Is this a good deal?

Been looking for ramps and saw this, but my mother always told me. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is

[www.ebay.com]

Is the sanguinolou inferior to the ramps 1.4?

Downsides of Sanguinololu vs RAMPS - you don't get the fifth stepper driver, and you don't get as much exposed IO. So if you want to build some experimental reprap, go for RAMPS. If you just want to run a standard reprap, RAMPS costs more but doesn't gain you anything.

The 644 chip on the Sanguinololu is too small to upload Marlin with the SD and LCD enabled. It then requires a 1284p chip and extra work.

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FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

You can but them with 1284P already installed though.[www.emakershop.com]

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

I would say it's not a good deal. The item costs $94.09 and shipping is $45.49 (really?) for a total of $139.58. I got my full RAMPS 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + 5 stepper drivers with heatsinks + cables + 12v cooling fan for $112 (including shipping). RAMPS is a lot more fun from experience as you have a lot more IO to mess around with, giving you options such as dual extruders, extra cooling fans, LED's, LCD screen controllers, SDRAMPS, and so much more.

---

--

Charles S.
Software Engineer
Prusa Mendel I2, RAMPS 1.4, Marlin 1.0 R2, Pronterface, Slic3r

nophead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can but them with 1284P already installed
> though.[www.emakershop.com]
> 174

True but it costs almost as much as a Ramps 1.4 with 5 drivers, SDramps, Mega 2560 and wiring kit from RepRapDiscount.

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FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

True but they are counterfeit. I.e. have the Arduino logo and made in Italy on them. Also they have clones of the original Pololu PCB, which is not open source. Cheap but technically you could be prosecuted for importing them.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

thats a nice deal, where did you get it?

LOL my arduino is lost in the mail

Lodorenos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would say it's not a good deal. The item costs
> $94.09 and shipping is $45.49 (really?) for a
> total of $139.58. I got my full RAMPS 1.4 +
> Arduino Mega 2560 + 5 stepper drivers with
> heatsinks + cables + 12v cooling fan for $112
> (including shipping). RAMPS is a lot more fun from
> experience as you have a lot more IO to mess
> around with, giving you options such as dual
> extruders, extra cooling fans, LED's, LCD screen
> controllers, SDRAMPS, and so much more.

redreprap Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thats a nice deal, where did you get it?
>
> LOL my arduino is lost in the mail


From this eBay seller: [myworld.ebay.com]

It seems their price has gone up by $20 or so.

The board is not genuine Arduino but it works just fine.

---

--

Charles S.
Software Engineer
Prusa Mendel I2, RAMPS 1.4, Marlin 1.0 R2, Pronterface, Slic3r

nophead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> True but they are counterfeit. I.e. have the
> Arduino logo and made in Italy on them. Also they
> have clones of the original Pololu PCB, which is
> not open source. Cheap but technically you could
> be prosecuted for importing them.

They never claim to be real Arduinos and do not say Made in Italy on them they say designed in Italy like every other Arduino clone. The driver boards do not have any artwork from Pololu on them and as far as I understand it unless they have a patent on them the only thing they have rights to is the artwork.

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FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Okay, so ramps it is. who has the best price? I need it pre-soldered and complete ready to run (minus stepper motors and firmware), any good supplier inside europe (just to avoid dealing with taxes on importing from 'merica)

Asger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, so ramps it is. who has the best price? I
> need it pre-soldered and complete ready to run
> (minus stepper motors and firmware), any good
> supplier inside europe (just to avoid dealing with
> taxes on importing from 'merica)


I bought mine from these guys: [myworld.ebay.com]
They are completely presoldered (depending on the kit you buy) for under $150.
My Prusa i2 uses it, and it works as it should.

Side note: Shipping from China to The Netherlands took 3 days. o.O

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--

Charles S.
Software Engineer
Prusa Mendel I2, RAMPS 1.4, Marlin 1.0 R2, Pronterface, Slic3r

Sublime Wrote:
> They never claim to be real Arduinos and do not
> say Made in Italy on them they say designed in
> Italy like every other Arduino clone. The driver
> boards do not have any artwork from Pololu on them
> and as far as I understand it unless they have a
> patent on them the only thing they have rights to
> is the artwork.

