Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 16, 2020 03:11AM
To exclude the possible reason of a slippery pulley on the stepper motor, you could take a marker and make a mark accross pulley and motor shaft, Then you would see immediately if the pulley slips when the layer error occurs. It is an unlikely reason, but the check is easy and inexpensive, so to be sure...

E.g. like image attached.

And there may also be a configuration problem (e.g. microstepping without interpolation), please post the config.g and make a M122 to check for reported hiccups after the layer shift occured.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2020 03:22AM by JoergS5.
Attachments:
open | download - marker.jpg (6.9 KB)
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 16, 2020 06:39PM
Quote
ruggb
This is what I used;
[www.aliexpress.com]

This is even simpler; but I didn't find it till after I installed the above.
[www.aliexpress.com]
It mounts under the driver if you have one of these, TMC2100 A4988 Drv8825
I can't vouch for this as I did not order any.

Those "smoothers" are not flyback diodes, as used to protect against back-emf from a relay or solenoid coil, and are a workaround for a weakness in some stepper drivers (at least the DRV8825, and maybe others), but not relevant to modern drivers like the new TMC drivers in the Duet 2 Maestro that dlc60 is using. I'm not sure where the earliest description of the problem is, but here's the best I know of:

[cabristor.blogspot.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2020 08:11PM by mcdanlj.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 16, 2020 07:19PM
bottom line, they work for me.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 16, 2020 11:28PM
Quote
mcdanlj
Quote
ruggb
This is what I used;
[www.aliexpress.com]

This is even simpler; but I didn't find it till after I installed the above.
[www.aliexpress.com]
It mounts under the driver if you have one of these, TMC2100 A4988 Drv8825
I can't vouch for this as I did not order any.

Those "smoothers" are not flyback diodes, as used to protect against back-emf from a relay or solenoid coil, and are a workaround for a weakness in some stepper drivers (at least the DRV8825, and maybe others), but not relevant to modern drivers like the new TMC drivers in the Duet 2 Maestro that dlc60 is using. I'm not sure where the earliest description of the problem is, but here's the best I know of:

[cabristor.blogspot.com]

THAT makes sense. We often use diodes to bias a voltage down to adjust a current level. But the Duet 2 is a modern device which uses the TMC2224 driver, I would think this solved the problem by now. Anyone out there have to use this hack to get their Duet 2 to behave? My board developed the problem, it didn't start with it. Here is my config.g file, if anyone can see if I did something wrong, please tell me!
; Configuration file for Duet Maestro (firmware version 3)
; executed by the firmware on start-up
;
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v3.1.1 on Thu Jun 04 2020 20:04:14 GMT-0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)

; General preferences
G90                                                    ; send absolute coordinates...
M83                                                    ; ...but relative extruder moves
M550 P"MiniCoreXY"                                     ; set printer name
M669 K1                                                ; select CoreXY mode
M918 P1 E-4 F2000000                                   ; configure direct-connect display

; Network
M551 P""                                         ; set password
M552 P0.0.0.0 S1                                       ; enable network and acquire dynamic address via DHCP
M586 P0 S1                                             ; enable HTTP
M586 P1 S0                                             ; disable FTP
M586 P2 S0                                             ; disable Telnet

; Drives
M569 P0 S0                                             ; physical drive 0 goes backwards
M569 P1 S1                                             ; physical drive 1 goes forwards
M569 P2 S0                                             ; physical drive 2 goes backwards
M569 P3 S0                                             ; physical drive 3 goes backwards
M584 X0 Y1 Z2 E3                                       ; set drive mapping
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1                                ; configure microstepping with interpolation
M92 X80.00 Y80.00 Z400.00 E420.00                      ; set steps per mm
M566 X300.00 Y300.00 Z12.00 E120.00                    ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X6000.00 Y6000.00 Z180.00 E1200.00                ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X200.00 Y200.00 Z20.00 E250.00                    ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M906 X800 Y800 Z800 E800 I50                           ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
M84 S30                                                ; Set idle timeout

