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bad printing

Posted by icecreamman 
bad printing
December 30, 2014 04:50AM
hi everyone,
im trying to print this puzzle piece just for checking if my printer is working well and aperantly its not.
does anyone have an idea whats the problem?

its a reprappro mendel
the pic and gcode file are attached
the original file was converted from stl with slic3r
Attachments:
open | download - puzzle_piece-3_.stl (569.4 KB)
open | download - puzzle_piece-3.gcode (466.8 KB)
open | download - badprinting.jpg (295.8 KB)
Re: bad printing
January 05, 2015 11:38PM
How about some details?

1) How long ago was the kit ordered? Did you build it per the instructions or make changes along the way?

2) Where you had options in the instructions, how did you do things? Did you line the bed with the supplied Kapton or try something else? Are you doing any tricks for adhesion?

3) What is the printer doing while it prints? That picture looks like it would be making scraping noises as it goes and eventually peeling the part off the build surface.

4) Is this the supplied PLA you're trying to print?

The more detailed the question and supplied background, the easier it is to provide useful feedback. Based on the limited information supplied, my feedback would be that it looks like you're dragging the nozzle through the part as you go. Some things to look at and how to fix them:

1) The low-hanging fruit here is that the gcode indicates you're not using the heated bed. I've gotten satisfactory adhesion with temperatures far lower than RepRapPro recommends for both PLA and ABS, but I'm running it well above no heat at all. If the part peels up, it will be higher than it's supposed to be and the nozzle will drag, giving patterns like the ones in your picture and eventually peeling the part off the build platform. RepRapPro recommends 50-60C for PLA. I've been getting good results in the 40s.

2) Double check bed leveling and zero point for the Z axis. Starting at the right height is critical for getting the desired results. Too low and you'll drag through the part too much. Too high and the filament won't stick.

3) Check cleanliness of your nozzle. If you have adhered filament to the side of it, it can draw the filament you're extruding off to the side and get it depositing in completely wrong places.

4) On my build, I found a significant issue with hysteresis in the Z axis. What this means is that my Z axis has "stickiness." It winds up in a different place depending on whether a set point is approached from above or below. Zero your Z axis and move it up incrementally until a measured object will just pass under it. Move the Z axis up 1 mm and back down 1 mm and see if the object passes under it more easily than it did the first time. If it does, you have hysteresis. There are build problems that could cause this or make it worse, so make sure your Z axis moves smoothly by hand and is set level before you try to address it programmatically, but if you're satisfied it moves smoothly and is level but you still have hysteresis, the programmatic workaround I've done is to set a custom layer change gcode in the expert mode of Slic3r to:

G91 ; change to relative positioning
G1 Z1 F2000 ; move up 1 mm
G1 Z-1 F2000 ; move down 1 mm
G90 ; change to absolute positioning

(If 2000 is an excessive feedrate on your build, feel free to modify it).

This way, the set point is always approached from a point meaningfully above the target coordinate, so the hysteresis always acts in the same direction.
Re: bad printing
January 06, 2015 12:17PM
Looking at your config your using PLA, (200 is too low for ABS) Looking at your print it appears your nozel is getting clogged and that your extruder vref is not set correctly.

To fix the clogging issue with PLA is that you need to have a fan on the area just above the tip of the hotend. This prevents the PLA from becoming soft in the tube and then jamming.
To fix the Vref you need measure the amount of filament going into the hotend when you extrude.

Hope it helps,
Re: bad printing
January 06, 2015 01:14PM
Interesting input. It's the same kit as mine...He should have a hot end fan.

Follow up question...Did you follow the instructions that the hot end fan does NOT go in the connectors labeled fan, but instead is put in the main power connectors? Is it running 100% of the time?
Re: bad printing
January 06, 2015 02:53PM
Yup. 100% of the time as long as it gets power
Re: bad printing
January 06, 2015 02:55PM
Hi, can u explain how to measure the amount of filament going into the hotend when extruding?
Re: bad printing
January 06, 2015 03:06PM
Imboring25, thanks a lot for the attention. The bed is 65 degree at printing. I think it is the nozzle because of the scraping noizes like u said, but those appear only at the begining of the printing. And the first layers actually looks really good.
I'll try the hysteresis issue also.

Do you guys have some tips for sleaning the nozzel?
I cleaned it but I'm not sure its really clean...
Re: bad printing
January 06, 2015 04:44PM
If it appears clean over the surface of the nozzle itself it should be clean enough. The time I had trouble I had a trail of filament residue obviously attached to the outside of the nozzle. I pulled the hot end off the machine and used a combination of (cold) scraping with a fingernail, scraping with a knife, and rubbing with an acetone towel with the hot end at somewhat elevated temperature.

There's a step-by-step for calibrating the extruder steps per mm in the tuning your printer section of the printing section of the Mendel documentation. For what it's worth, mine over-extruded by about 3% out of the box.
Re: bad printing
January 07, 2015 07:55AM
In Slic3r turn off retraction also, just for the initial calibration prints.

To measure filament going in:

Prerequisite: Know the default E steps per mm. if you dont set it for testing purposes using M92 E650 (for Gear based like a wade) or (M92 E200 if direct drive extruders) <-safe values

Step one: use a pencil to mark a section of the filament a few cm ( or inches if your US) away from the top of the extruder.
Step two: extrude 5-10mm of filament just to get things flowing.
Step three: use a pair of digital calipers(micrometer) and measure the distance from the top of extruder to your mark.
-Tip* a digital caliper will let you set this point to 0 which makes finding the amount extruded easier.
Step Four: extrude 15mm slowly(like wait a second on each 5mm extrusion)
Step Five: measure the mark on the filament you made again.
Step Six: Assuming the distance traveled is 10mm and you told it to extrude 15mm use the equation below to find your new e steps per mm and put this at the top of your gcode.

(EStepsValue*15) / What you got(10) = New Value

M92 E(NewValue);
Re: bad printing
January 08, 2015 05:20PM
updates:

hysteresis - tried it and it looks ok (measured object from both sides)

cleaning - cleaned it and it looks the same, also, when im extruding from a high z point (to the air) it look ok and the material flows in a nice one line freely

measure filament - also looks very good

one other thing is that i tried locating the "scratching noises" and it coming out of the extruder drive :/ not the nozzle and bed

another print pic is attached from the button angle (from one i've made today)

also tried something in the setting of the slic3r "filament settings" and changed the "diameter" from 3 to 2. it looks much much better,
u guys think that might be it??
Attachments:
open | download - IMG_20150108_234016.jpg (231.8 KB)
Re: bad printing
January 08, 2015 05:50PM
Uh, check your filament diameter. Common ones are 3 and 1.75. Sounds like 1.75 may be the correct value.

Also check your nozzle diameter, as it appears that your lines are a bit too far apart. It may not clear up everything, but it's a start.
Re: bad printing
January 08, 2015 06:17PM
ok cool.
what does the "extruder multiplier" means? its set to 1
Re: bad printing
January 08, 2015 09:32PM
Sounds like 1.75 mm diameter filament, but actually measure it, as some is closer to spec than others.

Extruder multiplier takes the feedrate slicer thinks it needs and multiplies it by the extruder multiplier. At .9, it would extrude 90% of the material it thinks it needs. With a single extruder, it's a tweak setting if it seems like you're extruding too much or too little plastic. If you eventually go multi-extruder you might need to use it to correct for variation between the extruders.
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