Migbot Prusa i3 Unofficial Support Thread

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Ax

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cmaet

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Ax

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cmaet
Hi fellow Migbot users.
I just installed an optical levellig sensor from Pibot. Bed leveling works great, detects glass surface, Using a screwdriver detecting distance can be set from cca 1mm to more than 10mm.
The problem is that if I enable auto bed leveling (by adding a G29 command in my starting script), printer starts printing off center for the distance, that the auto bed leveling probe is set from the extruder - basically the sensor is moving in the position that the nozzle should be. If I delete the G29 command, the nozzle position is OK. Seems that if the Auto bed levelling command with its nozzle to levelling probe positioning overrides the nozzle to bed positioning
I assume that i am missing something from my starting script to tell the printer to start printing from zero after bed levelling???

I am using Simplify3D and my starting script only includes two lines: "G28 ; home all axes", which was there by default and worked fine and the "G29 ; Auto bed leveling" that I added to enable auto bed levelling and seems to be causing the problem.

How can I fix this?

Answered this one a few times on this thread.. Probe offsets for X & Y are wrong. Check your X & Y offsets, they may not end up being the true values though for it to work. Mine are 0 for Y and -30 for X.

@Ax: the probe offset is fine, it prints at the correct position, until I turn on the auto bed levelling.
Figured it out anyway: After the G29 command (auto bed levelling), it needs a G28 (home all axis), so it starts from the home position, otherwise it starts printing from the probe offset position. Works great now.

It's the way the compsation works, it takes from the offsets set in the firmware under the auto levelvelling section,If these are not set correctly, after the G29,it reads the probe offset, then adds that to the GCode. Just give it a shot. You'll see what I mean.

You have the probe left of the extruder nozzle?
I checked my settings (I have the probe roughly where the migbot one is supposed to be - at the x axis belt clip), offset settings are X 10, Y -60. The probe moves roughly 2cm from the corners of the printbed during auto leveling. If I change the offsets, the probe quickly ends up missing the printbed and the nozzle crashing on the surface, so I am assuming that the offsets are ok?

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cmaet
You have the probe left of the extruder nozzle?
I checked my settings (I have the probe roughly where the migbot one is supposed to be - at the x axis belt clip), offset settings are X 10, Y -60. The probe moves roughly 2cm from the corners of the printbed during auto leveling. If I change the offsets, the probe quickly ends up missing the printbed and the nozzle crashing on the surface, so I am assuming that the offsets are ok?

Nope, same Migbot mount. The probe points are defined by the following:

    // set the rectangle in which to probe
    #define LEFT_PROBE_BED_POSITION  -10 // Left Front
    #define RIGHT_PROBE_BED_POSITION 187 // Right Front
    #define BACK_PROBE_BED_POSITION  170   // Right Back
    #define FRONT_PROBE_BED_POSITION -40 // Left Back

In order to get it printing fairly central, the X & Y offsets here:

  // these are the offsets to the probe relative to the extruder tip (Hotend - Probe)
  #define X_PROBE_OFFSET_FROM_EXTRUDER 0
  #define Y_PROBE_OFFSET_FROM_EXTRUDER -30
  #define Z_PROBE_OFFSET_FROM_EXTRUDER -0.8

I have the large bed, however the principals are exactly the same with the Standard Bed. The thing is, Marlin seems to be a bit wappy with it's calculations for the offsets. Essentially, auto-levelling is currently broken in the version of the firmware used by the Migbots. I was looking this up a while back and found this out, this has been admitted by the Marlin authors. It works, but not as intended, so you need to compensate for it.

OK Migbot users - The Migbot now has a Wiki entry at [reprap.org]

I'm still in the process of updating and adding to it, but it basically has a breakdown of what the Migbot is and some basic FAQ. If anyone has upgrades no matter how small, could you drop me a message with a link to them so I can add them to the Wiki page, or alternatively, you can add them yourself.

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Ax
OK Migbot users - The Migbot now has a Wiki entry at [reprap.org]

I'm still in the process of updating and adding to it, but it basically has a breakdown of what the Migbot is and some basic FAQ. If anyone has upgrades no matter how small, could you drop me a message with a link to them so I can add them to the Wiki page, or alternatively, you can add them yourself.

