Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 05, 2016 10:58AM |
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Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 05, 2016 03:33PM |
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Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 05, 2016 06:43PM |
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Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 05, 2016 08:34PM |
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Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 05, 2016 10:05PM |
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Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 06, 2016 12:44AM |
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Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 06, 2016 02:24PM |
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Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 06, 2016 04:04PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 131 |
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erik-in-mich
We got the 2020 and walked into a rabbit warren to set up auto bed leveling... As far as I can tell the firmware that came with the printer dosen't include the ? code ? for it, and we are trying to get a newer version of marlin to send to the printer and have spent the last 3 days just trying to fix one compile error after another. Any suggestions?
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 06, 2016 06:08PM |
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Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 07, 2016 09:25AM |
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Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 07, 2016 10:45AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 130 |
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msaeger
Anyone using the openbuilds v-slot stuff notice that the wheels are wearing? I am seeing some wear and some black particles on the rail. Everything still feels tight so it's not a lot yet. Just wonder if this is normal or if I have something adjusted wrong. I did recently loosen the eccentrics a little because I was feeling the build plate wasn't moving freely enough and I don't know if this is from before or after.
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 07, 2016 12:03PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 276 |
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 07, 2016 12:39PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 131 |
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flatlander
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msaeger
Anyone using the openbuilds v-slot stuff notice that the wheels are wearing? I am seeing some wear and some black particles on the rail. Everything still feels tight so it's not a lot yet. Just wonder if this is normal or if I have something adjusted wrong. I did recently loosen the eccentrics a little because I was feeling the build plate wasn't moving freely enough and I don't know if this is from before or after.
Rule of thumb is the gantry plate should roll on its own when the rail is tilted to a 45 degree angle. I would clean the rails & wheels with a q-tip often. Make sure any lubricant is compatible with Delrin. Delrin is "self lubricating." Something is going to wear, if not the rails the wheels. Aluminum oxide is hard stuff, my bet is the wheels lose the friction battle.
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 07, 2016 01:54PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 85 |
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tjnamtiw
On another topic, I was thinking more about die swell and the discussion I had with jhitesma about it as he successfully enlightened me about 'extrusion multiplier'. I raised my Z offset from the normal -3.3 mm to -2.7 mm so that my first pass would just lay down on the bed and not be squished as it normally would. At 40 mm/sec print speed, the extrudate after cooling measured 0.41 mm out of my 0.4 mm nozzle. I raised the print speed up to 120! and ran a pass. That string of plastic measured 0.57 mm!!! This is how much die swell we are talking about. This is with PLA.
Quote
Thanks to jhitesma, after making sure my feed rate is correct (100 mm called for equals 100 mm fed), I ran the single wall test again and again until my wall is 0.48 as the GCode says it should be. WHAT A DIFFERENCE in part quality! NOW, knowing that if we speed up the printer to higher print speeds, we get much more die swell, it stands to reason that we must also rerun the single wall test and adjust the extrusion multiplier to get what the GCode says it should be in width. Thinking about this as I type, I have not used Repetier to slice anything with the speed set higher to see if it calls for a wider width. I guess that is the next check.
Quote
In any event, be aware that, at higher speeds, your extrudate is going to be a LOT thicker. This could also explain some of the horrible parts that people are posting and asking what's wrong. Maybe they are unwittingly extruding at extremely fast rates for the stock dies.
PS: just checked on Repetier and slicing something running at 120 mm/sec print speed still calls for 0.48 mm width. Maybe running that fast stretches out the plastic down to 0.48?
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 07, 2016 02:49PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 25 |
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jhitesma
Quote
tjnamtiw
On another topic, I was thinking more about die swell and the discussion I had with jhitesma about it as he successfully enlightened me about 'extrusion multiplier'. I raised my Z offset from the normal -3.3 mm to -2.7 mm so that my first pass would just lay down on the bed and not be squished as it normally would. At 40 mm/sec print speed, the extrudate after cooling measured 0.41 mm out of my 0.4 mm nozzle. I raised the print speed up to 120! and ran a pass. That string of plastic measured 0.57 mm!!! This is how much die swell we are talking about. This is with PLA.