; Axis Limits
M208 X0 Y0 Z0 S1                                       ; set axis minima
M208 X155 Y200 Z180 S0                                 ; set axis maxima

; Endstops
M574 X1 S1 P"!xstop"                                   ; configure active-high endstop for low end on X via pin !xstop
M574 Y1 S1 P"!ystop"                                   ; configure active-high endstop for low end on Y via pin !ystop
M574 Z1 S1 P"!zstop"                                   ; configure active-high endstop for low end on Z via pin !zstop

; Z-Probe
M558 P0 H5 F120 T6000                                  ; disable Z probe but set dive height, probe speed and travel speed
M557 X15:155 Y15:195 S20                               ; define mesh grid

; Heaters
M308 S0 P"bedtemp" Y"thermistor" T100000 B3950         ; configure sensor 0 as thermistor on pin bedtemp
M950 H0 C"bedheat" T0                                  ; create bed heater output on bedheat and map it to sensor 0
M307 H0 B1 S1.00                                       ; enable bang-bang mode for the bed heater and set PWM limit
M140 H0                                                ; map heated bed to heater 0
M143 H0 S100                                           ; set temperature limit for heater 0 to 100C
M307 H0 B1 A103.3 C481.9 D3.0 V11.7 P0.8			   ; bed tuned values

M308 S1 P"e0temp" Y"thermistor" T100000 B4725 C7.06e-8 ; configure sensor 1 as thermistor on pin e0temp
M950 H1 C"e0heat" T1                                   ; create nozzle heater output on e0heat and map it to sensor 1
M307 H1 B0 S1.00 A911.9 C295.5 D4.2 V11.9              ; disable bang-bang mode for heater  and set PWM limit and PID tune values

; Fans
M950 F0 C"fan0" Q500                                   ; create fan 0 on pin fan0 and set its frequency
M106 P0 S0 H-1                                         ; set fan 0 value. Thermostatic control is turned off
M950 F1 C"fan1" Q500                                   ; create fan 1 on pin fan1 and set its frequency
M106 P1 S0 H-1                                         ; set fan 1 value. Thermostatic control is turned off

; Tools
M563 P0 D0 H1 F0                                       ; define tool 0
G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0                                        ; set tool 0 axis offsets
G10 P0 R0 S0                                           ; set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C

; Custom settings are not defined


DLC

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2020 11:28PM by dlc60.


Kits: Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head, TronXY X5SA Pro(E3Dv6).
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, exchangeable heads, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta, 220x220CoreXY.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 17, 2020 01:30AM
The config.g looks ok IMHO. The motor currents are a bit low, but should be ok.

An M122 when the problem appears again would be the next I recommend.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2020 01:51AM by JoergS5.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 17, 2020 02:10AM
Quote
JoergS5
The config.g looks ok IMHO. The motor currents are a bit low, but should be ok.

An M122 when the problem appears again would be the next I recommend.

I will do that. Right now I have removed the board from its enclosure, unbound all of the cables and spread them out, like I had them before I dressed the cables in a spiral wrap and put everything in the enclosure. So far I am 3.1mm through a 10mm complex and fairly large print. Further than it has gone in over a week without a goof up. We shall see how it turns out.

DLC


Kits: Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head, TronXY X5SA Pro(E3Dv6).
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, exchangeable heads, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta, 220x220CoreXY.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 17, 2020 10:03AM
Well, pulling everything apart and having it open worked, for a while, longer than the last several runs. I did the M122. No hiccups, didn't see anything that said errors, two of the stepper drivers said they had 1 timeout. I canceled the print 2hours and 17 minutes in (which is where the large layer shift occurred), would that reset all of the diagnostics about the print? When I canceled the print, the firmware homed, but while the X got to the switch, the Y did not, it "gronked" but didn't get there. When I turned off the motors, the carriage moved to the Y stop. Wonder what happened?

Before this print, I checked all of the stepper wires, they are all intact and all of the pins are well crimped on good heavy wire, not the flimsy cheap stepper wires.