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CrackinX
Well here is my Migbot rework thus far, still a few more items to make to get the rats nest of wires sorted out but I have included all the STL files I have made/reworked for it.
[drive.google.com]

there are 28 wire chain bits on the x axis, 17 on the Z.
Also I think I'm going to try and make the 18MM bed sensor mount a bit shorter as it is too far away from the nozzle to get a 16 point auto level.
Most of these I can not take credit for as they came from Thingverse and are re-works to fit the migbot.

Any questions please feel free to ask

Don't know if that's what you are asking for, but I ended up reworking just about the whole thing

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Ax

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jedhodson
Hi all,
I have had the Migbot Prusa i3 for a week now and all had seemed well. I only just found out when printing a size specific part that the z axis has been 1 mm shorter for all my prints. I had loaded the auto bed levelling firmware on the board from a GitHub repository I found (containing the build instructions and software) and all seemed to work well. Bed levelling was working, X and Y are perfectly calibrated but Z it cutting all builds by 1mm. It isn't just a 1mm off the top, but it seems that the entire object has been shrunk. I have tried using different slicers without success. I have used Astroprint (as a primary running Slic3r) and the migbot software (cura) but they don't work. I'm about to try Cura on astroprint and will report is any success. When I manually move the z axis (from within astroprint) it aligns perfectly but when in a print all seems squished. I have aligned the print bed and extruder mulipul times (I will make it higher to see if that fixes it).

Meanwhile if anyone knows what the problem may be please help.

Jed

Sounds like the steps per mm for Z are off. I'm not sure of the pitch of the Acme screw, so I can't work out what it should be. However, these are the default Steps per MM from my firmware copy :

#define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT   {80,80,398.269957,94.4962144} 

Went through that and the Steps are the same. I have tried different slicers (They all say the dimensions are correct), Readjusting the Bed levelling (Sensor 2mm above tip of nozzle), I quickly tried setting a Z axis offset in Slic3r. I think I'm going to have to keep at the Z offset. Does anyone know how to work this out. A 20mm cube comes out as 19mm with 0.2mm layer height. I will also try adding more levelling points incase the bed is out. The only other thing I can think of is if PLA shrinks a lot, but the X, Y is fine so I assume not.

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jedhodson

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Ax

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jedhodson
Hi all,
I have had the Migbot Prusa i3 for a week now and all had seemed well. I only just found out when printing a size specific part that the z axis has been 1 mm shorter for all my prints. I had loaded the auto bed levelling firmware on the board from a GitHub repository I found (containing the build instructions and software) and all seemed to work well. Bed levelling was working, X and Y are perfectly calibrated but Z it cutting all builds by 1mm. It isn't just a 1mm off the top, but it seems that the entire object has been shrunk. I have tried using different slicers without success. I have used Astroprint (as a primary running Slic3r) and the migbot software (cura) but they don't work. I'm about to try Cura on astroprint and will report is any success. When I manually move the z axis (from within astroprint) it aligns perfectly but when in a print all seems squished. I have aligned the print bed and extruder mulipul times (I will make it higher to see if that fixes it).

Meanwhile if anyone knows what the problem may be please help.

Jed

Sounds like the steps per mm for Z are off. I'm not sure of the pitch of the Acme screw, so I can't work out what it should be. However, these are the default Steps per MM from my firmware copy :

#define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT   {80,80,398.269957,94.4962144} 

Went through that and the Steps are the same. I have tried different slicers (They all say the dimensions are correct), Readjusting the Bed levelling (Sensor 2mm above tip of nozzle), I quickly tried setting a Z axis offset in Slic3r. I think I'm going to have to keep at the Z offset. Does anyone know how to work this out. A 20mm cube comes out as 19mm with 0.2mm layer height. I will also try adding more levelling points incase the bed is out. The only other thing I can think of is if PLA shrinks a lot, but the X, Y is fine so I assume not.

PLA hardly shrinks. It's definitely the Z Steps that are causing the size discrepancy. You'd need to know the pitch of the ACME Leadscrew and the Motor Step Angle to work it out using the Prusa Calculator, unfortunately it's the leadscrew pitch that's the problem, as it's an unknown. Although while writing this, I've realised there may be a contact I have who may know. Stay tuned.

Edit: Just out of curiosity is it 19mm dead on or is it something like 19.8mm?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2015 07:40AM by Ax.

