I'm going with an ATX power source (I have one around) and see from there. I believe there are good tutorials around the web how to use that (i've seen a good one but I can't seem to find it).
Here's the ATX one I can use:
[attachment 78241 IMG_20160517_122534.jpg]
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 17, 2016 07:56AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,035 |
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VDX
... here's a sketch to show the driving of a heated bed with a transformer and switching it with an AC-SSR (solid-state-relay):
[attachment 78242 HB-Test.png]
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 17, 2016 02:09PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 1,049 |
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lkcl
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Koko76
"watch out for that, though: *don't* wrap the corexy belt through 180 degrees round GT2-16t's. put an idler bearing in (or two) so that the belt loops back on itself through 90 degrees instead."
Complete and total nonsense.
i believe i warned you before a couple of days ago, koko76, but let me be more clear: your words here are hurtful and cause me distress that you should use them in relation to some advice that i received and am merely relaying to another member of this community.
do you think that it is appropriate to be offensive and hurtful to other members of this community, and if so, why?
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I have >180 wrap on 15t GT2's Worked just fine for many hundreds of hours so far.
that's fine koko76 - if it works for you. i'm relaying realthor someone else's advice (from cozmicray) who is an extremely experienced engineer who reads up on manufacturer's advice and engineering datasheets. the advice specifically advises that belt angles should be minimised and that if they are absolutely necessary that a larger diameter should be used.
if you specifically choose to ignore manufacturer's recommendations that is entirely your choice but do NOT insult me or anyone else in this community by going around telling me or anyone else on this forum that following manufacturer's recommendations is "complete and utter nonsense".
have i made myself ABSOLUTELY clear?
Anonymous User
Re: Is Nema17 1.2A too weak for 3d printing? May 17, 2016 02:34PM |
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cozmicray
ikcl There you go again
turning up manure spreader to high
It is only "offensive and hurtful " if the reader allows it to be
None of us here know if the comments are by experts, experienced users or just smoke blowers
....