I am going to loosen all the set screws on the steppers so that the pulleys free-wheel, there MUST be a mechanical problem, but it is intermittent and only appears to happen on large prints, so maybe at the furthest belt extension? There is a surprising amount of drag in this system with all those pulleys and idlers - I'd wondered about the tortured path for CoreXY systems, now I know. I find that there is some kind of "catch" in the diagonal path in the direction of the the layer shift that does not exist in the other diagonal path. It isn't much, but it is different and I provide a lot more torque with my arm than the stepper probably does. This may be what I am looking for. I have ordered some flanged bearings to replace the idlers as DD suggested. I will have to redesign the carriage idler supports to hold the wider belt path, no big deal.

DLC

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2020 10:25AM by dlc60.


Kits: Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head, TronXY X5SA Pro(E3Dv6).
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, exchangeable heads, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta, 220x220CoreXY.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 17, 2020 10:42AM
The movement to Y after motors are disabled might be indicating an interaction between motors, or maybe a mechanical issue.

Try this, it may help to isolate it.
If it homes X and Y independently, both motors need to run for each home. If one motor stops b4 it gets to Y0, the other will gronk.
If you enable quick_home and place the carriage at X=100, Y=100, then home it, what happens?

With = steps/mm X and Y should get to home at the same time with only 1 motor driving it.

Then try homing from X=100, Y=50. With quick_home the 1st 50 should get to Y0 and X50 with 1 motor then both motors to X0

Then try homing from X=50, Y=100. With quick_home the 1st 50 should get to X0 and Y50 with 1 motor then both motors to Y0

Then try homing from X=0, Y=100. This is 2 motors to Y0

Then try homing from X=100, Y=0. This is 2 motors to X0

At this point, you might have a better clue.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 17, 2020 02:08PM
Quote
ruggb
The movement to Y after motors are disabled might be indicating an interaction between motors, or maybe a mechanical issue.

Try this, it may help to isolate it.
If it homes X and Y independently, both motors need to run for each home. If one motor stops b4 it gets to Y0, the other will gronk.
If you enable quick_home and place the carriage at X=100, Y=100, then home it, what happens?

With = steps/mm X and Y should get to home at the same time with only 1 motor driving it.

Then try homing from X=100, Y=50. With quick_home the 1st 50 should get to Y0 and X50 with 1 motor then both motors to X0

Then try homing from X=50, Y=100. With quick_home the 1st 50 should get to X0 and Y50 with 1 motor then both motors to Y0

Then try homing from X=0, Y=100. This is 2 motors to Y0

Then try homing from X=100, Y=0. This is 2 motors to X0

At this point, you might have a better clue.

I have tried that, but here is the rub. This homing behavior ONLY happens after the print has goofed up and I cancel it. After that there are no homing problems, so it is pretty difficult to troubleshoot the problem when it is a one-off and only at some random time that is out of my control (currently). Your sequence is more thorough than mine, I will try it next.

DLC


Kits: Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head, TronXY X5SA Pro(E3Dv6).
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, exchangeable heads, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta, 220x220CoreXY.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 17, 2020 05:01PM
Maybe the problem is that the movement get stuck somewhere. Example see attachment. If possible, I would capture a video and analyze in at the time where the layer shift occurs. Did you make the marker test with pulley-to-shaft? Because if something stucks, the big jerk could slip the pulley and changes firmware's position information.

I would take M122 after the layer shift occured, and you can show it, there are other parameters than hiccups which may be interesting also for analyze (just black out SSID, username, password etc.)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2020 05:15PM by JoergS5.
Attachments:
open | download - Clipboard01.jpg (9 KB)
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 17, 2020 10:08PM
OK, let's assume it is getting stuck. It should make some strange noise when it does. Either the pulley is slipping on the motor shaft or the motor is overpowering the belt and skipping over some grooves.

If it isn't making a different sound, then the motor is just stopping - which would be even harder to explain.

Have you tried slicing it in a different position or at an angle? That might yield a clue.