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jedhodson

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Ax

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jedhodson
Hi all,
I have had the Migbot Prusa i3 for a week now and all had seemed well. I only just found out when printing a size specific part that the z axis has been 1 mm shorter for all my prints. I had loaded the auto bed levelling firmware on the board from a GitHub repository I found (containing the build instructions and software) and all seemed to work well. Bed levelling was working, X and Y are perfectly calibrated but Z it cutting all builds by 1mm. It isn't just a 1mm off the top, but it seems that the entire object has been shrunk. I have tried using different slicers without success. I have used Astroprint (as a primary running Slic3r) and the migbot software (cura) but they don't work. I'm about to try Cura on astroprint and will report is any success. When I manually move the z axis (from within astroprint) it aligns perfectly but when in a print all seems squished. I have aligned the print bed and extruder mulipul times (I will make it higher to see if that fixes it).

Meanwhile if anyone knows what the problem may be please help.

Jed

Sounds like the steps per MM is off
calculate the steps per mm for the z axis.

expected mm/ observed mm * current steps/mm = new steps/mm

in your case this would be
20/19= 1.05236

multiply 1.05236 * current steps ( the default current steps is 400 so 400 * 10.5236 = 421.05263) put the new value in #define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT

my settings are
#define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT {80.50299,80.38040,402.2293125,97.66329} // (X,Y,Z,E)
// changed to 402.2293125 09/28/2015
#define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT {80,80,398.269957,94.4962144}

I use the YACO calibration object it is 60mm in all directions and will make your measurements more accurate. I have attached the YACO instructions, Google YACO.stl to get the file, it is too big to attach.

guys.. my migbot threaded rod z axis has bend. does anyone know how to get the threaded rod replaced?

or the specs of the threaded rod? is it M5? M8? the pitch? i have absolutely no clue. or does anyone have links to aliexpress that sells the exact threaded rod for the z axis?

i really really need this rod replaced

thanks so much

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tribrainz
guys.. my migbot threaded rod z axis has bend. does anyone know how to get the threaded rod replaced?

or the specs of the threaded rod? is it M5? M8? the pitch? i have absolutely no clue. or does anyone have links to aliexpress that sells the exact threaded rod for the z axis?

i really really need this rod replaced

thanks so much

I can tell you as much as it's 8mm. However, the pitch isn't something that's a known factor. However, replacements can be bought from a multitude of places with a known pitch and then the Prusa calculator can be used to sort your steps/mm. Look for a set of 8mm Lead screws with nuts, you'll then be able to swap the lot out. I'd also avoid buying from places like AliExpress, what state the parts will be in when they arrive is unknown. Try to find a place in your country that sells parts, if you're in the UK I can give you several links.

::Edit::
Chance find - I just punched a set of lead screws through the Prusa calculator, the standard steps on the Migbot firmware I have is 398.269957 so, it seems the pitch is around 2mm or 8mm/revolution as with the 1.8˚ step angle and 1/16 stepping that the Motors have that comes to 400 Steps/mm.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2015 03:11AM by Ax.

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gwc2795

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jedhodson

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Ax

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jedhodson
Hi all,
I have had the Migbot Prusa i3 for a week now and all had seemed well. I only just found out when printing a size specific part that the z axis has been 1 mm shorter for all my prints. I had loaded the auto bed levelling firmware on the board from a GitHub repository I found (containing the build instructions and software) and all seemed to work well. Bed levelling was working, X and Y are perfectly calibrated but Z it cutting all builds by 1mm. It isn't just a 1mm off the top, but it seems that the entire object has been shrunk. I have tried using different slicers without success. I have used Astroprint (as a primary running Slic3r) and the migbot software (cura) but they don't work. I'm about to try Cura on astroprint and will report is any success. When I manually move the z axis (from within astroprint) it aligns perfectly but when in a print all seems squished. I have aligned the print bed and extruder mulipul times (I will make it higher to see if that fixes it).

Meanwhile if anyone knows what the problem may be please help.

