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All Metal HotEnds

Posted by luigi 
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luigi
All Metal HotEnds
October 05, 2013 08:01AM
Hey guys,

I have been on a little hunt now for a while to perhaps get another nozzle apart from my Jhead MK4.

I was hoping for a nozzle that actualy does PLA ABS and perhaps some more plastics like Nylon and poly carbonate and such.
Just so i would have a bigger choice as plastics goes,
Also i wanted to ask you guys if a Hotend actualy matters that much as your end products quality goes?
Can it actualy get improven alot with getting another hotend? I always thought if it didnt jam and extrude nicely thats all what a hotend needs to do.

So far the list i've got as Hotends i might consider are:
[e3d-online.com]
[www.geekshop.eu]


Also the AluHotend is pretty nice, But since it has such a limit on the heat i might not buy it just since its at the end the same as a Jhead kinda
[3d-industries.myshopify.com]

Hoping to get some opinions and maybe some people that actualy worked with these nozzles and there opinion on it.

Thanks guys ^^
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Yvan
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 05, 2013 02:27PM
I've purchased two Eckertech all metal hot ends. I've installed one in my Prusa i3, and will be testing it over the next couple of days.

The second one is a retrofit design that will go into my Prusa i1/2

I've got nylon I want to print with soon. I did a few tests with a hot end that has a PTFE liner, but I don't want to push it.

Yvan

Singularity Machine
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luigi
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 05, 2013 03:22PM
kinda starting to think i might ask my school if i couldnt make a nozzle myself on a Lathe and CNC tongue sticking out smiley

Just due well, It isnt that hard to make a all metal hotend, isnt it tongue sticking out smiley
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Yvan
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 05, 2013 04:15PM
There are several all metal designs that are easy to fabricate, just follow them closely. Don't improvise like I did. My first version jammed solid after working briefly, and it had a PTFE liner that makes it more tolerant of design flaws. My second version still has a PTFE liner, but it has worked very well right from the beginning.

The PTFE liner is what is one of the things that allows mine to work well without active cooling. Waitaki came up with a nice design(trully all metal), but I can't find his original posts. I attached two of his photos down below.

Yvan

Singularity Machine
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Attachments:
open | download - under exruder.jpg (260.3 KB)
luigi
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 05, 2013 04:44PM
Well i might try it for fun if i am done in school with the current projects,

Oh well,
I am thinking so for for the Prusa or E3D HotEnds,
What would be the best for also PLA?
Since i would like to keep the ability to use PLA, but most people seem to have problems with that if they use full metal hotends?


Kinda thinking about the E3D more atm,
Since its cheaper and seems to perform better when i read messages?
that prusa nozzle might jam easyer.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2013 05:06PM by luigi.
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Yvan
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 05, 2013 07:57PM
I haven't used PLA, only ABS so I'm not up to speed on that issue. Maybe someone with more experiance will chime in...

Yvan

Singularity Machine
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cope413
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 08, 2013 02:13PM
Go directly to E3D... do not pass go, do not collect $200.

The prusa is still woefully undersupported and undertested. Just do a quick search of "prusa hot end problems" and read all about them.

I love my E3D.

It prints everything amazingly well. I print mainly with Nylon, so it's a must have for me, but PLA and ABS are easy. I've printed Bendlay, soft PLA, and laywood too. Not a single jam. Well over 100 hours on it since I got in about a month ago.

You cannot jam it. I really don't think it's possible to jam unless something other than filament gets into it.

It just works.
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thejollygrimreaper
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 08, 2013 05:31PM
cope413 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Go directly to E3D... do not pass go, do not
> collect $200.
>
> The prusa is still woefully undersupported and
> undertested. Just do a quick search of "prusa hot
> end problems" and read all about them.
>
> I love my E3D.
>
> It prints everything amazingly well. I print
> mainly with Nylon, so it's a must have for me, but
> PLA and ABS are easy. I've printed Bendlay, soft
> PLA, and laywood too. Not a single jam. Well over
> 100 hours on it since I got in about a month ago.
>
> You cannot jam it. I really don't think it's
> possible to jam unless something other than
> filament gets into it.
>
> It just works.

have you got any examples of print quality?, this is one of the reasons i've partially abandond the all metal idea for use with pla



-=( blog )=- -=( thingiverse )=- -=( 3Dindustries )=- -=( Aluhotend - mostly metal hotend)=--=( Facebook )=-



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jinx
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 08, 2013 05:54PM
hi,
Quote

have you got any examples of print quality?, this is one of the reasons i've partially abandond the all metal idea for use with pla
Am using the the E3D with PLA brilliant result this hotend will restore your faith in all metal, got a couple of vids of the blue mask, not great but the results are. colour changing is also much more controllable compared to J head mkV, due in part the E3D doesn't hold much filament in the nozzle.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2013 06:06PM by jinx.
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woo
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 09, 2013 03:03AM
there you go....

no problems with pla, nylon or abs. for now tested till 275 celsius, nozzle o.4 mm, lowest tested layer for now 0.1 mm (pla).

thinking about buying 0.25 nozzle so that my wife can print tiny "wife-ish" stuff like earrings etc in lets say high definition, maybe 0.02 mm layers(if ultimaker can print @0.02 mm layers, then we can to smiling smiley )..




