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Isaac Mendel build

Posted by jkelso 
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 28, 2010 02:56PM
If through playing these games. I've contacted paypal and the transaction is just under the 45 day wire to get a refund. I'm going to go with the MAX 6675 chip with the published firmware on the wiki.
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 28, 2010 04:20PM
I am sorry that whatever you applied 12V +/- to instead of +5V and GND is most likely to be fried.
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 28, 2010 04:56PM
So you are sending back the AD595?
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 28, 2010 06:54PM
Yes, but then again I'm not the one who sent out a board that supposedly had a misprint on it as to the correct polarity in the first place. Funny thing that the red LED worked for several weeks plugging it in to the 12v terminals. Besides the fact that it came apparently mislabeled (if what I'm reading on the wiki is correct), they didn't inform me of the mistake when it shipped. All that aside, there doesn't appear to be any published code for this board available on the wiki, which makes it unusable as well. Correct me if I'm wrong. DanielG if this code is any good why don't you publish it on the wiki?
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 28, 2010 07:13PM
Truthfully, I really love how certain people like to come in and monday morning quarterback when it's revealed I made a mistake and connected the thermocouple wires to the wrong terminals. If you page back through this thread you will find that I've wondered aloud on here about where those wires went. That little tidbit of information could have really helped, just someone to point out exactly where those wires went, but nobody did. Now that the board is fried I can expect people to come here posting little comments about how, naturally, if I put the +5V wire to a 12v terminal it will fry. Problem is, I had no idea where a 5V terminal was on the board. Call me a noob, or stupid or whatever but in my opinion if it's anyone's fault it's the people organizing this "business" or the people that sold me the board for not giving out better instructions on how to connect it to my reprap. On ebay it's listed as an "AD595 thermocouple for reprap". If it's for reprap what pins on what board do I need to hook it to. I'm sure the info is buried somewhere in the archives, but I've been on here day and night looking for answers and they're not as simple as you might think to find.
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 28, 2010 07:25PM
Ok, I will throw it up this week! Btw, I bought my thermocouple from him as well and its not labeled wrong as far as I can tell... In MY opinion you should NOT return a item that you most likely damaged. Order this part and and replace it and you will be fine I bet... PART YOU NEED This project can certainly be frustrating but stick in there and you will win.

Last thing the V specs on that chip are 5-15 volts.... maybe you reversed the polarity?
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 28, 2010 07:35PM
Problem is "reprap" can use many different types of electronics.. Think about this.. Is you order a electronic part for your car online.. does it come with instructions? most likely not.. if you hook it up wrong and fry it its all you.... With that said everyone has to learn....you are on a very hard step for someone without electronics experience.. your gonna take some dings...chalk it up to a VERY cheap learning experience and move on.. This is a great thread keep it going!

Load the example code for the thermo again after it connected correctly.
void setup()
void loop()
int raw = analogRead(6);
int celsius = ( 5.0 * raw * 100.0) / 1024.0;

Serial.print("Celsius: ");

int fahrenheit = (((celsius * 9) / 5) + 32);
Serial.print("Fahrenheit: ");

If its a no go replace the chip.. digikey is fast!.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2010 07:38PM by DanielG.
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 28, 2010 08:52PM
Im looking at the extruder 2.2 schematics and the techzone remix diagrams. It looks like the way forward might be to connect the thermocouple board to one of the 'extra' headers and then rewrite the firmware to read from that header. Using the thermistor header for this requires modifying the board.

Looks easy to rewrite, line 67 in extruder.h is where the temperature is read - and looks broken in my version, its trying to read form 'pin * 100', and who knows what 'pin' is defined as? Rewrite it to read from TEMP_PIN, use the code in the test firmware as a starting point, and then define TEMP_PIN in configuration.h to point to point to A6 or A7.

EDIT] Which you are already doing now that I read page 11 again.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2010 08:58PM by Andrew Smith.
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 28, 2010 10:21PM
For someone experience with writing code, things like this are "easy". I have real problems understanding java and grasping what to look for and how to interpret what pins the code is written for. If I'm working on my car I can go buy a chiltons book if the answer isn't apparent on how to repair it. To expect that people should be able to look at two circuit boards and figure out how to wire them together is a shortcoming of this whole reprap culture. Things like that need to be simplified, user friendly. If the people selling these products can't even go to the trouble of posting a how to connect these wires on their ebay page or send one thin sheet of paper with an explanation then I don't think it's beyond reasonable to expect them to refund the money when someone takes a guess on the wiring. The mere fact that they didn't warn me of the polarity and that everyone defends all this as "normal" only serves to drive away potential reprap builders. I know it may sound paranoid, but it almost feels like every step of the way this has been engineered to be as difficult and frustrating as possible to figure out the answers to. The site isn't streamlined, everything is scattered into obscure pages difficult to find. There needs to be a roadmap...step A to step Z on how to build this and get it running without people having to dig for the answers if this business is ever to reach a wider audience. I have every right to request a refund and I have multiple reasons for requesting one. I already got a response back from the seller on paypal with the vague advice to "check the connection or 2. reverse the polarity"..etc...
I already tried all that and I have reservations using this chip at all because I can't get any response from the software but I can get a reading with the arduino. This tells me the firmware is bogus possibly. So I think I'll stick with the MAX 6675 thanks.
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 28, 2010 11:09PM
jkelso: You have been doing a great job at detailing your build.