Jed

Sounds like the steps per MM is off
calculate the steps per mm for the z axis.

expected mm/ observed mm * current steps/mm = new steps/mm

in your case this would be
20/19= 1.05236

multiply 1.05236 * current steps ( the default current steps is 400 so 400 * 10.5236 = 421.05263) put the new value in #define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT

my settings are
#define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT {80.50299,80.38040,402.2293125,97.66329} // (X,Y,Z,E)
// changed to 402.2293125 09/28/2015
#define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT {80,80,398.269957,94.4962144}

I use the YACO calibration object it is 60mm in all directions and will make your measurements more accurate. I have attached the YACO instructions, Google YACO.stl to get the file, it is too big to attach.

Ok so I just finished the YACO print on draft quality (0.3mm layer height) and measured at X - 60, Y - 60, Z - 59. So according the model provided by gwc2795 (expected mm/ observed mm * current steps/mm = new steps/mm) 60/59 * 400 = 406.779661017. I shall try this number is the config tomorrow. However I really do need to get a digital caliper as currently I only have an old plastic one with the numbers marked as a ruler along the sides.

Thanks to all who have helped so far and I shall update sometime tomorrow.

Jed

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tribrainz
guys.. my migbot threaded rod z axis has bend. does anyone know how to get the threaded rod replaced?

or the specs of the threaded rod? is it M5? M8? the pitch? i have absolutely no clue. or does anyone have links to aliexpress that sells the exact threaded rod for the z axis?

i really really need this rod replaced

thanks so much

Several posters have said they put the rod on a flat surface and alternately roll it and using yours fingers, straighten the rod across your leg. They claim they can get the rod straight.

@ax @gwc2795

really a big help. thank you so much i'll try to look for it locally first, if i cant find it, i might as well try to straighten it myself lol

im from malaysia, its kinda hard to look for these kind of hardware here. T_T

i guess worst case scenario, i just gonna have to buy another threaded rod together with the nut.

Hihi I'm from Singapore, you can email me i believe i have spare rod. Evetanlm @ gmail . Com

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tribrainz
@ax @gwc2795

really a big help. thank you so much i'll try to look for it locally first, if i cant find it, i might as well try to straighten it myself lol

im from malaysia, its kinda hard to look for these kind of hardware here. T_T

i guess worst case scenario, i just gonna have to buy another threaded rod together with the nut.

Good luck.

CENTERING the print question

I know - a lot talked about in here, BUT how can I properly set it up in the Firmware - NOT in the Start G-Code. Z-Axis is more or less figured out - I am using right now the manual Z-Endswitch instead of the sensor.

If I home on the printer - its X-42, Y-55 in the LCD

Whenever I send a poitive move via G-Code, the Nozzle "jumps" to a point way in the bed and printer LCD says 0 0 0
I cant then step further back (negative steps) via G-Code - OK it think I saw this feature in the Firmware that this is disabled

I tried to manipulate the manual_X_home position - but always the same results

Tried also the x_probe_offset - but doenstn this only has to do with the sensor, what I am not using

Which exact commandline in the firmware is responsible for that - or is it easier to archive via a start G-Code ?

Hey guys! I know this has been probably asked a ton of times, but anyway... I've bought a Electron prusa i3 which is the same printer if i heard correctly, as the migbot. I've assembled it completely, looks great, but unfortunately couldn't print anything with it yet. It seems like, the extruder is very slow, not much fimalent is coming out during print. I know, I have to modify it's firmware and calibrate it, but, then comes my main problem. I have been reading the forums, but couldn't get a definitive answer, to what driver should I install, to be able to connect it to my pc. The motherboard is a mks base 1.4. I've already figured it out, that for this printer, the repetier host is the software for manual control, but without the driver, its worthless. So if someone would give an advice, it would be really appreciated. Sorry, I know this is a noob question, but i just started this 3d printing hobby, and till now coding arduino, and stuff like that, was like chinese to me. I'm fine with mechanics, but coding is a whole different world to me. Thanks for any help

@ Daniel
hi there - I am a total newbie to 3D printing as well - with the same machine - same board
I am on a Mac but I think PC should be the same - I installed a FTDI Driver - its a VPC Virual Com Port Driver from [www.ftdichip.com]
that should provide you whith USB Serial Driver via which you can connect to the Arduino aka MKS Board
Select in the Arduino IDE (also downloadable) your Board - Arduino Mega 2560 - selct the virtual USB port and you should have a connection to the MKS
via that you tweak your firmware
Repetier Host the same - just select the driver - connect to printer - should have manual controll to the printer and should be also able to send G-Code for your first print - yeahhhhhhh

Its a lot of reading getting into that - Chinese product ;-) stay in this forum - these people here know a lot about that machine
Have fun

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Marty77
CENTERING the print question

I know - a lot talked about in here, BUT how can I properly set it up in the Firmware - NOT in the Start G-Code. Z-Axis is more or less figured out - I am using right now the manual Z-Endswitch instead of the sensor.