2 jinx: i assume you are printing on 1.75 mm fillament?(these extruder wheel is turning very fast grinning smiley) i have 3mm,


also some pla movie....0.1 mm layer high, or like reprap communitiy loves to call it, 100 microns :lol:
[www.youtube.com]

Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2013 03:27AM by woo.
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luigi
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 09, 2013 04:23AM
So far i guess it will be a E3D if i gonna buy a new hotend,
Even tho i aint sure since ive never done Nylon and such so ye

Btw isnt there like another brand named Acrol or something Acrul/acrol
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jaydmdigital
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 09, 2013 09:26AM
Woo, can you give more details on your printer, a photo maybe, that's a stunning result. I just got my E3D and use PLA exclusively Luigi...I would caution that a direct drive stepper extruder may not ave enough torque, but my Wades with a Bowden does.
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woo
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 09, 2013 09:41AM
nothing special...prusa i3, for now.. smiling smiley

u got topic in reprappers forums...

waiting for timing belt, then it will be hbot with 10mm rails for x,y and 20 mm rails for Z axis, robust welded frame(and then cnc machined)

trying to figure out how to make printer with some serial IP certificates...


etc smiling smiley

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2013 09:57AM by woo.
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luigi
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 09, 2013 05:16PM
Just printed today for the first time with ABS,
Gotta say with a Jhead you have to go quiet slow, else it gets Cogged,

I tryed today with 45mm/s and it cogged right away lol!

35mm/s and it went very nicely tho.

Kinda can see now why people would go all metal if it would make it go faster tongue sticking out smiley

Gotta say, ABS realy smells ;P
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luigi
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 13, 2013 10:34AM
kinda thinking about buying the E3D now,

But wanted to ask if you can get faster speeds with ABS and PLA with full metal?

Also is this shorter then a Jhead MK4 or?

And can i use my Jhead MK4 holding/mounting plate for this also or?


Thanks for the help guys ^^
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woo
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 13, 2013 03:56PM
fast enough?
[www.youtube.com]
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luigi
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 13, 2013 04:15PM
woo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fast enough?
> [www.youtube.com]


When looking at it, it does seem that its bigger(longer) then the stock makerfarm hot end (Jhead mk4)
Isnt it?

Hoping its not like 3 cm bigger tho tongue sticking out smiley

Btw was asking about speed just due my Jhead is like around 35mm/s so ye tongue sticking out smiley


Also does the wooden mounting plate from Makerfarm work with this hot end?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2013 04:17PM by luigi.
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woo
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 14, 2013 04:26AM
you have all drawings on e3d online web page.

i dont know about makerfarm wooden mount. plate, i have milled my on cnc .(didnt have working printer yet)...

il test max working speeds soon, new printer will have max speeds at least 500 mm/s (x-y axis)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2013 04:28AM by woo.
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papergeek
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 18, 2013 07:56PM
I hear lots of good things about E3D and the Magma all-metal hot end I have has not yet given me a single successful PLA print (although ABS and PETT are OK).

I haven't given up printing PLA on the Magma but it's become more of a back-burner project... Colin @ MakerFarm sells a lot of the Magmas and explicitly does NOT claim they work with PLA. So far that seems like a pretty safe assertion... Magma does not work with 3mm PLA. Sounds like people are having success with E3D and PLA.
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woo
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 19, 2013 12:44AM
yes it prints pla without any problem...it cannot overheat itself, also its has very controlled glass transition area. it will be no problem if in hotend is pla on 210 celsius and left it stand for hours...just print and it works..
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luigi
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 23, 2013 11:45AM
Wanted to ask if anyone knew the length of the Prusa nozzle mk2?
Since the E3D is pretty large wich reduces the build volume quiet a bad to be frankly honest.
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jinx
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 23, 2013 01:55PM
hi,

Quote
luigi
Since the E3D is pretty large wich reduces the build volume quiet a bad to be frankly honest.
not know which printer you using, get the E3D and install a bowden feed and gain more than you lose " frankly"drinking smiley
that's assuming you not already moved too the bowden setup.
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luigi
Re: All Metal HotEnds
October 24, 2013 06:03AM
Well i wouldnt go with a bwoden feeding,
Just due a Makerfarm printer isnt made for it and i would need to make a bowden system myself.
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luigi
Re: All Metal HotEnds
December 19, 2013 11:57AM
Gonna get a SG2 from Vanguard Innovations pretty soon ^^

After long waiting finaly a great HotEnd, instead of my Jhead MK4, Hopefuly some less oozing ^^

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2013 11:57AM by luigi.
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zoroeye
Re: All Metal HotEnds
December 23, 2013 12:10AM
any reason why magma is not working with PLA? is it a temperature issue?
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uncle_bob
Re: All Metal HotEnds
December 23, 2013 09:46AM
Well, the Magma does work with PLA, at least mine does with PLA from the vendors I buy it from.

The reason for "no PLA" on the Magma is that it's not as forgiving. It does not have as big a range of rates and temperatures that it will print PLA over. Also the cooling is a bit tricky on PLA. You need a *lot* of air on the thing.
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