Beginner's questions

Hi!

I'm completely new to this topic, but me and my friends would like to start building a 3D printer completely from scratch.
I would like to ask you, if there is any universal software I can use to make my hypothetical printer work? I mean every model differs in many ways: different gearing, different ways of moving individual parts. How does the software work and how does the printer know how many times to rotate the stepper motor to move the bed by 10mm or raise the extruder by 5mm?

Please, if my question is too stupid, feel free to delete this topic.

The firmware and controller boards for 3D printers are easily configurable for almost anything you want to do. That said, if you want to do something relatively exotic, such as run 4 extruders, you should look for a controller board that's designed to handle that many extruders plus the motion control motors. The most popular firmware that runs on the cheapest controller board (Arduino/RAMPS) hardware is called Marlin, but there are others. If you want a more modern board with more processing power (better for running delta printers, etc.) get a 32 bit board such as the Duet or SmoothieBoard. The Arduino type board require you to recompile firmware when you make changes to the machine's operating parameters. SmoothieBoard (and probably Duet) store all operating parameters in a text file that can be edited easily. No recompiling the firmware is required- just edit the text file and reboot the board.

When you build the machine, you customize the firmware, telling it things like maximum speeds, accelerations, motor steps (or microsteps) per mm, X,Y, and Z size limits, etc. Many of those values are found by experiment, after you get things up and running, because few builders have the engineering chops to design things to meet anything beyond basic performance criteria.

If you want to avoid some common mistakes, see the instructable on my printer linked below, in my sig.

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Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]

Thank you very much for your reply!

You really gave me a lot of confidence! I will definitely check the link.

I will most likely use the Arduino chip and try to create the "traditional" style printer, nothing fancy for now. I'm just wondering if it is possible to make a 3D printer without using 3D printed parts. Everywhere I looked, every printer uses at least few. I think I'm going to aim for some wooden/metal parts and a few screws.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2015 06:44PM by Diabl0.

I would second Digital Dentist's comments, and strongly recommend that your first project should be based on a proven design (such as a Prusa i3, for example), and should run "standard" electronics and firmware. Arduino Mega and RAMPS 1.4 may not be the most powerful electronics option available, but it has plenty of capacity for most hobby desktop-sized printers, It can be bought pre-assembled very cheaply (don't under-estimate the value of buying a pre-assembled RAMPS board if your soldering skills are suspect!), and is well supported by a variety of firmware choices (such as Marlin or similar), slicing and hosting software, etc.

The big advantage of using a "standard" open-source design is that you will be able to get support from a huge community of people who have "been there - done that", the designs for all parts are freely available so you can manufacture your own spares or create upgraded designs, and every line of code is accessible so you can hack away to your heart's content.

Once you have "cut your teeth" on a "standard" build, you will have a vastly improved understanding of how a 3D printer works (both hardware and software), and you can start working on improvements, either as a complete second build of a more ambitious design, or as most of us do, a never-ending series of incremental upgrades. ("I have owned this axe for twenty years - it's on to its fifth handle and third axe-head.")

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Follow my Mendel Prusa build here: [julianh72.blogspot.com]

Alright, I will start with Prusa i3. What do you think, will this kit be good to begin with?



Aliexpress Prusa i3 Kit 1

Or this one:

Aliexpress Prusa i3 Kit 2

(I'd like to buy such kit and then try to print proper parts and replace the acrylic with printed ones).

What can go wrong? Which parts will need to be replaced if i bought this kit?

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2015 11:49AM by Diabl0.

And another question if I may: Latest printable parts for this printer on the RepRap wiki are from 2013. Are there any newer STL files for this printer?

While kits are interesting... perhaps you should self source parts? This way you get what you want the first time. Acrylic frames have been known to be flimsy and crack easily. In the above two kits the only major difference I see is the direct drive extruder (added build height) and the Bowden extruder (smaller build height). Both have their uses as well as disadvantages.

Personally I sourced my parts for my first printer (Prusa I3 rework) and that helped me learn more about what NOT to buy in a kit. Cheap RAMPS and Arduino Mega with stepper drivers, 30 - 12v power supply, Nema 17 motors, etc. are the bane of 3D printing but it's a start. I gave up on 40z Nema 17's and went to 72oz Nema 17's, they run quieter and don't get near as warm as it's smaller brother. That said, I wouldn't run them without DRV8825's as the driver chip. Those chips can handle more current which is needed for the larger motors.