If I home on the printer - its X-42, Y-55 in the LCD

Whenever I send a poitive move via G-Code, the Nozzle "jumps" to a point way in the bed and printer LCD says 0 0 0
I cant then step further back (negative steps) via G-Code - OK it think I saw this feature in the Firmware that this is disabled

I tried to manipulate the manual_X_home position - but always the same results

Tried also the x_probe_offset - but doenstn this only has to do with the sensor, what I am not using

Which exact commandline in the firmware is responsible for that - or is it easier to archive via a start G-Code ?

Look for the following section in the firmware, under configuration.h:

//Manual homing switch locations:
// For deltabots this means top and center of the Cartesian print volume.
#define MANUAL_X_HOME_POS 0
#define MANUAL_Y_HOME_POS 0
#define MANUAL_Z_HOME_POS 0

You should be able to adjust the home positions from there.

I tried with that line yes - but no luck
maybe the values are out of range or something
Ill guess I have to do it via a G-Code Start setup :/

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Marty77
I tried with that line yes - but no luck
maybe the values are out of range or something
Ill guess I have to do it via a G-Code Start setup :/

What does the following say in your firmware?

// The position of the homing switches
//#define MANUAL_HOME_POSITIONS  // If defined, MANUAL_*_HOME_POS below will be used
//#define BED_CENTER_AT_0_0  // If defined, the center of the bed is at (X=0, Y=0)

Is it commented out?

the manual home position is active - so not commented out
the bed center is commented out

I am not at the printer right now - I think Ill have to play around and tweak - try and error more or less ;-)

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Marty77
the manual home position is active - so not commented out
the bed center is commented out

I am not at the printer right now - I think Ill have to play around and tweak - try and error more or less ;-)

Hmm strange. Personally, I'd flash the base firmware again as a test and see what happens. You can get it from [github.com] - make sure you pick the right one for your setup.

well Ill give it a try - like I said - will flash different settings and see
I got the code from there - Ahhhhhhhh - wiring pictures - a little bit late - ahhhhhhhhhhh readme about firmware - a litle bit late ;-)))))) that is also the response what I was asking for from the day on getting my printer
well better late than never - would have maybe saved a few hours try and error

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Marty77
well Ill give it a try - like I said - will flash different settings and see
I got the code from there - Ahhhhhhhh - wiring pictures - a little bit late - ahhhhhhhhhhh readme about firmware - a litle bit late ;-)))))) that is also the response what I was asking for from the day on getting my printer
well better late than never - would have maybe saved a few hours try and error

That's why I put up the wiki page too ^^ [reprap.org]

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cmaet
Hi fellow Migbot users.
I just installed an optical levellig sensor from Pibot. Bed leveling works great, detects glass surface, Using a screwdriver detecting distance can be set from cca 1mm to more than 10mm.
The problem is that if I enable auto bed leveling (by adding a G29 command in my starting script), printer starts printing off center for the distance, that the auto bed leveling probe is set from the extruder - basically the sensor is moving in the position that the nozzle should be. If I delete the G29 command, the nozzle position is OK. Seems that if the Auto bed levelling command with its nozzle to levelling probe positioning overrides the nozzle to bed positioning
I assume that i am missing something from my starting script to tell the printer to start printing from zero after bed levelling???

I am using Simplify3D and my starting script only includes two lines: "G28 ; home all axes", which was there by default and worked fine and the "G29 ; Auto bed leveling" that I added to enable auto bed levelling and seems to be causing the problem.

How can I fix this?

I am very interested in installing a bed leveling system on my MigBot/Electron 3D printer. I have read through the info on the Pibot web page regarding the leveling sensor but, (being a newbie) I'm not quite sure what to buy. Do I need their circuit board or do I just buy the sensor ...and how involved is the mounting/installation process? The video makes it look like a snap but, we know that's not necessarily true.