Just thought of something.
All my idlers are simple smooth bearings. The only geared ones I have are the ones on the motors. Yours are all geared. What if those are not in exactly the right place and the belt doesn't mesh properly. It could raise the belt and tighten it enough to stop the motor, MAYBE?? then again MAYBE not?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2020 10:17PM by ruggb.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 17, 2020 11:45PM
Quote
ruggb
OK, let's assume it is getting stuck. It should make some strange noise when it does. Either the pulley is slipping on the motor shaft or the motor is overpowering the belt and skipping over some grooves.

If it isn't making a different sound, then the motor is just stopping - which would be even harder to explain.

Have you tried slicing it in a different position or at an angle? That might yield a clue.


Just thought of something.
All my idlers are simple smooth bearings. The only geared ones I have are the ones on the motors. Yours are all geared. What if those are not in exactly the right place and the belt doesn't mesh properly. It could raise the belt and tighten it enough to stop the motor, MAYBE?? then again MAYBE not?

I always felt that having teeth ride on smooth generates vibration, better to teeth to even things out without "banging" on the idler. DD has convinced me that I am overthinking things. I will replace all my toothed idlers (which is most of them) with smooth and see what happens - WTH, its easy, so why not? I am waiting for better flanged bearings to come and use them for idlers...

It's worth a try!

EDIT
OK, replacing the toothed idlers with smooth ones made tracking significantly smoother. The system runs quieter and the "notchy" feeling is almost gone. I have started a "flexy ankylasaurus" model, one that is large enough and a layer shift is super obvious, to see how it goes. It is a long print with my current accel and jerk settings. Plenty of time to goof up. I will report my findings.

DLC

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2020 12:19AM by dlc60.


Kits: Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head, TronXY X5SA Pro(E3Dv6).
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, exchangeable heads, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta, 220x220CoreXY.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 18, 2020 01:28AM
No dice. Got a layer shift. And, as always seems to happen, Y did not fully home but X did.
M122 gives me this, which I don't really know how to read.
6/17/2020, 11:17:10 PM 	M122
=== Diagnostics ===
RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 Maestro version 3.1.1 running on Duet Maestro 1.0
Board ID: 08DAM-9F9GA-J24TD-6J1DJ-3SS6K-KR1AV
Used output buffers: 3 of 24 (20 max)
=== RTOS ===
Static ram: 21924
Dynamic ram: 95296 of which 52 recycled
Exception stack ram used: 408
Never used ram: 13392
Tasks: NETWORK(ready,408) HEAT(blocked,1316) MAIN(running,1848) IDLE(ready,84)
Owned mutexes:
=== Platform ===
Last reset 01:10:31 ago, cause: software
Last software reset at 2020-06-17 22:06, reason: User, spinning module GCodes, available RAM 13604 bytes (slot 0)
Software reset code 0x0003 HFSR 0x00000000 CFSR 0x00000000 ICSR 0x0400f000 BFAR 0xe000ed38 SP 0xffffffff Task MAIN
Error status: 0
MCU temperature: min 29.7, current 36.7, max 37.1
Supply voltage: min 0.0, current 12.0, max 12.1, under voltage events: 0, over voltage events: 0, power good: yes
Driver 0: standstill, read errors 0, write errors 1, ifcount 19, reads 38087, timeouts 0
Driver 1: standstill, read errors 0, write errors 1, ifcount 19, reads 38087, timeouts 0
Driver 2: standstill, read errors 0, write errors 1, ifcount 21, reads 38085, timeouts 0
Driver 3: standstill, read errors 0, write errors 1, ifcount 17, reads 38089, timeouts 0
Driver 4: standstill, read errors 0, write errors 1, ifcount 13, reads 38092, timeouts 0
Driver 5: ok, read errors 0, write errors 0, ifcount 0, reads 0, timeouts 38099
Driver 6: ok, read errors 0, write errors 0, ifcount 0, reads 0, timeouts 38098
Date/time: 2020-06-17 23:17:08
Slowest loop: 113.99ms; fastest: 0.12ms
I2C nak errors 0, send timeouts 0, receive timeouts 0, finishTimeouts 0, resets 0
=== Storage ===
Free file entries: 10
SD card 0 detected, interface speed: 15.0MBytes/sec
SD card longest read time 2.0ms, write time 77.0ms, max retries 0
=== Move ===
Hiccups: 0(0), FreeDm: 169, MinFreeDm: 139, MaxWait: 336051ms
Bed compensation in use: none, comp offset 0.000
=== MainDDARing ===
Scheduled moves: 25901, completed moves: 25901, StepErrors: 0, LaErrors: 0, Underruns: 0, 0  CDDA state: -1
=== AuxDDARing ===
Scheduled moves: 0, completed moves: 0, StepErrors: 0, LaErrors: 0, Underruns: 0, 0  CDDA state: -1
=== Heat ===
Bed heaters = 0 -1, chamberHeaters = -1 -1
Heater 0 is on, I-accum = 0.0
Heater 1 is on, I-accum = 0.4
=== GCodes ===
Segments left: 0
Movement lock held by null
HTTP is idle in state(s) 0
Telnet is idle in state(s) 0
File is idle in state(s) 0
USB is idle in state(s) 0
Aux is idle in state(s) 0
Trigger is idle in state(s) 0
Queue is idle in state(s) 0
LCD is idle in state(s) 0
Daemon is idle in state(s) 0
Autopause is idle in state(s) 0
Code queue is empty.
=== Network ===
Slowest loop: 32.53ms; fastest: 0.02ms
Responder states: HTTP(0) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) FTP(0) Telnet(0), 0 sessions
HTTP sessions: 2 of 8
Interface state active, link 100Mbps full duplex

