Extruder problem it's moving weird, please help (Solved)

I am using generation 3 electronics , nema 17 motors.
The motor of the extruder move back and forward instead of turning one way.
The motor move back and forward for a few seconds and then do not move just vibrate and make noise.
Its not a motor problem i checked it.
I looked and looked in the net and reprap forum and i don't know what to do.
Please help.
Thanks in advance Shay.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2011 06:20PM by MacWoodIsrael.

... have you set DIR and CLOCK on the right pins (D9/D10)?

... have you tested with reversing one coil?

... is the current high enough so it can turn a full sequence?

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Viktor
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D9/D10 is connected to the right pins i think , there is 6 pins for d9/d10.
I think i connected them right two lights are blinking when i push the extrude button on.

Wich wires can i reverse in the motor?
It's now connected like this: 1A=black , 1B=green , 2A=red and 2B=blue
All of my motors are like this now and the XYZ works.

How can i know if the current is high enough so it can turn a full sequence?
I am a noob in all of this.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2010 05:01PM by MacWoodIsrael.

Seems like the problem in this thread: [forums.reprap.org]

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

Where did you get the GEN3 electronics from? - and have you made sure the Analogue GND is connected correctly on the Extruder board (some PCB's had a fault where it was not connected - German GRRF ones had this problem) and what you describe above was similar to one of the symptoms I observed without the AGND connected correctly.

And you also make sure you have a good GND from the Extruder to the Mainboard.

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[richrap.blogspot.com]

I seen this , i didn't fined a solution that works for me in there.

What is GND ?
I am a noob sorry.

I got my electronics from raysyu in ebay.

MacWoodIsrael Wrote:
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> I seen this , i didn't fined a solution that works
> for me in there.

Did you try this diagnostic test?

Quote

To diagnose the first fault disconnect the black and green as see if it changes. Then repeat with the red and blue disconnected. If one of your driver outputs is dead then one test will behave as it does now and the other will not move at all.

Always turn the power off when connecting or disconnecting the motor.

If so what was the result?

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

It's dead in both of the test's.
The motor move back and forward when all the wires are connected.

i had this trouble running a stepper extruder through replicator and never solved it, works fine in reprap though. now i use a seperate stepper driver.

you probably have already done this but check the specs of your motor and check that you are wiring its coils in the right order, you want 1A=A+ , 1B=A- , 2A=B+ and 2B=B-

Can you tell me this in colors ?
1A=color ??? , 1B=color ??? , 2A=color ??? and 2B=color ???
I have it now like this:
1A=black , 1B=green , 2A=red , 2B=blue
And this works in the XYZ but not in the extruder.

I tryed doing the test with out connecting the motor and the 2 lights are blinking , up light , down light , up , down ...
fast.
And then they both stay on.
So the problem can't be the motors wires.

I am using the reprap host software for windows.
I tryed different versions of this software.
I don't know what to do.

I have an ATX 2 Power Supply
I didn't do this:
Also, as with the ATX supply the sense wires need to be connected. There will generally be a 3.3V connector (orange or brown on pin 13) which needs to be connected to 3.3V (orange). On the ATX 2 power supplies, there may also be additional sense wires that need to be connected to the corresponding voltage. These are usually thinner wires, and should be connected to a wire of the same colour.
From this link:
[reprap.org]
Can this be the problem ?

Hey MacWood

Are you plugging your 20 pin ATX supply directly into the Makerbot configured mG3 motherboard? If so you don't need to make these modifications...

well the colours of the wires /order of coils will vary depending on supplier, but if it's working on your XYZ axis then it should work on your extruder. Have you played with the extruder boards potentiometer?

No , i didn't played with the extruder boards potentiometer.
Should i play with it ?
Can it burn some thing ?
Should i connect pin1 to pin 11 in the ATX 2 Power Supply ?
Thanks every one for trying to help.

I don't think connecting the sense pin on the PSU will make any difference unless you are using the 3.3V rail. I have never bothered and any sane PSU design would connect them in the PSU with a low value resistor so that it works without it connected, but is more accurate if it is connected. Having said that there is not much sanity in the PC world.

Yes you need to "play" with the pot and yes you can burn the driver chips or the motor if it is set wrong. For some reason some people seem to think these come pre-calibrated to some sensible value. As it depends on the motor that will not be the case.

Start with the current low and increase slowly it until the chips get hot, but not too hot to touch. If the motor then works leave it on for a while and see if that gets too hot to touch. Both the chips and the motor will run at higher temperatures but I like mine to stay below 50C.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

Pictures of my wooden mendel:





I hope it will work today.
I need to organize all the wires , i will do that when the mendel will work.
I should had build an Eiffel or a WolfStrap.
building a wooden mendel is to hard and take alot more time.
I don't recommend building a wooden mendel.

nophead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think connecting the sense pin on the PSU
> will make any difference unless you are using the
> 3.3V rail. I have never bothered and any sane PSU
> design would connect them in the PSU with a low
> value resistor so that it works without it
> connected, but is more accurate if it is
> connected. Having said that there is not much
> sanity in the PC world.
>
> Yes you need to "play" with the pot and yes you
> can burn the driver chips or the motor if it is
> set wrong. For some reason some people seem to
> think these come pre-calibrated to some sensible
> value. As it depends on the motor that will not be
> the case.
>
> Start with the current low and increase slowly it
> until the chips get hot, but not too hot to touch.
> If the motor then works leave it on for a while
> and see if that gets too hot to touch. Both the
> chips and the motor will run at higher
> temperatures but I like mine to stay below 50C.