I've since finished (well, I'll finish today a Prusa I3 Steel which I love) and have pretty much tossed all the cheaper components from the first build into the trash. That was the price of my learning curve but now I'm happier and I have a sturdier printer which should give me better prints in the long run. I'm running a hacked MKS SBase controller with Smoothieware and I love it, it's butter smooth and seems to be much easier to configure than Marlin was for me.

Just thoughts... however, if you have to go for a kit, I'd go for the direct drive one. Just for the build height.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2015 02:05PM by Viper97.

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Viper97
Just thoughts... however, if you have to go for a kit, I'd go for the direct drive one. Just for the build height.

Well, I don't think these 3 centimeters will mean much to me and considering the fact that hundreds of people bough the transparent one, I'd rather choose this one. That's very interesting what you wrote, but that's exactly the path me and my friends would like to choose: we want to learn first on an example, and I think that the kits are much cheaper than buying all parts separately. I'm sure we will replace them for better ones in the future, but they should be good for now, I think. Or am I wrong? I don't want to sound cocky or something, It's not like I'm asking questions first, but don't care about answers and keep doing my own thing. I'm just explaining my reasoning, which may be wrong.

You might want to look in the Prusa I3 section of the forum regarding experiences from others and their kit 'issues'. That's what convinced me to just self source (yes, it's not cheaper but the quality is something I could control). Others love their kits, hate their kits, want to shoot the kit maker etc. Either way, it's a start to get you to learn about this hobby.

I guess what I'm saying is, one way or the other you are going to learn things like yes, the kits have all the parts, most of the time. Yes, you'll have to learn how to put it together without much instruction (same as a self-sourced printer) and yes, you'll be learning your way around Marlin, Smoothieware, Duet etc. Then there's the slicing programs and the printing programs. Either way you'll come to understand things.

I just did it the hard way and jumped in, learned a lot and spent twice as much as a kit. Still I wouldn't change that for the world. (As frustrating as it was at times! )

Ok, I'm really leaning towards building one from complete scratch.

Can you tell me if buying the parts listed here and following these instructions will be a good start?

BotBuilder

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2015 03:57PM by Diabl0.

If you are asking on the forums, I would definitely recommend starting with a kit.

With a kit you should receive everything you need to build a working 3D printer. No waiting on parts from China because you bought a 10mm rod instead of an 8mm or you forgot to buy the stepper drivers for the control board you selected.

Yes, you get what you pay for when buying a $300 kit instead of a more reputable $1,000 kit, but you can still read up on most suppliers and find individuals who are better about replacing DOA components. Yes, they still aren't top quality parts and the acrylic will degrade overtime, but it will last you til the itch to build a 2nd printer strikes and give you a lot of experience in the hobby before investing in more expensive components.

On the other hand, if you are mechanically inclined, paying extra upfront for better motors, extrusions, and 32-bit boards for something like a CoreXY printer could be very rewarding and possibly better than a Prusa i3 acrylic kit long term.

I'll chime in when I get home and pop a couple of links out in a post. I used a few resources to get started but the one's you have posted are also good.

I'm looking forward to hearing from you, then!

Here ya go:

[roaddoglabs.com]

[reprap.org]

[reprap.org]

Mind you this specifies the rework but if you note closely it's pretty much the same except M8 threaded rods have been tossed for M10 threaded rods. The end result is a bit sturdier. Now if you want really sturdy then an I3 steel is good... same parts for the Y-Axis and the extruder and carriage, the rest of the parts are not needed.

I started out with a Auroa Z605.
MY wife was going to get me a makerbot, but it was just way over price IMO.

I got the Z605 and had trouble getting it up and working but once i did it was a nice printer.
i added a auto leveling with an inductive sensor for a few bucks. And the printer works great. Wasnt any parts to replace just a few to upgrade tho.

So check into that.

Take a long on Thingivers.com
You see a ton of things to print and upgrades for printers
And most printers use G-code.
A simple text file that tells the printer how to move. Kinda like a gps.

But check into all that. Once you get your first printer you can always print out parts for a new one.

Ok, here's a little update.

Thank you very much for your advice. I really wanted to make the printer from scratch, but my friends, with whom I'm working on this project, were a little skeptical, so we decided to get a kit after all.