It looks like all of the drivers got a write error somewhere, is that significant? I am beginning to wonder what kind of fools errand I am on here. My cables and connectors check out fine. I am continually improving and tuning the mechanics, and now they feel pretty smooth. I have the board cooled by a fan and am not pushing the limits of anything that I can see. However, nothing has changed what happens: at some random point in a print larger than some unknown amount, I start getting layer shifts, and keep getting them at random times until the print finishes. If I cancel the print, X will home but Y will not. This is starting to look like an electronics failure that occurs after something heats up. It is kind of an expensive board to just replace.

Hmm,
DLC


Kits: Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head, TronXY X5SA Pro(E3Dv6).
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, exchangeable heads, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta, 220x220CoreXY.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 18, 2020 02:30AM
The reason why I ask for M122 and hiccups so many times is the thread [forum.duet3d.com]

But you have a very differect firmware version and no hiccups, so it seems not to be a similar reason. He had write errors at the drivers also, however.

My biggest bet would be on the supply voltage min 0.0 volt, but I'm not sure why (and when) this happened. But there is no undervoltage event, so this maybe a value while startup.

BTW I checked the firmware source: the error "write errors" come from the TMC2224 chip, reading the content of the IFCOUNT register. In the TMC datasheet is no documentation if this register, to know the details, one would need to dig deeper. What is strange, is that the write errors occour at every driver, so this seems to be an event which concerns the whole board.

I am out of ideas now, sorry.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2020 03:07AM by JoergS5.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 18, 2020 10:34AM
Quote
JoergS5
The reason why I ask for M122 and hiccups so many times is the thread [forum.duet3d.com]

But you have a very differect firmware version and no hiccups, so it seems not to be a similar reason. He had write errors at the drivers also, however.

My biggest bet would be on the supply voltage min 0.0 volt, but I'm not sure why (and when) this happened. But there is no undervoltage event, so this maybe a value while startup.

BTW I checked the firmware source: the error "write errors" come from the TMC2224 chip, reading the content of the IFCOUNT register. In the TMC datasheet is no documentation if this register, to know the details, one would need to dig deeper. What is strange, is that the write errors occour at every driver, so this seems to be an event which concerns the whole board.

I am out of ideas now, sorry.

