Problem with 2nd or 3rd layer allways curling up

I have a problem with my printer that I just cant figure out.

No matter what filament I use the perimeter of the 2nd or 3rd layer (seems like its allways those) curls up.

I have created an album with pictures of the problem here is the url: https://plus.google.com/photos/108379674958622576785/albums/6089215837587977553

Cold or heated bed doesnt change anything, whatever I print it happens and the 1st layer adhesion appears excellent to me.

I dont get it. If you have any idea what could be causing this please let me know.

Thank you!

Fred.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2014 12:39AM by thecrazy.

Maybe you are printing the first layer too low - squished down a lil too much onto the bed ?

It can help for its adhesion, but the 2nd layer might then lack some space for its extrusion, or it could just cause your extruder to malfunction for a while.

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Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.

I will agree with DeuxVis, it looks like the difference between first layer height and second one is too big, for the rest everything looks perfect.

Thank you for your input, I have looked into it more closely and on the purple print its the 3rd layer that curled up. On the grey one its the 2nd layer with some area of the 3rd and its the same for the green print.

I am a little bit confused, It would seem to me that no matter how squished down the 1st layer is, the trace would just be spread out more while being leveled by the hotend. Doesnt this mean the 1st layer should "end" at the proper height to received the 2nd layer no matter what? It should not end up printed too high or in mid air.

Any of this makes sense?

My 1st layer height in slic3r is set to 0.3493 (non metric lead screws...) and when I measure the brim left behind at every print its pretty much at 0.34-0.35 mm. The first layer extrusion width is set to 200%.

You don't mention muchabout your printing like what material, what temp, what nozzle size, what speed....

I am going to make a guess that you are printing with PLA and a fan on full? If so, turn the fan down to 40% and see if that helps. While it's recommended to use a fan on PLA I was told and found on my own that too much cooling causes PLA to warp upward like a lip and that looks like what you have there.

If not then please fill us in on all the missing information.

Your absolutely right. Here are the details:

Im printing with PLA at 190 1st layer and 185 for the rest. The heat bed at 55 for the entire print.
I have a cooling fan but its not on all the time, its controlled by the Ramps board and only turns on when needed (small layers, bridges, etc.)

The printer is a Mendel Prism with almost every plastic parts replaced with aluminium. The frame is very solid.

I use a 0.35mm Arcol 4.2 hot end

For the speeds here is a screenshot: [dl.dropboxusercontent.com]

I print on a heated sheet of glass covered with several layers of 1 part Elmer's glue diluted with 10 parts water. This stuff is awesome.

Oooh a fellow Prism user. Welcome aboard.

I see on others of your pictures that you didn't always had that problem.



What did change ? Or maybe the pîctures are from another printer ?


And not related - from your name I think you might be speaking french - do not hesitate to jump into the french spoken forum section or even the french irc channel if you rather use french.

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Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.

I will add my 2 cents for what ever its worth. I had a curling problem so bad early on that i almost quit printing. it was so frustrating. Thin parts of a couple inches in diameter and it was guaranteed to curl.
I still have that problem once in a while but I have a few tricks to help out.
1. if you are designing your own prints you can taper the outside walls. I did this using a reverse taper. the taller the part gets, the bigger the part gets. Meaning my first layer was actually smaller the the layer above it. This cause the stresses of the material to push against the next layer which is bigger.
2. I use a heavy mixture of ABS juice and high temp tape. I hit the tape with 100 grit paper to give the juice some grooves to bite into. (and of coarse a heated bed at 110 first layer, 100 after)
3. Lastly, when im really desperate and I need the part to stay down I will paint ABS plummer cement onto my tape. This will cause the color to change on your first layer so it ruins the cosmetic of the part, so I always print in black when i do this, but it will work.

I have also had alot less curling problems since i started printing with .75 and even 1 mm nozzles. The cosmetics of the part arent as good but my prints are much faster and stronger.

Just my 2 cents.

Hi guys, its been a while.

A side project at worked turned into a full fledge product so fast that I had to forget about life for a while

DeuxVis, that picture youve posted is of the same printer but it predates my heatbed and 100% aluminium frame. I think it started happening when I changed the heat bed but I am not 100% sure.

I use an aluminium print bed carriage on which an Helios heated bed is mounted, using 3 x m3 screws. On top of that I have a sheet of borosilicate glass.

makovai, if you are talking about prints curling up from the print bed, this is not what I am talking about here. I know some of my prints have a curve on the bottom but this is not the case since I learned how to use a glass bed with PLA.

I have read somewere about PCB heatbed curving when heating up, which could push / move the glass higher and then move back down once you turn off the heat bed after the 1st layer, but I leave my heat bed on at 50C during the entire print.

So I dont know whats going on anymore.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2015 08:01PM by thecrazy.

Give a try with constant 190°C temperature and a bed @ 60°C.

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Collective intelligence emerges when a group of people work together effectively. Prusa i3 Folger (A lot of the parts are wrong, boring !)

You cannot really print a layerheight of 0.3493 with a 0.35 nozzle and your extrusion width would suffer from this as there is no "squeeze" from Hotend, output would be a cylinder and not a flat.and therefore no good adhesion with other layers..
Lower your first height to something far below nozzle size 0.2 or similar.

I have lowered my hotend closer to the bed and it seems to have helped a bit but it wasnt perfect. More testing required. I understand what you mean by the output being round but the extrusion width in slic3r for the 1st layer is set to 200% so there is some "squeeze" or something else happening cause way more plastic is being pushed out and the traces are flat and wide as you would expect. but either way, how will that explain the 3rd layer curling up when the 2nd layer is sticking properly to the 1st?

Here is what im talking about:



And here is the 1st layer from under:



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2015 12:17AM by thecrazy.

Did you tryed at constant temperature ?

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Collective intelligence emerges when a group of people work together effectively. Prusa i3 Folger (A lot of the parts are wrong, boring !)

The heat bed is at 55C for the whole print.

I meant keep the same nozzle temperature from start to end

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Collective intelligence emerges when a group of people work together effectively. Prusa i3 Folger (A lot of the parts are wrong, boring !)

Wow, its been a while! had another of those "must forget about life for a while" kinda job to do.

Yes I had tried keeping the same temp but it didnt help.

The good news is I no longer have the problem but with the winter gone I am wondering if the hotter weather is responsible or the changes I did to the 1st layer heights and width.

I tried messing with those earlier but it didnt seem to help at that time... and im using the same plastic.

In the comming weeks I will take care of a few upgrades:

-replace the last plastic parts (x ends and x carriage)
-redo the heat bed mounts
-calibrate the thermistor table (hot end and bed)
-build an heated enclosure

It will eliminated several variables.
It should be easier to troubleshoot problems in the future.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2015 01:12PM by thecrazy.