Our choice was a Chinese "rip-off" of Afinibot:

Aliexpress Afinibot Prusa i3

This seller's devices get high marks so we decided to trust them on this one. We'll start from there and we will see which parts will need to be replaced in the first place.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2015 08:14PM by Diabl0.

Looks good! Price is right... start saving for a frame though!

Good luck! I have a feeling you're going to need it...

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Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]

Quote
Diabl0
Ok, here's a little update.

Thank you very much for your advice. I really wanted to make the printer from scratch, but my friends, with whom I'm working on this project, were a little skeptical, so we decided to get a kit after all.

Our choice was a Chinese "rip-off" of Afinibot:

Aliexpress Afinibot Prusa i3

This seller's devices get high marks so we decided to trust them on this one. We'll start from there and we will see which parts will need to be replaced in the first place.

Don't buy for him.. Main board have problem.

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lsklam77
Don't buy for him.. Main board have problem.

What kind of problems do people get? Did you buy from them? I think that considering the price, if something goes wrong with the main board, we can afford replacing it.

acrylic frames are bad, they warp, crack, and shatter

People only buy them as they are cheap and shiny, and all regret it.

That I know, we will replace the acrylic parts as soon as possible.

Wow, lead screws, pillow block bearings, and part cooling fan included. That's quite the deal for the money. If you do have to replace some parts you'll probably still be doing ok. I'm not familiar with the Melzi board, but those screw connectors look like a better bet than the push fit ones on Ramps.

Thanks, after reading what you wrote I felt a little more comfortable with that decision.

I think you just have to take the plunge and have a go you learn everything you need to along the way and there's plenty of people who can and will help. I bought a second hand i3 with laser cut metal frame as my first printer and whilst I didn't build it, it did need almost a complete overhaul to get working, many many upgrades later it prints great and looks great. I'd agree with the comments about the frame that acrylic looks pretty flimsy, I think the more you print, and the more the print quality/speed/accuracy matters to you the more utilitarian and solid looking printer will be more attractive.

I now also have a delta and am very keen to try building a corexy printer too.

Keep us posted.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2015 04:12PM by DjDemonD.

Considering my complete lack of knowledge I am sure I will have questions. A lot of questions. But for now, I'll be playing the game of waiting because the package can take up to 30 days to arrive. I think I will spend that time reading forums and watching YouTube tutorials.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2015 06:30PM by Diabl0.

The description of the printer you bought says nothing about a heated bed, so you will have to add that. The pictures of printed objects show temps for a heated bed but it's not listed in the components. Considering your initial comment that you know nothing about 3D printing, I'm glad you at least decided to get a kit, albeit probably a disappointing kit from the stand point of the acrylic frame, lack of info on the extruder, lack of information about programming/modifying Melzi boards compared to the plethora of info on Marlin/Arduino boards on here.

You should have gotten a Folger Tech 2020 aluminum frame kit IMHO. It's a very sturdy, reliable kit. Oh well, good luck. One word of warning about buying from someone on Aliexpress. Do NOT accept or initiate any disputes with the seller until you have the kit in hand. If you accept a dispute, you have lost all bargaining points in case something is wrong. I've bought many things through Aliexpress and got screwed one time lately.

The specs list "heating plate temperature 50-110C", but I agree there isn't much mention elsewhere of the heatbed. I think I see a wire running to the back of the bed in the photos, which is presumably a MK3. I guess the OP will let us know when it arrives

Quote
JamesK
The specs list "heating plate temperature 50-110C", but I agree there isn't much mention elsewhere of the heatbed. I think I see a wire running to the back of the bed in the photos, which is presumably a MK3. I guess the OP will let us know when it arrives

Yea, my mistake for pulling the trigger too soon on that one. It DOES look like it has a heated bed.

About the heated bed - I was making sure that it was included when I was getting ready to order it. At least they said it was.

Thank you for the warning about sellers. I hope I will not need to start any dispute with them.

This Folger Tech 2020 looks sweet, I wish I had known about its existence before I ordered from Aliexpress. Oh well, we'll see what this Chinese kit will look like.

EDIT: The price for Folger Tech 2020 is very similar, but shipping cost from the USA to Europe would be too high for me, I think.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2015 10:39AM by Diabl0.