Wow, I haven't messed with high speeds yet (but will be soon, got the gantry set for sonny's Y upgrade from my wife for my birthday Saturday...rest of the parts on order and should be here this week sometime.) so I haven't seen that much swell yet. I've actually been fighting the opposite problem - suddenly I started underextruding like crazy
It appears that the pivot for the tensioner on my extruder has wallowed out it's hole. Thankfully I had ordered an all metal one off ebay, I never installed it since it mounted the hot end differently and needed a 6mm nut I didn't have on hand. But I picked one up and swapped it in and it solved that problem. Which is ok for now, but the design of this one has the aluminum block the throat of the hot end screws into integrated in with the rest of it - so I won't be able to stick with it when I eventually upgrade to a better hot end. Still that's a ways off so for now problem solved.
Except then I burned out two stepper drivers on my Z axis in 3 days We've been having hot weather (mid to upper 90f range) and despite that I refuse to give in and turn on my AC because it's just barely March! The first one burned out when the heat sink fell off the driver and wedged against the pins I figured it fell off because the wires going to my extruder rubbed against it. So I added a bracket to keep the wires away and added a fan to the RAMPS to help deal with the warm weather - mostly over the extruder driver since I was also fighting with the under extrusion (which I've since determined is almost certainly mechanical as described above.)
Then Saturday morning I was doing a string of prints and all was well...until the temp outside got to 82f or so (meaning it was even warmer in the room where my printer is due to the sun shining in the window.) and the heat sink fell off the replacement driver This time I think it was just heat that did it in...except I've read the temps off those drivers many times and never seen them go over 37c. No more spares on hand so had to order new drivers. They'll be here today and I decided to try the DRV8825's with 32step micro stepping instead - so that will hopefully be interesting.
Quote
Thanks to jhitesma, after making sure my feed rate is correct (100 mm called for equals 100 mm fed), I ran the single wall test again and again until my wall is 0.48 as the GCode says it should be. WHAT A DIFFERENCE in part quality! NOW, knowing that if we speed up the printer to higher print speeds, we get much more die swell, it stands to reason that we must also rerun the single wall test and adjust the extrusion multiplier to get what the GCode says it should be in width. Thinking about this as I type, I have not used Repetier to slice anything with the speed set higher to see if it calls for a wider width. I guess that is the next check.
Amazing what a difference it makes isn't it! I was happy with my prints before figuring that out, but now I'm flat out amazed by the results. I look forward to seeing how you do with higher speeds and further refinement!
Quote
In any event, be aware that, at higher speeds, your extrudate is going to be a LOT thicker. This could also explain some of the horrible parts that people are posting and asking what's wrong. Maybe they are unwittingly extruding at extremely fast rates for the stock dies.
PS: just checked on Repetier and slicing something running at 120 mm/sec print speed still calls for 0.48 mm width. Maybe running that fast stretches out the plastic down to 0.48?
I wonder if slic3r is smart enough to account for higher die swell at higher speeds and cuts down the amount of extrusion as a result? Guess it will just take some further testing to figure out for sure!
BTW - speaking of print quality. The change from the stock plastic extruder to the $13 metal one from ebay solved a minor print quality issue that I had assumed was due to the cheap linear bearings. I've always had a bit of a pattern on my prints - it's not measurable and I can't feel it, but it is visible as a pattern in the printed surface. Well, the metal extruder with it's adjustable tension has eliminated that:
[attachment 74076 IMG_8255-X2.jpg]
On the left are single wall tests done with the original plastic extruder - you should be able to see the diagonal patterns I was getting. On the right is a test with the new metal extruder and higher idler tension - the pattern is gone, just the layer lines are left!
(excuse my fat first layers - my z probe offset was a bit off still as I was doing these tests.)
