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Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis?
Posted by SplatHammer
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Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? November 26, 2017 11:55AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 32 |
Since its a good idea to keep the mass of moving parts to a minimum, I was wondering if anyone had tried using a square carbon fiber
tube for the X axis? I am thinking of getting a 20x20 or so tube and mounting a linear rail on top. The advantage is extreme rigidity, light weight
and low thermal expansion. The downside would probably be attaching parts to it. The rail could be epoxied to it and I guess I could clamp it to the rail carriages
on the Y axis rails.
There are 2 types of tubes, wrapped and "pultruded" with the pultruded type looking to be the best as it is extruded
through a die so should have decent tolerances.
If anyone has tried it or has any views on the idea I would like to know!
tube for the X axis? I am thinking of getting a 20x20 or so tube and mounting a linear rail on top. The advantage is extreme rigidity, light weight
and low thermal expansion. The downside would probably be attaching parts to it. The rail could be epoxied to it and I guess I could clamp it to the rail carriages
on the Y axis rails.
There are 2 types of tubes, wrapped and "pultruded" with the pultruded type looking to be the best as it is extruded
through a die so should have decent tolerances.
If anyone has tried it or has any views on the idea I would like to know!
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Re: Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? November 26, 2017 12:08PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 257 |
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Re: Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? November 26, 2017 04:23PM |
Admin Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 7,102 |
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Re: Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? November 27, 2017 02:27AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 5,232 |
A square tube would probably be better. The rail is easier to mount and a square shape is stiffer in two directions, while a round rod is equally stiff in all directions ( no neccessary here ).
Mounting the rail could be done by blind rivets or self tapping screws. A drop of CA glue helps re-bonding the carbon fibers after drilling holes in it.
Threaded screws would be possible too, you just have to make a rig for the nuts and washers that fits into the tube. The rig could be a simple teleskope antenna with a magnet at the end.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2017 07:51AM by o_lampe.
Mounting the rail could be done by blind rivets or self tapping screws. A drop of CA glue helps re-bonding the carbon fibers after drilling holes in it.
Threaded screws would be possible too, you just have to make a rig for the nuts and washers that fits into the tube. The rig could be a simple teleskope antenna with a magnet at the end.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2017 07:51AM by o_lampe.
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Re: Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? November 27, 2017 05:33AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 32 |
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Re: Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? November 27, 2017 05:36AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 32 |
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Re: Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? November 27, 2017 05:38AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 32 |
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Re: Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? November 27, 2017 05:44AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 759 |
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Re: Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? November 27, 2017 07:57AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 5,232 |
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Re: Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? November 27, 2017 10:49AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 5,788 |
Why don't you just drill the back side of the tube for nut driver access and the front side for the linear guide mounting screws?
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
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Re: Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? November 27, 2017 08:12PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 363 |
I'm using carbon fiber tubes in my core-xy, it's not based on the hypercube pre-se but I did take his idea for the tubes and bushings. I'm still in the build-phase so cannot comment on the performance yet, but I also made my design based on the concept of reduced moving weight.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2017 08:13PM by obelisk79.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2017 08:13PM by obelisk79.
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Re: Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? November 30, 2017 04:15AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 32 |
Quote
o lampe
I've learned that pultruded rods are lower quality than woven ones. Maybe the woven tubes are made in a mould?
That is very useful to know thanks!
I have some threaded brass inserts which would be perfect for this. I have 2 types - one that pushes in from the front and another that goes in from the back with a flange to prevent pull through.
I can use them for this. By the way I am surprised more people with 3d printers dont use the insrts for their stuff, they work really well.
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Re: Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? November 30, 2017 10:38AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 5,788 |
Has anyone compared the weight of the CF tubes to the equivalent size of aluminum tubing?
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
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Re: Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? November 30, 2017 12:08PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 363 |
Quote
the_digital_dentist
Has anyone compared the weight of the CF tubes to the equivalent size of aluminum tubing?
No, but for the same volume of material carbon fiber is roughly 40% lighter than aluminum. I would suspect after mounting etc you could realistically expect somewhere in the ballpark of 30+% potential savings? The tubes I have are incredibly light.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2017 12:12PM by obelisk79.
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Re: Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? December 01, 2017 11:16AM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 335 |
I know that carbon fiber sometimes shows up in pick and place machines, but it seems to have fallen out of favor. These days an epoxy granite base seems to be the trendy thing to do.
My guess is that when you consider the weight of the entire axis, switching to carbon fiber just doesn't make enough of a difference.
I could see it helping for a 3d printer but I think you will be chasing marginal gains and the stuff is pretty expensive. Drilling CF also shreds drill bits and produces nasty dust.
I suspect for the dollars and effort spent you could make other design improvements that might be more effective.
My guess is that when you consider the weight of the entire axis, switching to carbon fiber just doesn't make enough of a difference.
I could see it helping for a 3d printer but I think you will be chasing marginal gains and the stuff is pretty expensive. Drilling CF also shreds drill bits and produces nasty dust.
I suspect for the dollars and effort spent you could make other design improvements that might be more effective.
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Re: Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? December 02, 2017 04:57AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 487 |
Woven carbon fibre tubes are made on a mandrel. There is a hybrid between a pulltruded tube and a roll wrapped tube where they take a pulltruded tube and put a carbon braided sleeve over it. Pulltruded tubes are very susceptible to splitting down the length of the tube as there are no fibres going around the tube to hold it together, the hybrid tubes are probably better in this way.
Idris
{Precision Piezo} Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters.
Idris
{Precision Piezo} Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters.
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Re: Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? December 02, 2017 10:39AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 363 |
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Re: Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? December 02, 2017 03:47PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,682 |
Pulltruded CF tube is great for delta printers where the load is longitudinal. For any application that produces bending loads, I would use roll-wrapped tube.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2017 03:48PM by dc42.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2017 03:48PM by dc42.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Re: Has anyone tried using carbon fiber tube for the X axis? December 07, 2017 07:00PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 814 |
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