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An alternative to printed parts?

Posted by drmaestro 
An alternative to printed parts?
March 25, 2016 02:44AM
Hi,

I was wondering if there is an alternative to the printed parts in Reprap printers. I know that it is against the philosophy of the Reprap to introduce non self-replicable parts but would it be better to increase the build quality? I haven't seen any injection molded plastics being sold, even for the most popular designs, so I assume this option is very expensive somehow. I also haven't seen a lot of metal structural parts.

Thanks.
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
March 25, 2016 05:39AM
kossel printers you will find injection moulded and alluminium parts


Check my rubbish blog for my prusa i3

up and running
[3dimetech.blogspot.co.uk]
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
March 25, 2016 05:50AM
injection moulding is for when you want hundreds of millions of a part

Reprap parts change far to often and the demand isn’t that high. Also most parts would need to be redesigned as they are not suitable for injection moulding
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
March 25, 2016 09:08AM
I have never bought into the reprap philosophy because it is incompatible with maximizing print quality. I realized early on that joining metal frame members with plastic parts was a bad idea. I would not even consider using wood or plastic to build the frame of the machine. I also felt that "active" plastic parts such as parts that must withstand hear and mechanical force or require precise and accurate sizing were not a good idea. I've eliminated end-supported guide rails (I started with 1/2" rails and quickly decided they were too flexible), and almost every plastic part in the machine. I used cast aluminum tooling plate for the bed, designed my own leveling scheme, and replaced round rails with linear guides.

Contrary to common belief, it is not that expensive to build a machine this way. I spent maybe $1200 on my machine including parts that were in for a while then replaced. I think my machine could be duplicated for $800-900 if one is resourceful and willing to look for parts in nontraditional sources such as scrap yards, where I got many of the parts in my machine. I have access to machine tools at the Milwaukee Makerspace that have been very useful in building my printer. Machining has actually been minimal- simple milling and drilling operations are alI I have used because they are all I know how to do.


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
March 26, 2016 06:10PM
See the thread on 'Laser cut Aluminium X-Arm & Rib kits....' at [forums.reprap.org] for a more rigid x-arm and the imminent aluminium y-axis end pieces.
I haven't received mine yet but they look like they are going to make my ormerod 1 a much better machine.
Peter
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
March 26, 2016 08:37PM
There is also the p3steel frame [reprap.org]
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
April 02, 2016 12:13AM
I built mine from basically junk, and it's easily 10x stiffer than the kossels I've encountered and jams far less than the one at our makerspace.
One off printers, AL is the king. Not that hard either.
Production is an order of magnitude more expensive I'm finding though...

[hackaday.io]
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
June 14, 2018 01:34AM
Wood works if you know how to use it. I actually carved an extruder out of a chunk of old 2x4. What can I say, i'm a cheapskate smiling smiley
I'll let you know how it works when I get the rest of the printer built.
VDX
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
June 14, 2018 02:44AM
Quote
Dust
injection moulding is for when you want hundreds of millions of a part

... did some tests with the Drader injectiweld "Super fast Injection Moulding Prototyping" kit - [www.orbi-tech.de]

It's usable with smaller series too.

Here an image with some of the results (can't show more for NDA) - the outer radius was something like 20mm:




Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org]
Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
June 14, 2018 03:50AM
At least one guy is current making some some sort of I3 mk2 clone with cast alu

So thats another option...

If you want to see take a look at myfordboy yourtube channel
casting the extruder [www.youtube.com]
making the frame [www.youtube.com]
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
June 23, 2018 08:34AM
Where are you getting your printed steppers, controllers, wiring, rods and bearings. The RepRap idea is nuts!
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
June 24, 2018 10:32AM
Quote
cwaa
Where are you getting your printed steppers, controllers, wiring, rods and bearings. The RepRap idea is nuts!
The RepRap idea is not to make a 100% self replicating printer but to build printers that are capable of printing many of the needed parts to build them.
That aside, nowadays you can print motors, wires, bearings, bushings. Some of these only on high end or specialty printers, but 3D printing is still growing. Give it another 10-15 years and we will be able to print ALL parts of a 3D printer, including electronics etc.
What RepRap achieved is to make 3D printers cheap and to introduce 3D printing to the masses, hardly a nutty idea given the size of the market that developed from it.


