So many problems I don't know where to begin
August 07, 2015 03:05AM
Assembled my Folger 2020 i3 aluminum kit and I can't seem to get much to work.
Y and Z axis are SOMETIMES moving fine now (more on that at the bottom),
I've had the typical X axis issue just about everyone else has been having. It scoots along when I try to home it in Repetier-Host and bumps into the endstop but keeps scooting and won't move the other direction.
In configuration.h I've changed:
#define INVERT_X_DIR true
#define X_HOME_DIR 1
And in pins.h I've changed:
#define X_MIN_PIN 2
#define X_MAX_PIN 3
I've even changed out the endstop.

Still does it.

I've updated the firmware with the file provided by a user in the big thread. It's supposed to fix everything and have support for the LCD screen.
With that update, the X axis will move in the wrong direction then smash into the endstop and continue moving until I hit emergency stop.
I've reverted to the original from the google drive since there are more discussions about that version on the forums.

I've sent an email to the company asking for a replacement RAMPS thinking that may be the issue, but they want visual proof of the damage to the board. It was bent all to heck when I got it but I mostly bent it back to get the adruino and the stepper drivers to fit. So I just ordered another one on Amazon.

I tried homing the X axis by hand, homing Y and Z with Repetier then doing a test print.
When I go to print I disable the heated bed in Repetier and set the extruder temp at around 185. It heats to 185 (and I can physically feel the heat with my hands) and hovers around that, then the print doesn't run. It just says "heating extruder" (I think) and doesn't move. I've let it set for nearly an hour thinking maybe it just needs a good long time to actually heat up. Still doesn't work and filament oozes out.

I hit kill print and it switches to Idle mode. But now X, Y and Z will not respond in Manual Control. When I disconnect, I get a message saying the heat is still on and it asks if it should be shut off. I hit Yes. Then when I try to close the program, I get the same message. When I hit Yes, the program will not close. I have to hit No.

I've read through the big thread multiple times and it's kind of disjointed and confusing. There's some conflicting info in there, too. I've tried copying and pasting the pertinent conversations to a word file so I can try to read through things with similar topics (since it can jump from literal nuts and bolts to tuning stepper motors to configuration.h code in a half dozen posts) but it really isn't helping me.
Any help anyone can provide would ver appreciated. I'm at wits end.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2015 03:12AM by Blackbird.
Re: So many problems I don't know where to begin
August 07, 2015 04:02AM
And now the z-axis endstop has stopped working. It kept dropping until it crashed into the print bed and it has knocked everything out of whack.

EDIT
My Y axis enstop has stopped working, too. I don't understand.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2015 05:27AM by Blackbird.
Re: So many problems I don't know where to begin
August 07, 2015 12:05PM
My advice for what it's worth....

Even with a kit you still need to know what Marlin does - not every line, mainly the ones that make the motors move and stop, how fast they move and how far they move.
Do the setup in steps and don't skip any. You also (IMHO) need a multi-meter to check voltages and switch pins.
This is the order I do it in....

Get the motors moving in the right direction first and check the voltage on the stepper driver.
You will find that the motors will probably only move in one direction as they don't know where their stops are.
I don't use Repetier, rather Pronterface but with my i3 an X + moves the carriage left to right, a Y + moves the bed toward me and a Z + moves the carriage up.
Either change the wiring on the RAMPS or change:
#define INVERT_X_DIR etc either true/false, compile upload etc

Next are the end stops. M119 is your friend.
A switch is either normally open (NO) or normally closed (NC) - I prefer NO. So when the switch is hit, the contacts close and signal the RAMPS/Arduino
This is set in Marlin by:
const bool X_ENDSTOPS_INVERTING = true;
const bool Y_ENDSTOPS_INVERTING = true;
const bool Z_ENDSTOPS_INVERTING = true;
true is NO, false is NC
Check which 2 pins/wires on the switch you need to use with your multi-meter (or later with an M119)

The end stops can either be in the MIN or MAX position and the RAMPS has both MIN and MAX pins for each X, Y and Z axis.
With a standard Prusa i3 build: if the X stop is on the right it will be a MAX end stop and you need to wire the RAMPS accordingly
If the Y stop is at the back of the printer it is a MIN stop, again wire the RAMPS to the Y MIN pins
The Z is at the bottom and is a MIN end stop.
I only use 2 wires from the endstop switch to the RAMPS and use the S and - pins
In Marlin the MIN and MAX are set via:
// Sets direction of endstops when homing; 1=MAX, -1=MIN
#define X_HOME_DIR 1
#define Y_HOME_DIR -1
#define Z_HOME_DIR -1

With everything wired up and Marlin uploaded if you put the print-head in the middle of the bed with no stop triggered and give Repetier an M119 command you should see the stops "open", if you see "TRIGGERED" then you need to go back and figure out the logic. With an endstop held closed check the M119 again and you should see it "TRIGGERED"

Once that works then try home an axis, but before it hits the endstop trigger it yourself so that if it doesn't work it won't crash the axis and you have time to power off the printer.
If it homes the wrong way then you need to change from MIN to MAX or vice-versa and also change the wiring position on the RAMPS and check with an M119 again.

