Printing temp versus adhension

I've been printing a long time using same vendor ABS. Spec 220-260 degrees print temp.
Using print temp 240 C. Having no problems.
Now I tried out a new vendor ABS with spec 200-230 degrees C
Clear transparent 3mm
I get problem with adhension. First llike 30 layers look just fine. It's just that after 1 hour, of my total 2 hour print time, the object cut loose from heated bed ... ruined printout.
Like at height 10 mm.
Started using 230 degree C.
30-60 min printouts work ok.
Adjusting Z zero height did not help
A haven't experimented at all using different print out degree since before I had no problem
What is your experience on print temp. Like what effect to observer at lowes limit or highest limet ?
I print on plain glass heated bed 95 degrees C .
Do you think I can fix my problem by adjustin print temp or bed temp ?
Or is it just less good filament with this new vendor ?

The attach is what it's supposed to be when NOT failing

Ha det gött
Bosse

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2017 09:42AM by sidhabo.

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Prusa i3 Reworked, Delivered March 28 2014, RAMPS 1.4
Göteborg, Sweden

I set the bed for 105C for the first layer and drops to 90C for remaining layers. The printer has a cast aluminum bed with a 1.5 mm layer of PEI on the surface. First layer print speed is usually 25-30 mm/sec. The hot-end is usually set to 240C for the first layer and 230 or 235 for remaining layers.

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Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]

Quote
the_digital_dentist
I set the bed for 105C for the first layer and drops to 90C for remaining layers. The printer has a cast aluminum bed with a 1.5 mm layer of PEI on the surface. First layer print speed is usually 25-30 mm/sec. The hot-end is usually set to 240C for the first layer and 230 or 235 for remaining layers.

Ok, so basically little more hot on the first layer will improve adhension

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Prusa i3 Reworked, Delivered March 28 2014, RAMPS 1.4
Göteborg, Sweden

Heat and low speed usually do the job, but don't leave it too hot for the remaining layers or you'll have elephant footing.

Classic example:



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2017 12:35PM by the_digital_dentist.

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Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]

Quote
the_digital_dentist
Heat and low speed usually do the job, but don't leave it too hot for the remaining layers or you'll have elephant footing.

Ok, good info. I just had a go doing 215 C . Same fail ....
I'll try start with 230 and go maybe 205 after 2-3 layers

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Prusa i3 Reworked, Delivered March 28 2014, RAMPS 1.4
Göteborg, Sweden

That sounds too cold for ABS. I print my ABS at 240c mainly. Heck even my PLA I run at 214c

Quote
Floyd
That sounds too cold for ABS. I print my ABS at 240c mainly. Heck even my PLA I run at 214c

I also always do 240 for ABS
Just that this one last ABS I bought is speced to do 200 - 230 C ...
Hm, maybe it's a wrong spec. I'll try 240 C and see what happens

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Prusa i3 Reworked, Delivered March 28 2014, RAMPS 1.4
Göteborg, Sweden

Temperature readings from one printer to another will vary widely. It is best to experiment with the settings to use for your printer. I like to print single walled tubes and vary the extruder temperature in 5 degree steps as the print gets taller. When it is finished, I take it apart. You'll find that at temperatures that are too cool, the print layers will peel apart easily. At temperatures that are too hot the surface finish will suffer. Use one of the middle temperatures (usually within a 15-20C range that works fine).

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Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]

If you get too cold then instead of the plastic flowing out the tip, you end of more or less just cramming it in there and it extrudes and adheres terribly.

Is your printer enclosed?

Quote
etfrench
Is your printer enclosed?

Nope, normally not. Not in conjunction to this problem. I do have a housing that I can use if needed. I use it typically for printing that is thin walled ( 2-5 mm ) and pretty high like 10-15 cm

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2017 06:06PM by sidhabo.

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Prusa i3 Reworked, Delivered March 28 2014, RAMPS 1.4
Göteborg, Sweden

Ok here we go again. I got the problem after change of Vendor / filament. Focus on that as the problem.
Which may times is a good idea ... what has last changed since all was good ?
Just to get back to base I tried my normal setup and filament.
Still had the problem
So I'm back to zero. Something else is causing the problem. Nothing to do with change of filament ....
Same kind of problem for same printout ...... that was working before numerous times.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2017 06:13PM by sidhabo.

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Prusa i3 Reworked, Delivered March 28 2014, RAMPS 1.4
Göteborg, Sweden

Problem sorted. I did one other change just before testing the transparent filament.
My glass on heated bed cracked so I changed it.
To a totally exact same Prusa spare part.
So I couldn't really see that would cause any problem.

Anyway when I had a close look at the new glass bed I found it was like half a millimeter off the heated bed surface in one corner.
The new glass was just not exact flat. It wobbled just a bit from one corner to the other when it was laying loose on the heat bed.
I rearranged it and put some better clips to hold it good down at all sides.
First print after that was good. All 5 before that was failing.
So I'm pretty much sure I did find the problem.
Guess the learning is heated bed/glass temp problem can give this strange problem that adhension cut loose like after more that 1 hour printing.

Thanks all for feedback. It help a lot to give new ideas for troubleshooting

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Prusa i3 Reworked, Delivered March 28 2014, RAMPS 1.4
Göteborg, Sweden

I'm pretty sure it was the bed under the glass that was bent. I'll bet the bed has 4 leveling screws...

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Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]

Quote
the_digital_dentist
I'm pretty sure it was the bed under the glass that was bent. I'll bet the bed has 4 leveling screws...

Yes, I agree. Have to recheck glass leveling again.

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Prusa i3 Reworked, Delivered March 28 2014, RAMPS 1.4
Göteborg, Sweden

Well that last print wasn't good after all. Just that it printed until end. But one side had too bad warping.
Like the wall ended up 10 mm high, on warp side, instead of 12 .
So I had to continue trouble shoot. I will share some learning below
Yes the heated bed were a little level off. So after adjusting I have even warping all way around and the object cut loose before print end.

Setting I did NOT change during trouble shoot.
print speed 50
bottom layer print speed 20
nozzle 0.4
layer height 0.3
flow 100%
fill density 100

This had small or no impact on the problem

change hot end temp 240 -> 225
reload firmware
adjusting Z zero height ( 0.5 mm steps )

This almost fix it but still some small ( acceptable ) warping

Put printer inside housing air temp inside got to 37 C
I made 5 cuts ( 5 mm ) in the wall even spaced around


Only total fix was

Using PLA instead of ABS

Still not sure why it was printing good before and not now. Only guess I have is I replaced the glass cover on heated bed.
May some small difference in heat spec or the surface .....

Ha det gött
Bosse

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2017 10:27AM by sidhabo.

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Prusa i3 Reworked, Delivered March 28 2014, RAMPS 1.4
Göteborg, Sweden

Quote
the_digital_dentist
I'm pretty sure it was the bed under the glass that was bent. I'll bet the bed has 4 leveling screws...

I had this structure once, really sucks. Broke my heated bed support. Now i have 3 leveling screws in a equally sided triangular structure and no problems. Also solved the problems that i had to level each print. These days i rarely level my bed.

Quote
Evan

Quote
the_digital_dentist
I'm pretty sure it was the bed under the glass that was bent. I'll bet the bed has 4 leveling screws...

I had this structure once, really sucks. Broke my heated bed support. Now i have 3 leveling screws in a equally sided triangular structure and no problems. Also solved the problems that i had to level each print. These days i rarely level my bed.

Ok thanks, that's good info. Make sense with 3 level screws

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Prusa i3 Reworked, Delivered March 28 2014, RAMPS 1.4
Göteborg, Sweden