[www.bonkers.de]
[merlin-hotend.de]
[www.hackerspace-ffm.de]
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
June 24, 2018 12:55PM
100% wrong

The entire idea behind reprap is a completely self replicating machine.

all this 3d printer stuff is a off track diversion...
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
June 24, 2018 03:47PM
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
June 24, 2018 11:06PM
"The stated goal of the RepRap project is to produce a pure self-replicating device"

from the linked page
VDX
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
June 25, 2018 03:15AM
... for a "pure self-replicating device" better look into "replicating" of the structures and behaviour of a squid from soft silicone, a pump and valve-grids ... not so with motors and linear rails ...


Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org]
Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]
VDX
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
June 26, 2018 02:14AM
... here some old ideas for "artificial muscles" to replace motors and other (yet non-printable) structural parts - [reprap.org]


Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org]
Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
July 13, 2018 06:53PM
RepRap is not done yet!
Hackers are continually experimenting. The open source nature of the printers makes mistakes relatively inexpensive, which should speed up experimentation and discovery. We are already printing metal, what next? Semiconductors? The whole concept is exciting.

If you want an inspirational (aspirational?) view of the RepRap "movement" read the "Bobiverse" series, "I am Legion (I am Bob)", "For We are Many" and "All These Worlds".
Of course, to reach this level a few more things need invented. smiling smiley

DLC
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
July 14, 2018 10:55AM
What is a kossel printer?
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
July 16, 2018 07:28PM
A kossel is a delta, similar to how the prusa is a mendel style printer, etc.
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
July 16, 2018 11:54PM
You would think after all the years of development of stock shapes like motor mount & idler, carriages...there would be some convergence of designs of the basic parts....which would then be mass produced and sold cheap, but I understand how tricky it is to cover all bases with so many variables in rods & rails, but I was kinda hoping that some kind of convergence would sort out the wheat from the chaff and reduce the manufacture of variety for the sake of it (for want of a better way to describe it...Homogenized ? Evolved? ) Communist Design, Made to Last, Multi-function, Modular Bits

Though Variety is the Spice Melange

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2018 01:07AM by MechaBits.
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
July 17, 2018 03:20PM
Yeah, you'd think so.

|This is not the case in the slightest though. Also some things that I kind of thought were standard, or at least common don't seem to be, either. I'm trying to replace the hot end throat on my printer, only to discover that it's unlike any of the "standard" parts that I can easily buy. Of course the manufacturer has vanished (Which they seem to do after a short time.) The solution here is that I can either machine the part that I have to take the parts that I can buy, or machine a part to replace the one that I can't. Neither solution is particularly appealing.

Printed parts do suffer from a number of problems, from strength and rigidity to accuracy for material, and in some cases, the lack of ability to have certain shapes. Injection molded parts also suffer from the inability to have certain shapes as well, but in general they're not as limited. They also need to be solid, as do machined parts, whereas printed parts can have at least very low infill rates with a solid shell.

I've been looking at lost PLA casting processes. I was looking into doing a home made foundry in order to turn printed parts into solid metal ones. It doesn't look as hard as I had feared it might be, and PLA seems to be a reasonable medium for casting. I had also spent some time looking into the possibility of casting in wax for more traditional lost wax casting processes. I think that these casting methods show some promise for turning 3D printed parts into something with some possibility for making very durable parts. I was also looking at ways to 3D print molds for resin based plastics. Not quite as good as injection molded, but some pretty good results seem to be possible, and if you design the molds right, they should be reusable.


MBot3D Printer
Kit from Amazon
Added heated bed.

I3 beltless redesign (in progress)
Duet Wifi, Precision Piezo parts
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
July 17, 2018 04:15PM
Quote
the_digital_dentist
I have never bought into the reprap philosophy because it is incompatible with maximizing print quality. .................

I appreciate the sentiment but that's a hell of a thing to say on the RepRap forums don't you think?