Hey, thanks for the suggestions anyway. I know more about the system than I did before.
During all of this I have been in the next room when I hear a "clunking" and went to see the layer shift. This last time I did not hear any clunk when the layer shift occurred, maybe the smooth idlers don't have that side-effect. I have a replacement stepper coming that matches the system because I thought that I heard a click coming from one - I do not know if that is the case now, but I can swap the stepper in to see if something is wrong with one of them. I also have a set of those voltage drop boards coming to test with - I seriously doubt that they will do anything, but they are an inexpensive test board so it was worth the $11 to rule that out.
After this, I am out of ideas and will try another controller board, which would be a bummer.

EDIT
Well, predictably, the "smoothers" did nothing but make the system louder. I am now out of ideas.

DLC

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2020 11:33PM by dlc60.


Kits: Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head, TronXY X5SA Pro(E3Dv6).
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, exchangeable heads, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta, 220x220CoreXY.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 19, 2020 02:12AM
Have you tried connecting the Y motor to the E1 motor output yet, to rule out a problem with the driver?



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 19, 2020 12:31PM
Interesting

EDIT
Well, predictably, the "smoothers" did nothing but make the system louder. I am now out of ideas.

is the noise coming from the motors?
On mine, they quieted the motors significantly.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 19, 2020 08:07PM
Quote
ruggb
Interesting

EDIT
Well, predictably, the "smoothers" did nothing but make the system louder. I am now out of ideas.

is the noise coming from the motors?
On mine, they quieted the motors significantly.

Overall system. I saw no change in anything with these. I didn't really expect to, but it was worth a try.

DLC


Kits: Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head, TronXY X5SA Pro(E3Dv6).
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, exchangeable heads, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta, 220x220CoreXY.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 19, 2020 08:10PM
Quote
dc42
Have you tried connecting the Y motor to the E1 motor output yet, to rule out a problem with the driver?
I do not see a way to do that in the configurator. How do I reassign Y to E1?
EDIT
Never mind, I found it.

DLC

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2020 08:11PM by dlc60.


Kits: Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head, TronXY X5SA Pro(E3Dv6).
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, exchangeable heads, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta, 220x220CoreXY.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 19, 2020 08:36PM
Quote
dlc60
Quote
dc42
Have you tried connecting the Y motor to the E1 motor output yet, to rule out a problem with the driver?
I do not see a way to do that in the configurator. How do I reassign Y to E1?
EDIT
Never mind, I found it.

DLC

But, no matter how I set P4, the stepper goes the wrong way. The configurator doesn't do anything different. How should I set this then?
EDIT
What happens is that the X stepper does not move (I think it is X that is stalling). This is the motors section of config.g
; Drives
M569 P4 S0                                     ; physical drive 4 goes backwards
M569 P1 S1                                     ; physical drive 1 goes forwards
M569 P2 S0                                     ; physical drive 2 goes backwards
M569 P3 S0                                     ; physical drive 3 goes backwards
M584 X4 Y1 Z2 E3                               ; set drive mapping
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1                        ; configure microstepping with interpolation
M92 X80.00 Y80.00 Z4000.00 E420.00             ; set steps per mm
M566 X900.00 Y900.00 Z12.00 E120.00            ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X6000.00 Y6000.00 Z180.00 E1200.00        ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X500.00 Y500.00 Z20.00 E250.00            ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M906 X800 Y800 Z800 E800 I30                   ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
M84 S30                                        ; Set idle timeout


thanks,
DLC

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2020 08:59PM by dlc60.


Kits: Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head, TronXY X5SA Pro(E3Dv6).
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, exchangeable heads, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta, 220x220CoreXY.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 19, 2020 09:02PM
Oh for pity sake. I moved the wrong stepper wire. :|

I am running a print now to see if this fixes or changes things.

Thanks for the reminder,

DLC


Kits: Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head, TronXY X5SA Pro(E3Dv6).
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, exchangeable heads, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta, 220x220CoreXY.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 19, 2020 10:08PM
Quote
dlc60
Quote
ruggb
Interesting

EDIT
Well, predictably, the "smoothers" did nothing but make the system louder. I am now out of ideas.

is the noise coming from the motors?
On mine, they quieted the motors significantly.

Overall system. I saw no change in anything with these. I didn't really expect to, but it was worth a try.