Sorry but the samples they sent me look like this:



It does say made in Italy and has the Arduino logo, which I don't think is allowed.



This looks like the Pololu artwork on the right, which I think would be subject to copyright.



Also this looks suspiciously like 0 ohms for the sense resistors. I don't have a meter that will resolve 0.05R and I haven't tried them yet.

Easy things to put right with a little effort.

The worrying thing is the components look hand placed rather than machine placed.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2012 11:35AM by nophead.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

Guys Im not trying to sound like a salesman or anything but wanted to let you know that there are alternatives out there that are pretty close to that price or maybe even cheaper if you consider their shipping cost($45) and they perform considerably better.

Look at my sig for for info on the Azteeg Controllers. Something you might want to consider.

royco

Occupation: lawyer?

Sublime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> nophead Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > True but they are counterfeit. I.e. have the
> > Arduino logo and made in Italy on them. Also
> they
> > have clones of the original Pololu PCB, which
> is
> > not open source. Cheap but technically you
> could
> > be prosecuted for importing them.
>
> They never claim to be real Arduinos and do not
> say Made in Italy on them they say designed in
> Italy like every other Arduino clone. The driver
> boards do not have any artwork from Pololu on them
> and as far as I understand it unless they have a
> patent on them the only thing they have rights to
> is the artwork.

i got my ramps from reprap discount. USD90+ 12shipping. this guy shipping is fast, 3 days. i got the 1 with wire bundles.
my arduino (i ttink its a cloner) is only USD22, but its lost LOL. so lets see if it goes around the world to get to my mailbox.

i think i will be better off getting the full kit set from some vendor with good shipping hahaha.

i saw some azteeg implementations, and i went to look at the scehmatics etc, i cant find much info on it and the last i tried the main azteeg web is down

Lodorenos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> redreprap Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > thats a nice deal, where did you get it?
> >
> > LOL my arduino is lost in the mail
>
>
> From this eBay seller:
> [myworld.ebay.com]
>
> It seems their price has gone up by $20 or so.
>
> The board is not genuine Arduino but it works just
> fine.

In general, PCB artwork is not copyrightable, as it is regarded as functional requirement, not creative. I know it is traditional to put "Copyright xxx" on PCB, but it has no legal meaning. Logos or trade names that are trademarked are protected, and "passing off" is also illegal. Although they have blatantly copied the polulu design, it is not illegal as they have removed trademarked names, and if they do not describe is as a Polulu driver. Anyway, it now seems they are supplying Stepsticks which are open source.

If they are copying the Arduino without license that is more clearly illegal, since they are using Arduino logos and name.

Apart from the legality, it looks like the sort of shoddy rip-off that we expect from low end Chinese suppliers. China is actually one of the few countries making it illegal to copy a PCB, but no one there takes any notice of it.

I hear plenty of bad stories about cheap Chinese electronics from CNC guys. Whether because of the dubious morality or because of poor quality of these boards, I would avoid them. There are plenty of decent quality, honest suppliers who can provide alternatives.

@redreprap

Here are the links to the Azteeg X1 that you might find helpful or just ask away if you have questions.

Azteeg X1 Wiki page

Main Azteeg X1 webpage

royco

nophead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry but the samples they sent me look like
> this:

> It does say made in Italy and has the Arduino
> logo, which I don't think is allowed.

Strange. I ordered twenty kits and they say designed in Italy (see attached pic). Are you sure yours is not a real Arduino? I know I cleaned him out of stock for a while.

> This looks like the Pololu artwork on the right,
> which I think would be subject to copyright.

> Also this looks suspiciously like 0 ohms for the
> sense resistors. I don't have a meter that will
> resolve 0.05R and I haven't tried them yet.
>
> Easy things to put right with a little effort.
>
> The worrying thing is the components look hand
> placed rather than machine placed.