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 07, 2016 03:13PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 130 |
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marc2912
Quote
flatlander
Quote
msaeger
Anyone using the openbuilds v-slot stuff notice that the wheels are wearing? I am seeing some wear and some black particles on the rail. Everything still feels tight so it's not a lot yet. Just wonder if this is normal or if I have something adjusted wrong. I did recently loosen the eccentrics a little because I was feeling the build plate wasn't moving freely enough and I don't know if this is from before or after.
Rule of thumb is the gantry plate should roll on its own when the rail is tilted to a 45 degree angle. I would clean the rails & wheels with a q-tip often. Make sure any lubricant is compatible with Delrin. Delrin is "self lubricating." Something is going to wear, if not the rails the wheels. Aluminum oxide is hard stuff, my bet is the wheels lose the friction battle.
Are you talking about 45 degree even when hooked up to the stepper? Is that with the bed on it (if Y) or with extruder (if x), i find that if it's just an empty gantry then it wouldn't for me due to resistance from the stepper.
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 07, 2016 03:56PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 2 |
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 07, 2016 04:33PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 131 |
Quote
wefriend94
Hey guys!
I just finished building this printer about a week ago and I have to say I'm impressed! I have just been running into a pretty consistent issue. Every time I print it seems that about half way up the print, the entire print shifts to the left about a mm. Does anyone know what could be causing this? Also, seen clearly in the boat pictures, the layers that do not have a solid infill have very stringy perimeters. The quality of the perimeter is sufficiently better at the top of the boat than the bottom. Any help is great!! (first link frog, second and third are same boat)
[drive.google.com]
[drive.google.com]
[drive.google.com]
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 07, 2016 04:38PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 85 |
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john-i
Interesting.. can you share what you ordered from ebay?
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 07, 2016 04:41PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 85 |
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marc2912
Quote
wefriend94
Hey guys!
I just finished building this printer about a week ago and I have to say I'm impressed! I have just been running into a pretty consistent issue. Every time I print it seems that about half way up the print, the entire print shifts to the left about a mm. Does anyone know what could be causing this? Also, seen clearly in the boat pictures, the layers that do not have a solid infill have very stringy perimeters. The quality of the perimeter is sufficiently better at the top of the boat than the bottom. Any help is great!! (first link frog, second and third are same boat)
[drive.google.com]
[drive.google.com]
[drive.google.com]
The shift could be caused if your x or y belt are not tight enough,
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 07, 2016 05:17PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 2 |
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 07, 2016 08:52PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 541 |
Quote
jhitesma
Wow, I haven't messed with high speeds yet (but will be soon, got the gantry set for sonny's Y upgrade from my wife for my birthday Saturday...rest of the parts on order and should be here this week sometime.) so I haven't seen that much swell yet. I've actually been fighting the opposite problem - suddenly I started underextruding like crazy
It appears that the pivot for the tensioner on my extruder has wallowed out it's hole. Thankfully I had ordered an all metal one off ebay, I never installed it since it mounted the hot end differently and needed a 6mm nut I didn't have on hand. But I picked one up and swapped it in and it solved that problem. Which is ok for now, but the design of this one has the aluminum block the throat of the hot end screws into integrated in with the rest of it - so I won't be able to stick with it when I eventually upgrade to a better hot end. Still that's a ways off so for now problem solved.
Except then I burned out two stepper drivers on my Z axis in 3 days We've been having hot weather (mid to upper 90f range) and despite that I refuse to give in and turn on my AC because it's just barely March! The first one burned out when the heat sink fell off the driver and wedged against the pins I figured it fell off because the wires going to my extruder rubbed against it. So I added a bracket to keep the wires away and added a fan to the RAMPS to help deal with the warm weather - mostly over the extruder driver since I was also fighting with the under extrusion (which I've since determined is almost certainly mechanical as described above.)
Then Saturday morning I was doing a string of prints and all was well...until the temp outside got to 82f or so (meaning it was even warmer in the room where my printer is due to the sun shining in the window.) and the heat sink fell off the replacement driver This time I think it was just heat that did it in...except I've read the temps off those drivers many times and never seen them go over 37c. No more spares on hand so had to order new drivers. They'll be here today and I decided to try the DRV8825's with 32step micro stepping instead - so that will hopefully be interesting.