DLC
You said it made the system louder, so I was wondering where the noise was coming from.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 19, 2020 10:51PM
Quote
dlc60
Oh for pity sake. I moved the wrong stepper wire. :|

I am running a print now to see if this fixes or changes things.

Thanks for the reminder,

DLC

Moving to another motor port did not help. Time to consider new steppers.

DLC


Kits: Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head, TronXY X5SA Pro(E3Dv6).
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, exchangeable heads, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta, 220x220CoreXY.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 19, 2020 11:17PM
What kind of steppers do you have now? Basic specs....


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 20, 2020 02:25AM
Quote
the_digital_dentist
What kind of steppers do you have now? Basic specs....
17HD48002H-22B Nema 17 Stepper Motor 1.7 A, 0.59 Nm
I am driving them at 1.0 Amp, I tried driving at 1.3A but the motors got pretty hot, pretty fast, seems like they shouldn't have though since they are rated at 1.7Amp. These seem plenty strong enough.
I let the pulleys free-wheel on the stepper shafts and moved the mechanism in all directions and it is smooth and doesn't catch on anything. So it seems like the belts and the carriage are OK.
I am using smooth idlers, which I admit are cheap Chinese items, but they seem like they are fine, I bought some flanged bearings to eventually replace them with, but that will require re-engineering the carriages with the idlers on them. No big deal, but not done yet since I cannot find anything wrong with the setup that I am currently using.
The layer shift (pictures further up the string) happen one or more times at random layers. Sometimes it is the second layer, sometimes the 10th, sometimes three times before the 20th layer. When the layer shift occurs, something else goes wrong because a home of the X and Y will home X, but Y will not go all the way. If I disable the motors, everything moves to the endstops manually just fine.

I just don't get it. It worked brilliantly for about 2 weeks, then this. I have been checking, tweaking and experimenting for two weeks with nothing to show for the effort.
I have run out of ideas.

DLC


Kits: Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head, TronXY X5SA Pro(E3Dv6).
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, exchangeable heads, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta, 220x220CoreXY.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 20, 2020 01:38PM
OH, BTW, "
"but the motors got pretty hot, pretty fast,"
one of the things the diodes did for me was significantly reduce the motor heat generated.

Have you tried moving the Y endstop out 2x the distance it lacks to get to Y0?
That may give you another clue. H/W might then be more of a suspect. Though it may still might possibly be s/w, but I don't know how.

IMHO, since most everything is "Made in China", the only thing "cheap" about it, is you bought it direct and skipped the USA middlemen. At least that is what I do.

My steppers are KL17H248-15-4A, 76 oz-in units and were pretty reasonable. I think it came out to about $8. ea for 6. Price drop between 5 and 6 mainly because of shipping. The 6th one was $4.00
check it out.
[www.automationtechnologiesinc.com]
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 20, 2020 03:52PM
Quote
dlc60
Oh for pity sake. I moved the wrong stepper wire. :|

I am running a print now to see if this fixes or changes things.

Thanks for the reminder,

DLC

Using the E2 port acted the same as using the X or the Y port, moved each of them to check. That wasn't it.

DLC


Kits: Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head, TronXY X5SA Pro(E3Dv6).
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, exchangeable heads, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta, 220x220CoreXY.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 20, 2020 04:09PM
Did you ever physically swap the A/B steppers to see whether the problem followed the axis or the stepper?
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 20, 2020 05:04PM
I was actually able to be right there when the problem happened this time. The hot end was striking plastic, like the Z had not dropped to the next level.
This is a completely different kind of problem. I wonder why it always shifts the same direction? Maybe that belt is looser or that stepper is just a little weaker...
This is why my exercise program showed no issue, it drops the Z about 5mm and then jams the X/Y directions around. I need to add a Z movement section to the test.

DLC


Kits: Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head, TronXY X5SA Pro(E3Dv6).
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, exchangeable heads, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta, 220x220CoreXY.
Re: Intermittant diagonal layer shift, how to diagnose?
June 20, 2020 09:41PM
I think there's something wrong with the Z axis if the nozzle is banging into the print hard enough to cause layers to shift.


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
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