True they do look like they are hand placed but when you look at a whole set (see attached pic) they are all the same way, every component is off the same amount. I wonder if they just have a really crappy pick and place machine or actually doing it by hand.

Either way they are hundreds of times better than some I purchased out of the US. The ones I purchased from US were unusable and the worst assembled boards I have ever seen. Others I know have purchased boards from Canada (were I live) and they were extremely low quality. I have not found anywhere else that has boards that are assembled this well at this price. The board I purchased from Ultimachine two years ago was the only other board of quality I have used but he charges an arm and a leg for them.

I am not trying to say that everyone should purchase from him. I just wanted to share my experience.

Use whatever you feel is best.

EDIT: I forgot to attach the second picture

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2012 05:28PM by Sublime.

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FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

If the mega is 1/2 less than the price of the real Arduino Mega then yeah its a clone. The Arduino team was vigorously taking down those ebay auctions for clones using the Arduino logo in the past. I guess they just gave up. My first controller was a RAMPS kit and I couldnt tell if the Mega was the real thing or not(well it must have been a clone judging by the kit's price). It was well made.

Sublime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Strange. I ordered twenty kits and they say
> designed in Italy (see attached pic). Are you sure
> yours is not a real Arduino? I know I cleaned him
> out of stock for a while.

It could be I suppose. It would be odd to send a free sample that was bought in from Italy. I didn't ask for it, so they could have waited until they had some more.

Just changing to "Design in Italy", apart from being incorrect English, is not sufficient if you read the Arduino site. Arduino and the logo are trademarks. And are they really carbon neutral?

Have you got Pololus with 000 sense resistors? have you tried them?


> True they do look like they are hand placed but
> when you look at a whole set (see attached pic)
> they are all the same way, every component is off
> the same amount. I wonder if they just have a
> really crappy pick and place machine or actually
> doing it by hand.

Mine have some variation so I doubt they are machine placed.

>
> I am not trying to say that everyone should
> purchase from him. I just wanted to share my
> experience.
>
> Use whatever you feel is best.

For an individual it isn't much of an issue but for a company importing counterfeit goods is illegal. A tip off to trading standards could get them all seized. It irks me that staying within the law and puts Western companies at a disadvantage to Chinese companies that completely ignore it.

---

[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

nophead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just changing to "Design in Italy", apart from
> being incorrect English, is not sufficient if you
> read the Arduino site. Arduino and the logo are
> trademarks. And are they really carbon neutral?

I believe you but I can not find any official info on it on the Arduino site. In the FAQ's it state the name Arduino is theirs but does not talk about the logo at all. Although now that you mention it the Logo on my board does have a TM mark above the log which does indicate that it is violating the Trade mark which is not good.

>
> Have you got Pololus with 000 sense resistors?
> have you tried them?

Yes I personally have two machines (8 drivers) that I use every day that have the 000 resistors and I have not had any issues. What problems could they cause?

> Mine have some variation so I doubt they are
> machine placed.

Good to know.

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

/* rant begin

I prefer not to use slave labor whenever possible.

MEGA 2560 from Mouser is $40
The Ultimachine DIY RAMPS kit is $65 with pre-soldered SMD's (or learn to reflow it yourself and save $15)
4 pololu's will run you around $60 (wish I could get the PCB's - I'd reflow them myself)

$165 + shipping and a little work by you = something that you had a hand in actually making. I prefer that to buying it off the shelf and using it plug n' play. How boring is that. At that point why not just say screw reprap and buy an UP! or a Cube. Probably would be easier. And if the results are the same who cares?

My point is that this community shouldn't just be about extruding plastic - it should be educating itself how to build its own tools rather than consistently taking the easy way out and buying them. Learning stuff is hard. Tramflung pushed in this direction with some success. And now royco has put out what looks like a very solid controller. I want to build one of his myself (hopefully he'll sell me a bare PCB ). Maybe I'm an anomaly.

Maybe I'll clone the Pololu PCB and start making them for myself.

end of rant */

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

For what its worth I got the reprapdiscounts ramps 1.4 ultimate kit with smart controller and heatbed.