I wonder if slic3r is smart enough to account for higher die swell at higher speeds and cuts down the amount of extrusion as a result? Guess it will just take some further testing to figure out for sure!
BTW - speaking of print quality. The change from the stock plastic extruder to the $13 metal one from ebay solved a minor print quality issue that I had assumed was due to the cheap linear bearings. I've always had a bit of a pattern on my prints - it's not measurable and I can't feel it, but it is visible as a pattern in the printed surface. Well, the metal extruder with it's adjustable tension has eliminated that:
[attachment 74076 IMG_8255-X2.jpg]
On the left are single wall tests done with the original plastic extruder - you should be able to see the diagonal patterns I was getting. On the right is a test with the new metal extruder and higher idler tension - the pattern is gone, just the layer lines are left!
(excuse my fat first layers - my z probe offset was a bit off still as I was doing these tests.)
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 07, 2016 10:34PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 85 |
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tjnamtiw
First, Happy Birthday!
I'll have to keep an eye out for the wear pattern on the extruder. Maybe go ahead and order that metal replacement. Right hand drive, correct? I guess the left hand drive is for the Brits...... hahaha. Been there and done that! Scared a bunch of Brits too! Learned a few new words!
Quote
The pattern on the single wall is interesting.
Thanks again for your help. My prints are SO much better now.
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 07, 2016 10:56PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 541 |
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 07, 2016 11:48PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 38 |
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jhitesma
wear on the extruder is really hard to see, I really questioned if it was the problem or not. It was acting like a clogged nozzle, but not chewing up the filament so I figured it had to be the tension - or lack thereof.
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 08, 2016 01:49AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 85 |
Quote
tjnamtiw
I have several rolls of ESun filament PLA and haven't had any problems. Most of my stuff is Hatchbox with a couple of Inland and Sainsmart. All are running well. After running, I snip off my roll and put it into my dry box. I didn't use to do that before my red turned into Pringles! Now nothing sits out.
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 08, 2016 01:59AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 85 |
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GrouchoDuke
Quote
jhitesma
wear on the extruder is really hard to see, I really questioned if it was the problem or not. It was acting like a clogged nozzle, but not chewing up the filament so I figured it had to be the tension - or lack thereof.
I went through severe under extruding this weekend. My printer is about the same age as yours. Grrrr. Mine looked to be caused by a worn drive gear and bad alignment though. I didn't open mine up when I built it. The filament was riding right on the edge of the gear. The gear had worn some, so I pulled the gear out a bit and tightened it back down. Everything appears to be back to normal now, but I'm on the hunt for a new extruded design.
I remember someone had a sweet looking big geared setup. Sonnylowe maybe.
Hunting..,
(happy birthday!)
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 08, 2016 08:14AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 130 |
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jhitesma
Quote
GrouchoDuke
Quote
jhitesma
wear on the extruder is really hard to see, I really questioned if it was the problem or not. It was acting like a clogged nozzle, but not chewing up the filament so I figured it had to be the tension - or lack thereof.
I went through severe under extruding this weekend. My printer is about the same age as yours. Grrrr. Mine looked to be caused by a worn drive gear and bad alignment though. I didn't open mine up when I built it. The filament was riding right on the edge of the gear. The gear had worn some, so I pulled the gear out a bit and tightened it back down. Everything appears to be back to normal now, but I'm on the hunt for a new extruded design.
I remember someone had a sweet looking big geared setup. Sonnylowe maybe.
Hunting..,
(happy birthday!)
That was my first thought as I know a few other people who had the gear come loose. So that was one of the first things I did when assembling the kit - tighten it down. And sure enough it was still snug as could be.
I'm really liking the DRV8825 stepper drivers. Unfortunately I manged to kill one already It went great for the first print, but then on the second one my inductive sensor cable somehow got over the bracket I had put in place to keep those wires off the RAMPS and knocked the heat sink off shorting it out again Arrrgh!