I share your frustrations that the electronics will not work. My comment was merely to let you know that the board may be damaged - I had no idea you were going to plug 12V into 5V in advance. While I understand electronics, I have no understanding of the parts you are using, so I am unable to help. If the pcb is labelled V and can take 5-15V as DanielG suggests, then all should be well provided the polarity is not reversed. Sometimes polarity reversal for just a short time will not do any damage - it is part dependant and unknown.

I truly hope you can resolve these issues and enlighten us with a documented and working system. I would hate for you to have come this far and give up. I keep looking to see the results of first plastic.
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 28, 2010 11:34PM
Below are parts printed with the "bogus" firmware. Are you having trouble compiling it? Did it actually get loaded?
The firmware I posted is the firmware I am using. I suppose it may not be compatible with your board? I doubt it though...
I think you are closer than you think you are.. Try reloading the test firmware and check your therm again it may work!
If you had makerbot stuff I would walk you thru over the phone man....

Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 29, 2010 02:19AM
You've been mentioning that you don't have a lot of electronics experience. If your extruder board worked for a while and now appears to be broken/burned out, there is a chance you may have just had a marginal solder join thats gone bad on you somewhere. Have you checked all the connections on the board for continuity?
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 29, 2010 05:03AM

To expect that people should be able to look at two circuit boards and figure out how to wire them together is a shortcoming of this whole reprap culture.

There are detailed connection diagrams for the suggested RepRap electronics. If some commercial company makes boards that are different it is up to them to provide the alternative instructions, not reprap. If you ask a question about the gen3 electronics or the Pololu variant more than likely I can answer it but I have no idea about the techzone stuff.

When you connect up electronics you have to find out the information first. Trial and error will more than likely damage something and also gets totally confusing. Is it wired wrong, or is it damaged from previously being wired wrong, or is the firmware configured wrong? Too many variables to hope to get it right by luck alone. You have to be methodical with these things. If you can't find out how to connect something you have to go back to techzone and ask them.

BTW the firmware is written in C++, not Java.

Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 29, 2010 05:08AM
BTW the firmware is written in C++, not Java.

I've been wanting to say that the whole time but I thought he was having enough problems as it was.
Now he has to sell his Java books and buy some C++ books. eye popping smiley

Bob Morrison
Wörth am Rhein, Germany
"Luke, use the source!"
BLOG - PHOTOS - Thingiverse
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 29, 2010 10:02AM
jkelso Wrote:
> This tells me the firmware is
> bogus possibly. So I think I'll stick with the
> MAX 6675 thanks.

The stock firmware won't work with the MAX6675 either, and reading from it is much more complex, so unless you have had some success with this chip in the past you would be best off just buying a replacement AD595 which can be read with one, simple, line of code.
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 29, 2010 11:50AM
OK maybe I'll just buy the damn chip. I'd almost like to return it just so that the next guy down the line might actually get a sheet of paper explaining what to do with the shipment. Just because I might be frustrated at times does not mean I'm giving up. I think the vendors here are ultimately the ones who need to make changes. The reprap community may or may not be willing/available to help one another and I know this so whatever help I get on the forum is appreciated. Problem is, people on the forum may or may not be invested in seeing this project take off. One more person taking that share of the profit away from someone else who could be printing the parts and selling them. So let's give vague answers or no answers at all and when the chips fry everybody can come here and gloat and point out how inexperienced I am and all the thing I did wrong or could have done or I mistook Java for C++, who cares? If you're just here to prove how smart you are and how stupid I am I don't need your comments on this thread.
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 29, 2010 12:14PM
UPDATE: It's been 24 hours since receiving the email from lambert andrus stating that he CAN dig up the tracking number, he was just hoping that I didn't need it and he wouldn't have to. Well, after reading the email I replied back with another email asking "So where is it?"
So, far still no reply back.
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 29, 2010 02:50PM
I decided that it is my best interest to stay with the thermocouple board and replace the chip. I've canceled the paypal dispute for the item.
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 29, 2010 02:52PM
people get busy, give them time
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 29, 2010 03:07PM
Thing is, if you have enough time to write me long paragraphs explaining why they don't have the tracking number, it isn't about them being busy or them having not enough time. Either they sent it or they didn't. They can either say 1) we sent it but forgot to get a tracking number 2) we sent it and have a tracking number but cannot find it so I'm sorry we don't have it for you at this time but I'll let you know if we find it or 3)truthfully, we sent the item but we are truly offended that you would disgrace our honor and request a tracking number to prove our integrity or 4)we are completely forgetful and never sent the item or 5)we don't want to deal with you and we are not sending the item.
just SOMETHING to tell me what's really going on here. My time is just as important as anyone's time, I have a lot of schoolwork to finish in the next 12 days before the deadline. I don't have time to keep checking email and wondering if I need to be here for a package delivery.
Also, notice how they write sloppy lettering on the side of the terminals with marker? Mine is all smeared and gone now. It was very unreadable even when new and it looked like + was - in some areas. What about a label maker? They're not that expensive.

Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 29, 2010 05:12PM
I found a gremlin that caused me hours of confusion at one time. The USB board was carelessly mounted over a bolt that was bridging the connections. Now it works fine every time.

Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 29, 2010 10:02PM
Sitting here doing homework tonight, the most interesting bug came to perch on top of the monitor. The cat dragged him in but became bored so now he's chillin with me.

Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 30, 2010 12:32AM
Howdy -

I have been trying and failing to create an M8 hobbed bolt that works. I got excited when you found yours on eBay - but alas, I can NOT find one on eBay. Any chance Daniel gave you his contact info? Or will be posting more on ebay?

Another Denver Mendel Maker
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 30, 2010 12:59AM

EDIT appears this isn't for sale now..

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2010 01:45AM by mlagana.
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 30, 2010 01:35AM
jkelso: I share your frustration and am glad you are staying in there. I will be heading down your path as soon as time permits, admittedly with changes. And I will learn from your mistakes, as will all of us. This thread is giving the new builders a wealth of information and I truly hope the nightmares doesn't turn anyone off.

However, I don't think anyone here is really gloating at your expense - at least I hope not.

This is still a new project and there are a huge number of variations at the moment. The extruder is a typical example, as everyone tries to make a better and simpler extruder. Of course, once a simple, cheap and reliable extruder is designed, we will all say why didn't we think of that. This is just life. We are on the leading edge here, and you are one of the pioneers who has documented their build with great enthusiasm.

I await that picture of the first plastic piece with great enthusiasm - we will all get as much pleasure from seeing a pic of it as you will from making it. thumbs up
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 30, 2010 04:20PM
Yes, about that comment about it being my fault I put 12V to a board that said +5V on it. I'm not so sure about that....
I'm looking at this chip on the digikey website and it says 5-15V is the range for this chip....

BTW I didn't mean that I felt anyone is openly gloating. It's more of a suspicion that the answers I'm getting seem to be so vague or often no answer at all. More often than not the answer is the wrong one. After you've troubleshot 20 wrong answers it almost feels like things are working counterproductively trying to seek answers on a forum filled with potential "competitors" in the plastics business. The people who really know the answers are sitting in a lab tinkering with their designs rather than building a business with customer support which is what people really need. Offering this as an open source project is great, but that shouldn't have to mean "if you build it you're on your own". Thrown to the wolves, people can choose to help or not and the ones that do aren't getting paid and may not be qualified to be helping out in the first place.
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 30, 2010 05:57PM
"Maybe spend a little less time on the professional photography and a little more time showing which wires actually go where."
Thanks! grinning smiley
Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 30, 2010 07:21PM
Today I checked back with paypal as I do every day and there was a new message from Kimberly Andrus:

The tracking number is valid so I'll be looking for the package to arrive now. The other package (the one supposedly sent but with no tracking number) has not arrived, if indeed it has been sent.

Re: Isaac Mendel build
September 30, 2010 11:22PM
The ADC chip may indeed take 5-15V but it is interfaced to another chip that most likely can only take 5V. I have not looked at the spec for the ADC chip, nor the pcbs you are using. As soon as I get some clear time I will see what I can find for you.

Meanwhile I am sure others are using the mixopf pcbs you are using. Perhaps they can put up some photos of how to connect.

I am going to design my own electronics and try to avoid the many pitfalls that you have encountered. However, I am going to use a different processor (the Parallax Propeller which has 8 32bit processors internally).
Re: Isaac Mendel build
October 01, 2010 10:26PM
The new chip from digikey has been shipped and today I got the thermistors so that I can continue with testing. However, I have to take a break from this to finish homework because I have a deadline approaching. Tonight I went back to work for the 3rd year in a row at the 13th Floor haunted house here in denver. Last year I worked there for several weeks as an actor but my voice became weak from screaming and I came down with severe flu symptoms. My cell phone sim card happened to go dead during that time and I didn't have the phone number to call my boss to tell him I was sick. So they told me they weren't going to pay. After lengthy negotiations and emails the owner finally came through with a check at the end. Minimum wage, I only worked there because I thought it was fun. So the supervisor ricky dominguez tells me last year that if I want to work there next year I have to be there from the first day. So I look on the website getscared.com and it says they are open Oct. 1st. So I go down there and the other owner Warren has me taking out dumpsters full of garbage and sweeping the whole place for hours. Then ricky gets there and tells me they don't need me. I told him I've been working there for hours and he starts arguing that I never turned in an application. They always ask me to fill out the application on the last day when we pick up our checks. So I see that he's trying to run me in circles now and jack me out of 3 hours hard work I spent there today. Then he tells me to come in this office and some other "big shots" come in there and he's telling me off and saying "goddamit" and acting way different than he did outside in front of all the other actors. I won't forget that they owe me that money. They have a real crappy youtube channel as well and I've decided to flame the site. Now I can forget about slaving and concentrating on school and fixing my reprap.
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