The boards look and work great.

The "not pololu's" are a little different to adjust, and I found needed adjusting from via to ground to about the 100mV range rather than 400mV as shown in the wiki.

I have always found the mark of a good supplier is not how quickly they take your money, but how quickly they fix things that have gone wrong. I had issues with a couple of my stepper drivers. The guy from reprap discounts is active on this forum and answers pm's quickly, and has already sent me replacements within 24 hrs of letting him know of the issues. Postage fronm this seller was less than a week to Australia.

Overall I am happy with both the price and quality of parts supplied by reprapdiscounts, and the service provided.

GaZ

That implies the trace resistance plus the zero ohm link makes about 0.0125R!

---

[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

agree with some points of ur rant

1 of these days i will pick up that discount hot air soldering gun from ebay and make a new "Pooolulu" LOL ... cos i think the driver would do well with a redesigned on better heatsink location, current drive capability, etc ... hmm maybe i should pick up some L298 and try them too

akhlut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> /* rant begin
>
> I prefer not to use slave labor whenever possible.
>
>
> MEGA 2560 from Mouser is $40
> The Ultimachine DIY RAMPS kit is $65 with
> pre-soldered SMD's (or learn to reflow it yourself
> and save $15)
> 4 pololu's will run you around $60 (wish I could
> get the PCB's - I'd reflow them myself)
>
> $165 + shipping and a little work by you =
> something that you had a hand in actually making.
> I prefer that to buying it off the shelf and using
> it plug n' play. How boring is that. At that
> point why not just say screw reprap and buy an UP!
> or a Cube. Probably would be easier. And if the
> results are the same who cares?
>
> My point is that this community shouldn't just be
> about extruding plastic - it should be educating
> itself how to build its own tools rather than
> consistently taking the easy way out and buying
> them. Learning stuff is hard. Tramflung
> pushed in this direction with some success. And
> now royco has put out what looks like a very solid
> controller. I want to build one of his myself
> (hopefully he'll sell me a bare PCB ). Maybe
> I'm an anomaly.
>
> Maybe I'll clone the Pololu PCB and start making
> them for myself.
>
> end of rant */

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2012 02:55AM by redreprap.

@ GaZ

you got from me help because you are a customer, and it has to be like this, it's the only way to preserve customers.
Thank you very much, however, i can honestly tell you, you can't find singe customer which bought from us and in case of some problem not got after sales support. Every customer has right to ask for refund up to 30 DAYS after his purchase and if he find problem with the goods bought, he can get exchage or money back. No risk for no one.

@Nopehead

i recieved your PM

- arduino clone
i know you are old in this comunity, i am new and i would like to respect the rules of the reprap community, you wrote me some things which you don't like, i agree with you and immediately made changes, but the question is, i am the only one selling this? are you sure?
regarding arduino, the new page of the mega2560 board sold by me will be www.taurino.cc and the new mega board rev.3 will look like the one i had attached in the picture, the boards will be ready after one week, will send you one so you can belive it. The mega2560 from www.taurino.cc is exact compatible with the Arduino Mega2560 from www.arduino.cc, see attchment

- the driver i am selling "A4988 pololu compatible"
you talk about the art work which you say is their art work, okay let's assume it is "copyright, patented, registered, etc.."
i just changed to a component on that circuit, the PCBs are also in factory now, after they come out i will post some high resolution pictures, but for now, check the attachments and see the difference between the pololu examples.

One thing i can really tell you, not every thing made in china is bad, this "make china bad thing" i believe is a kind of politics of some resellers fight competition.

Quote
reprapdiscount
regarding arduino, the new page of the mega2560 board sold by me will be www.taurino.cc and the new mega board rev.3 will look like the one i had attached in the picture

I have just received a 2560 board from you. It's exactly like the one nophead shows...
So, Mr Yang, are you now an official Arduino distributor?

reprapdiscount sent me a couple of the taurino boards (completely unannounced) just before Christmas. They have removed the Arduino branding on those.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]