Put on a replacement stepper, and dialed it in a bit more carefully this time. First I added a zip tie to the cables to hold them to that bracket so there's no way they can rub against the RAMPS for sure (I still want to print a cable chain but need to finish this current project first!) Then I read pololu's page about the DRV8825's....I had my vref on the current set at 0.4v which is about where I had my original stepper drivers...but apparently on these that's 0.8a current and according to folgers website our smaller steppers are only rated for 0.4a. So on the second driver I dialed it back to 0.2v and the Z is still moving smooth as silk...but even quieter and the motors are now barely above room temperature - nice! They also say that these drivers are capable of 1.5a per coil without heatsinks. So this time I left the heatsink off. I figure I've lost at least 2 and possibly 3 drivers because of the heat sinks coming loose so if these are supposedly rated to handle it without the heatsink why put one on.
First print after that went great. Except my hot end is oozing like crazy, guess I didn't get the nozzle quite tight enough after the extruder change. So gotta tear that all apart, clean it, and reassemble it. But too late for that tonight now.
Can't wait to put the DRV's on the X and Y to quiet things down a bit. Really can't wait for the extrusion I need to do Sonny's Y upgrade...though I do need to finish 3 more prints for the MPCNC before I can print the parts for that upgrade Fingers crossed OpenBuilds ships quick...my order placed Saturday for the extrusion is still showing as awaiting fulfillment, but that and the printed parts are all I'm waiting on to do the upgrade and I'd love to have it quieter this upcoming weekend! (Though the parts for the MPCNC are also scheduled to arrive the next 2-3 days so I'll have that to assemble and start working with by this weekend as well!)
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 08, 2016 11:17AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 85 |
Quote
flatlander
Did you catch this at: [www.pololu.com]?
"Warning: This carrier board uses low-ESR ceramic capacitors, which makes it susceptible to destructive LC voltage spikes, especially when using power leads longer than a few inches. Under the right conditions, these spikes can exceed the 45 V maximum voltage rating for the DRV8825 and permanently damage the board, even when the motor supply voltage is as low as 12 V. One way to protect the driver from such spikes is to put a large (at least 47 µF) electrolytic capacitor across motor power (VMOT) and ground somewhere close to the
board."
Quote
I am still struggling with getting the x-axis VREF correct. I can't seem to get the VREF low enough to keep that one stepper cool. It's either too hot or skipping because of too low torque. That little Tugboat didn't stand a chance at low current. I went for the box-o-steppers, so that I can drive the x-axis stepper with a high enough current.
Re: Folger Tech 2020 i3 Printer Kit (Official Thread) March 08, 2016 11:25AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 541 |
Quote
jhitesma
Quote
tjnamtiw
I have several rolls of ESun filament PLA and haven't had any problems. Most of my stuff is Hatchbox with a couple of Inland and Sainsmart. All are running well. After running, I snip off my roll and put it into my dry box. I didn't use to do that before my red turned into Pringles! Now nothing sits out.
This gets brittle before my heated bed cools. It doesn't even feel warm coming out of the top of the extruder - but it snaps right at the top of the extruder by the time the bed cools enough to remove a part if I don't pull it out of the extruder as soon as it's done printing. Haven't had that problem with Hatchbox, or Folger, or Atomic, or MakerGeeks.
Plus this roll of eSun stinks, almost as bad as ABS, when it prints. It also oozes more and strings more no matter what temps I print it at.
I actually ordered Hatchbox but Amazon sent me a roll of eSun with a sticker on it that said "HatchBox". I'm guessing one of their vendors had an old roll they were looking to offload. I didn't want to wait to ship it back and order a replacement so figured I'd try the eSun. Plus I didn't have time to take it to UPS to ship it back and wasn't going to be around to give it to a delivery guy to take so returning it was more hassle than it was worth. But after this I doubt I'll ever try eSun again, worst PLA I've tried yet. Maybe it's just this roll, but I'm not about to risk finding out again since there are so many other choices I like.
I keep my rolls in a vacuum bag with desiccant when I'm not using them. But this one roll has been miserable.