I played with the potentiometer all the way up almost , it just made the motor move faster but still back and forward.

How can i check the extruder board ?
To know if something is wrong or burn.
If the board is the problem i will send it back to the seller to get a replacement.

When you say "backwards and forwards", how far is it moving? If you apply some load, say by holding the shaft with your fingers does it still move, or does it vibrate on the spot?

It makes no sense that it goes faster with more current. Stepper motors don't do that.

When you said "It's dead in both of the test's. " was it complete un-energised? With only one coil connected it should mostly vibrate on the spot, but if the speed it right it can rotate in a random direction, but not with any load. If one of your drive chips was damaged then with one coil at a time connected one should have been dead and the other the same as with it connected. The fact you say both were dead implies the colours are wrong on motor. But then you said the motor works on other drivers. Something does not make sense here. I don't want to be rude, but are you colour blind? If you have swapped the red and green then it could explain all the symptoms.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

nophead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When you say "backwards and forwards", how far is
> it moving? If you apply some load, say by holding
> the shaft with your fingers does it still move, or
> does it vibrate on the spot?
>
> It makes no sense that it goes faster with more
> current. Stepper motors don't do that.
>
> When you said "It's dead in both of the test's. "
> was it complete un-energised? With only one coil
> connected it should mostly vibrate on the spot,
> but if the speed it right it can rotate in a
> random direction, but not with any load. If one of
> your drive chips was damaged then with one coil at
> a time connected one should have been dead and the
> other the same as with it connected. The fact you
> say both were dead implies the colours are wrong
> on motor. But then you said the motor works on
> other drivers. Something does not make sense here.
> I don't want to be rude, but are you colour blind?
> If you have swapped the red and green then it
> could explain all the symptoms.

My motor wires was reversed , i fixed it and did the test that you told me to do.
I have the NEMA17 - SY42STH47-1684B and i wired it like the standard motor.

When i disconnect the black and green the motor did the some back and forward move ,
Then when i disconnect the red and blue the motor didn't do anything.
What does it mean ?

It means either the black and green coil is not working or the chip driving black and green is dead. You can tell by wiring the black and green to the other two outputs.

The most likely things is that one of the two A3949 chips is dead, assuming the firmware is correct. This seems to be common because a loose motor connection, or turning the pot too high, or possibly running the wrong firmware can blow the chip.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

I use NEMA17 - SY42STH47-1684B-1, correct connection for extruder is: 1A - green, 1B - black, 2A - blue, 2B - red. I use Wade geared NEMA 17 extruder and Gen 3 electronic from Techzone. To avoid vibration I reduce current using potentiometer. All works fine.

Correct connection for X,Y axis: 1A - black, 1B - green, 2A - red, 2B - blue.
Correct connection for Z axis: 1A - red, 1B - blue, 2A - black, 2B - green (I use LaserCut RepRap, maybe in standard RepRap is other).

If you extruder board don't have potentiometer, you may use ExtruderX_ExtrusionPWM parameter in RepRap Host software (from 0 to 1) for best result.

I removed the heat sink from the A3949 chips and 7 legs of the 16 in one of the chips are without soldering.
I think this is the problem , i will take it to someone to fix is tomorow.
I hope that will fix the problem.
I will have to have a talk with the seller about this.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2010 07:29AM by MacWoodIsrael.

AlexeyShokarev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I use NEMA17 - SY42STH47-1684B-1, correct
> connection for extruder is: 1A - green, 1B -
> black, 2A - blue, 2B - red. I use Wade geared NEMA
> 17 extruder and Gen 3 electronic from Techzone. To
> avoid vibration I reduce current using
> potentiometer. All works fine.
>
> Correct connection for X,Y axis: 1A - black, 1B -
> green, 2A - red, 2B - blue.
> Correct connection for Z axis: 1A - red, 1B -
> blue, 2A - black, 2B - green (I use LaserCut
> RepRap, maybe in standard RepRap is other).
>
> If you extruder board don't have potentiometer,
> you may use ExtruderX_ExtrusionPWM parameter in
> RepRap Host software (from 0 to 1) for best
> result.

Your motors connections do not make
sense to me.
YXZ are label ABCD not 1A 1B 2A 2B.
And how can you connect the XY motors in a different order from the motor Z and the Extruder ?
Do you use 4 different types of motors ?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2010 03:26AM by MacWoodIsrael.

There are many way you can wire the motor that will work. As long as one coil is across the first two pins and the other coil across the second two pins the motor will spin. Swapping the polarity of either coil will change the spin direction as will exchanging the two coils.

So I think there are 24 possible combinations of connecting the wires, 8 will spin and 4 of those will be backwards,

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

We solder the 7 pins in the A3949 chip.
It didn't fix the problem.
I am sending the extruder board to the seller and he will replace it with no charge.