Thanks,
Garry

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rowdyjoe

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cmaet
Hi fellow Migbot users.
I just installed an optical levellig sensor from Pibot. Bed leveling works great, detects glass surface, Using a screwdriver detecting distance can be set from cca 1mm to more than 10mm.
The problem is that if I enable auto bed leveling (by adding a G29 command in my starting script), printer starts printing off center for the distance, that the auto bed leveling probe is set from the extruder - basically the sensor is moving in the position that the nozzle should be. If I delete the G29 command, the nozzle position is OK. Seems that if the Auto bed levelling command with its nozzle to levelling probe positioning overrides the nozzle to bed positioning
I assume that i am missing something from my starting script to tell the printer to start printing from zero after bed levelling???

I am using Simplify3D and my starting script only includes two lines: "G28 ; home all axes", which was there by default and worked fine and the "G29 ; Auto bed leveling" that I added to enable auto bed levelling and seems to be causing the problem.

How can I fix this?

I am very interested in installing a bed leveling system on my MigBot/Electron 3D printer. I have read through the info on the Pibot web page regarding the leveling sensor but, (being a newbie) I'm not quite sure what to buy. Do I need their circuit board or do I just buy the sensor ...and how involved is the mounting/installation process? The video makes it look like a snap but, we know that's not necessarily true.

Thanks,
Garry

Garry - check the Migbot Wiki page there's info there. Basically I'd advise looking at the SN04-N NO sensor as it's plug and play and doesn't need to have a voltage divider. This is what comes with the Migbot if you take the Auto level option. As such on the file repository (linked in the wiki) there's a mount for it, so it's just print and go after flashing the correct firmware and setting the offsets correctly.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2015 03:18AM by Ax.

Thanks Ax. I'll check it out.
Haven't got my printer "printing" yet as bed temp is still not up to par for ABS. Still working that issue.
I replaced the power lead from the PS to the MB and that wire is no longer getting warm/hot but, the power lead from the MB to the bed is getting pretty warm. Replacement of that lead and insulating the underside of the bed are next on the "fix" list. I need to be careful to provide flexible wire so movement of the bed won't break it or pull it loose from the bed.

Garry

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2015 07:55PM by rowdyjoe.

Ax
Garry - check the Migbot Wiki page there's info there. Basically I'd advise looking at the SN04-N NO sensor as it's plug and play and doesn't need to have a voltage divider. This is what comes with the Migbot if you take the Auto level option. As such on the file repository (linked in the wiki) there's a mount for it, so it's just print and go after flashing the correct firmware and setting the offsets correctly. [/quote]
===========================================================================================================

Just ordered the SN04-N NO sensor from Amazon. Great price and good shipping time. Thanks for that tip. Now, I must get the print bed up to correct temp so I can print the mount.

Garry

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rowdyjoe
Ax
Garry - check the Migbot Wiki page there's info there. Basically I'd advise looking at the SN04-N NO sensor as it's plug and play and doesn't need to have a voltage divider. This is what comes with the Migbot if you take the Auto level option. As such on the file repository (linked in the wiki) there's a mount for it, so it's just print and go after flashing the correct firmware and setting the offsets correctly.

===========================================================================================================

Just ordered the SN04-N NO sensor from Amazon. Great price and good shipping time. Thanks for that tip. Now, I must get the print bed up to correct temp so I can print the mount.

Garry[/quote]

You're gonna have fun with that. without a Solid State relay and separate power supply, it's not really going to hit the 110 you need for a loooooooooooong while. Tbh the sensor mount is far enough away from the hot end to just use PLA. Both mine are printed from PLA/PHA by ColorFabb, which is a slightly more flexable PLA.

Ax
Yeah, it's been 45 min. and it's just now reacing 105C. Previous high temp was about 85C with a piece of cardboard on top so, this is real progress. I replaced the 16 (?) gauge wire to the bed with 14 gauge copper stranded and insulated the back side of the bed with aprox. 1/8" cork. Wooohoooo ! Just checked and the bed temp is now at 107C. I forgot to cover it with tape so it may do better once I cool it down and apply the masking tape.

What's this about a seperate power supply and relay for the bed? I have a few very good switching PS that came out of servers (12v 1500 watt 46 amp}. What do I need to do to rig it up to the bed? Got a sketch of the hook up?

Garry