[somei3deas.wordpress.com]
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
July 17, 2018 08:25PM
How is that opinion harmful or disrespectful. I feel the same way.....should I bow my head and shuffle away?
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
July 18, 2018 03:24PM
The opinions as such are not disrespectful, who could disagree with trying to get as much quality as possible in a 3D print. Having said that, it makes me sad that many of the regulars express a dislike of the underlying philosophy of the RepRap organization. Commonly expressed opinions are that glass build stages, 8 bit controllers, round rods as guides and printed components are all rubbish; anybody trying anything new is wasting their time; the only kinematic system worth considering is "Cartesian/Delta/HBot/CoreXY/SCARA etc.. Missed out entirely in all of this opinionating is that this forum exists and was created for the development of inexpensive printers and the knowledge base of how to make them:
Mike.
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
July 18, 2018 04:02PM
Quote
leadinglights
The opinions as such are not disrespectful, who could disagree with trying to get as much quality as possible in a 3D print. Having said that, it makes me sad that many of the regulars express a dislike of the underlying philosophy of the RepRap organization. Commonly expressed opinions are that glass build stages, 8 bit controllers, round rods as guides and printed components are all rubbish; anybody trying anything new is wasting their time; the only kinematic system worth considering is "Cartesian/Delta/HBot/CoreXY/SCARA etc.. Missed out entirely in all of this opinionating is that this forum exists and was created for the development of inexpensive printers and the knowledge base of how to make them:
Mike.

You put that much more eloquently than I could and I totally agree. Without the likes of Adrian Bowyer and other early RepRappers, we wouldn't be where we are today. So although as I said, I agree with the sentiment of building better quality printers, I do think it disrespectful to decry the RepRap philosophy here on the RepRap forums.


[somei3deas.wordpress.com]
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
July 18, 2018 07:06PM
Jeese guys,

There is plenty of room in here for everyone's ideas. Let us NOT mimic external politics and say there are only two ways!
RepRap came into being as a way to bring cheap replication to the masses. _One_ of its ideals was getting printers to make printers, a great way to make printers cheap, right? Everything else is innovation. Printing metal, integrated circuits, motor components, etc. are the holy grails of RepRap. Lots of innovations, small and large, some printable, some not, move the whole thing along.
In my opinion, printers able to make parts that robots can assemble into other printers as well as lots of other things are the great combo. We have metal filaments, carbon fiber filaments, flexible, rigid, glow-in-the-dark, clear, etc. filaments. Now, when we have print heads that can select particular elements to print, oh boy. Those innovations will likely not come from a printer printing them, but will hopefully end up there. I think my hopes for 3D printers may spin pretty far past what the originators of the movement envisioned. It all sounds good to me.
So.
I think RepRap has a big enought building to hold all of the things that we do and fiddle with. So we can argue and compare, but don't take it personally like you aren't welcome. I am sure all of us have pals that have said something to "light our hair on fire", they are still welcome at the pub, so are all of you.
Hmm, maybe what we need IS a pub?

IMO,
DLC

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2018 09:06PM by dlc60.
VDX
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
July 18, 2018 07:11PM
... the "RepRap philosophy" is not set in stone!

The original idea was to motivate people to familiarize themselves with the subject and to spread the word -- this was also intended to start an "evolution" that would lead to (at that time completely unknown) advances and new concepts.

I think that has worked out quite well so far, right? winking smiley


Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org]
Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
July 19, 2018 08:12AM
I think there are printers out there that follow along with the reprap philosophy of self replicating as much of itself as possible quite well. I occasionally come across projects that surprise me with how much of the design is actually printed. How the resulting print quality compares to perhaps something digital dentist would make I'm unsure, but there are new filaments each year that come out with improved mechanical properties (ie CF infused filaments etc). So, I think with a clever enough design high quality prints can be achieved on such a printer, the question then would be how perceptible would the difference in quality/accuracy be?
Re: An alternative to printed parts?
July 19, 2018 10:57AM
When did RepRap become so important? I started in 3d printing 3 years ago and didn't use anything from Rep Rap. How is that possible? Well I researched 3d printing for a while and learned a lesson in rigidity. Making frames with plastic joints is not going to make a quality printer. You may be able to print, but it will be a toy needing constant calibration. So if you want to experiment and play with RepRap designs go ahead. I wanted to build a high quality printer that would be stable and not require high levels of maintenance. I got my materials from Openbuilds and used Smoothieware. So if your objective is a high quality printer, you have to put the RepRap slogan away. If that means I don't belong here, fine with me. You can ban me, but the slogan is still not reasonable unless you want to play with toys!
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