Experiences with building and using the E3D Titan extruder (Bowden)

What do the people out there think of the E3D titan geared extruder? I got the universal kit and sketched up my own Bowden adapter, I didn't think theirs was worth $16 just to make it a Bowden. My hack works fine.

I will start out the discussion. I got one of these a couple of weeks ago to replace my DIY geared extruder that was made of PLA because I wanted to enclose my printer for ABS printing. This is the geared extruder I have been using on my Folgertech Kossel 2020 for several months:
[www.thingiverse.com]
It is a 3.54:1 (more-or-less) extruder that works very well.

Build Impressions:
In a nutshell, meh.
I found the build instructions confusing, screws, spacers, washers, whatever. The section about Bowden seemed to forget that it was about the Bowden adapter, fortunately having built a geared Bowden extruder of my own, I was familiar with what needed to be done.
One really odd part of the build is the screw that goes through the large gear. There are no stops on this part of the build that prevent binding the large gear. If you tighten the screw down too far, the gear won't move, so you have to go by "feel" on how tight it should be.

Operation:
As usual, the steps/mm calculation is "ideal world", you still have to tune to your system to get is to work the way you want it. Which is cool, again, I had to do this with my DIY geared extruder; no matter how well you can use your calipers, it isn't quite what you think it is... This went without a hitch.
Remember that screw through the large gear and associated bearings? Yeah, mine backed out after a few hours of use. I didn't expect this and didn't notice it until the extruder started making odd noises and when I looked at it, it had backed almost all the way out! I tightened it down, again, by "feel" as to how tight it should be without causing the gear to bind. This is not optimal design. My DIY extruder had the large gear bolt tightened by "feel", but it used a Nylock nut so the screw stayed where you put it. This bolt on the Titan has no such fail-safe, the screw will probably keep doing this until I use a lock nut to hold it on - Which is not ideal, you do not want biting hardware used on plastic, so that means a flat washer and then a lock washer to keep things in place.

Calibrations:
My XYZ 20mm cal cube came out pretty good after two tries. Not as nice as with my old geared extruder, but pretty close. I was printing ABS, which is a struggle with my current setup, so I can't blame the extruder on its flaws.

I ran 5 "Benchy" prints through using ABS until I got results 90% good. This is certainly not all the Titan's fault. You need to match filament, to extruder speed, to temperature, to print speed... I had this filament down cold with my old geared extruder, I needed to fiddle with extrusion rate, temperature and print speed all over again with the Titan. But it still would not do a good job on the stern section of Benchy with ABS. I think that I just don't have it quite down because my first build of Benchy using MakerGeeks "Raptor" PLA looks great. I wonder if this different color of ABS from eSun giving me issues, more experimentation is needed.

In general, meh. I think that I would have been just as good or better off by just reprinting my "old" geared extruder in ABS. The Titan however is way smaller, which is cool, but you can't put a heat sink on the stepper like I could on the Thing that I built, which is a drag. I have "tie-wrapped" a heat sink to the side of my Titan stepper, which is doing the job, but looks kinda hinky...
I would give the E3D Titan a 'B'. The bolt that backs out, the gear that can get bound up if over tightened and the closed off stepper are all issues that pull that back from an 'A' for me. Packing, construction and parts are all 'A+'.

IMO,
DLC

I just picked up a standard and mirrored titan for my build.

It is a very clever design, and they have gone to extreme lengths to keep it compact. As you noted, one of the mounting screws runs through the drive gear shaft; the idler pivots on the motor shaft and slides against the gear as well.

After seeing a genuine Titan I would be cautious with off-brand clones. E3D uses lubricant-impregnated delrin to ensure the fits don't wear over time - I highly doubt Aliexpress does the same.

I've been looking for this kind of product for a while. I think it has limited advantages as a bowden extruder, but the size/weight savings for direct drive are substantial.

"but you can't put a heat sink on the stepper like I could on the Thing that I built, which is a drag"
reduce the current to the driver, I've ran 3 T clones for 18 hrs a day and the stepper just dont get hot enough to warrant a heatsink on the stepper.
as for the bolt coming loose you sure you put it in the right hole, first time ever read about one coming loose.

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jinx
"but you can't put a heat sink on the stepper like I could on the Thing that I built, which is a drag"
reduce the current to the driver, I've ran 3 T clones for 18 hrs a day and the stepper just dont get hot enough to warrant a heatsink on the stepper.
as for the bolt coming loose you sure you put it in the right hole, first time ever read about one coming loose.

I needed higher current on the extruder stepper before I started using geared extruders. I don't need that now, but I have to take a bunch of the printer apart to adjust the current, so being lazy I just added a heat sink. Now is the time to tear it apart to adjust it I suppose. :-/

There is exactly one hole in that corner to put a screw and the directions are perfectly understandable about where to put that screw.
I am going to tear the whole thing down and make a thicker spacer. The 2mm one they recommend for a non-mount plate unit is too thin.

I think the parts quality in this is quite good. I do not see as great a quality in the build instructions however. And I still have not gotten it to work as well as the geared extruder I built from a Thingiverse model. There must have been some luck involved with how simple my Thing build and tune went.

Thanks,
DLC

heres a mount with a 3mm spacing if that fails you can find a 2 mm spacer titan mount

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jinx
heres a mount with a 3mm spacing if that fails you can find a 2 mm spacer titan mount

Thanks for your effort! The E3D site has a SCAD file that allows you to gen the spacer you require. So I made a 3mm one that now allows the stepper spur gear to sit low enough to be flush with the extruder gear.

I rebuild my Titan with a longer bolt that bottoms out in the extruder shaft hole, with the included washer to close the gap to the plastic housing and now the Titan squeaks during a retraction. Sigh. I will add some washers to snug this up because I think the bearing isn't held well enough now.

Constant fiddling.

DLC

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dlc60

Quote
jinx
heres a mount with a 3mm spacing if that fails you can find a 2 mm spacer titan mount

Thanks for your effort! The E3D site has a SCAD file that allows you to gen the spacer you require. So I made a 3mm one that now allows the stepper spur gear to sit low enough to be flush with the extruder gear.

I rebuild my Titan with a longer bolt that bottoms out in the extruder shaft hole, with the included washer to close the gap to the plastic housing and now the Titan squeaks during a retraction. Sigh. I will add some washers to snug this up because I think the bearing isn't held well enough now.

Constant fiddling.

DLC

I did all that and now the Titan squeaks on retracts. Not always though, just when there are a quick sequence of retracts. Sometimes the squeaks are soft and sometimes alarmingly loud. I have taken it apart and rebuilt it twice with the same results.
I have built two other geared extruders that are variances of Thingiverse things and both have been more consistent than the "Titan". I am not overly impressed.

I will try another breakdown and see if lubing the extruder gear stops the squealing. If not I will live with it until I can craft up another extruder and file this one away as a lesson learned...

Anyone have ideas on how to get a E3D Titan extruder to stop squeaking?

DLC

As the screaching got worse I tore the extruder down to find the inside covered in red dust and lots of metal shavings.
The hearings on the extruder gear have self-destructed, which explained the metal on metal sound.
While watching the thing I noted that the filament tensioner was moving back and forth with the extraction cycle, which I found odd.

I talked with the folks at MatterHackers and they said all they could do was replace it since they didn't have repair parts. That is cool of them. In the mean time I am building another DIY geared extruder to get my system back on-line.

(Edit) good folks, but I just discovered that I got it at 3DMakerWorld, so I sent them information and will see what they will do for me. While I wait for their response I built a DIY geared extruder designed by some folks at Microchip that they used on a demo printer they have designed. Pretty simple, 5 printed parts, bobbed bolt, two springs and five screws. I love an elegant design.

I will see how the second one fares when I install it. Now if they would make a NEMA14 version that is even smaller...
I am experimenting with the Itty Bitty Belted Extruder, which is NEMA14, it is compact and I will see how it works as a Bowden extruder on a 3mm delta I am building.

DLC

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2017 10:38AM by dlc60.

I suspect you got a defective bearing to begin with, but I recommend being very careful when tightening the screw that goes through the large gear. If you over-tighten it the bearings will be destroyed.

A very approximate calculation suggests the bearings can sustain 10Kg of static load while a fully tightened M3 screw can apply around 400Kg of force.

Probably so. But now I have 90% of an extruder and some fine metal dust.
I was very careful about tightening that last screw while grumbling about a design that had no safeguards to prevent over tightening. The design is such that the blasted screw will just keep backing out. The lock washer is not much of an asset, I suspect that if one tightened it down enough to prevent the screw backing out then it might be tight enough to bind the bearings. In my case I got shredded bearings all the while having to re-tighten that screw.

Regardless, I haven't heard from 3dmakerworld in several days after I told them about the problem. I hope they respond, or I will simply have to take it as a $50 lesson learned about a particular product and be disappointed. My fingers are crossed.

Thanks,
DLC

When you get an replacement, maybe use mild thread locker to keep the screw from coming loose.

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dlc60
Probably so. But now I have 90% of an extruder and some fine metal dust.
I was very careful about tightening that last screw while grumbling about a design that had no safeguards to prevent over tightening. The design is such that the blasted screw will just keep backing out. The lock washer is not much of an asset, I suspect that if one tightened it down enough to prevent the screw backing out then it might be tight enough to bind the bearings. In my case I got shredded bearings all the while having to re-tighten that screw.

Regardless, I haven't heard from 3dmakerworld in several days after I told them about the problem. I hope they respond, or I will simply have to take it as a $50 lesson learned about a particular product and be disappointed. My fingers are crossed.

Thanks,
DLC

Out of warranty. I have ordered new bearings to replace the trashed ones. I've installed and tuned a reprap geared extruder that I had printed a week before that is working very well already, so I guess this is going to be for a future project.

DLC