Also I have never had to change anything in Pins.h in the 3 Prusa i3's that I have built.

Hope this helps

Steve
Re: So many problems I don't know where to begin
August 07, 2015 10:07PM
Thank you!
I'm working on learning as much as I can. I've come a long way in the past 5 days or so but I, of course, have a long way to go.

It seems the RAMPS board is damaged, as my endstops read TRIGGERED regardless of my configure.h settings or where they're plugged in.
They are oriented as showin in the build manual and I hadn't done anything to the hardware when they apprently died. My x-axis may have bumped the endstop against the frame or... something... to cause it to short out. Because they worked fine until they didnt.
Replacements are on the way already from Amazon. I'll use what you've posted here to help figure it out once they arrive. Thank you.
Re: So many problems I don't know where to begin
August 07, 2015 10:35PM
SteveRoy is right. M119 is your friend, and the most overlooked part from the newcomers. Get your endstops configured correctly first. Then stepper direction in 1mm moves. Then home direction (be ready to stop it if it heads off in the wrong direction.) get your bed leveled, then get your Z endstop set accurately. Once it's mechanically where you want it to be, then test your heaters and thermistors for hotend/bed. PID Autotune. Now your ready for a test print. Don't get ahead of yourself. Patience is important.
Re: So many problems I don't know where to begin
August 07, 2015 11:20PM
Make sure that pullups are enabled if you are using mechanical endstops -

// coarse Endstop Settings
#define ENDSTOPPULLUPS // Comment this out (using // at the start of the line) to disable the endstop pullup resistors

If you don't, they will float, and could read pretty much anything . . . The RAMPS does *nothing* to the endstop signal between it and the Arduino - it just passes the lead along, so if they are all out, it's very unlikely that you have the same failure in three different independent circuits . . .

Or, if they are normally closed, and connected wrong (or not connected), they will read "triggered" by design . . .

- Tim
Re: So many problems I don't know where to begin
August 08, 2015 10:02PM
So if you set Marlin like this for your endstops:

const bool X_ENDSTOPS_INVERTING = true;
const bool Y_ENDSTOPS_INVERTING = true;
const bool Z_ENDSTOPS_INVERTING = true;

compile upload etc, then remove all end stop wiring from your RAMPS and give it an M119 what do you get?
If it's "open" then the RAMPS/Arduino are OK

If you short out S and - on each X,Y,Z MIN and MAX with a jumper one at a time and do an M119 what do they read?

Steve
Re: So many problems I don't know where to begin
August 09, 2015 11:07PM
Thank you for the tips.
My son and I just finished our build and wiring of the Folger 2020 and our unit is having x and z axis issues. They only move in 1 direction due to endstop errors. I expect these suggestions will help immensely.

Why don't they supply better configuration files for these things, at least to get you started?
Re: So many problems I don't know where to begin
August 10, 2015 07:13AM
Quote
SteveRoy
So if you set Marlin like this for your endstops:

const bool X_ENDSTOPS_INVERTING = true;
const bool Y_ENDSTOPS_INVERTING = true;
const bool Z_ENDSTOPS_INVERTING = true;

compile upload etc, then remove all end stop wiring from your RAMPS and give it an M119 what do you get?
If it's "open" then the RAMPS/Arduino are OK

If you short out S and - on each X,Y,Z MIN and MAX with a jumper one at a time and do an M119 what do they read?

Steve
I've only had time to remove the endstops from the ramps and M119 but the Y and Z still show triggered.

I've tried every change in the software everyone has been posting. Besides changing the X_HOME_DIR from 1 to -1 (and back again) all of the settings mentioned are already as they appear in configuration.h. I've also tried punching in the opposite of what I'm being told just in case.
I've checked the wiring a dozen times or more using the build manual as a guide and everything appears to be where it should be. I've tried moving the endstop plugs to different pins and nothing seems to help.
There must be something simple in the software I'm missing or there's a problem with the hardware.

I also have problems with Repetier-Host freezing, stalling or acting strange. I can use it to manually move an axis 10mm, wait a second, click to do it again and not only will it not move anymore, none of the others will move either.
My motors also make a lot of whining and high pitched noises until I hit emergency stop.

I've learned when I modify the Marlin code, when I click "save as" and create a new file, it overwrites the original, which is frustrating and annoying.

It looks more and more like I'm going to have to step away from it for a little while and try to learn the ins and outs of these softwares before I try again. I've been watching tutorials on youtube and it LOOKS like I'm doing everything right. I dunno. Maybe there are conflicts with Windows 10, especially on the Repetier side.
Re: So many problems I don't know where to begin
August 10, 2015 09:06AM
"Maybe there are conflicts with Windows 10" - all communication is done over serial. So if you can send GCode to the printer, Windows 10 isnt the problem. It may cause other issues, but not direction/endstop issues assuming you can successfully send Gcode. (however crashing, sending a code then freezing, etc is still an issue with windows 10 most likely)

My suggestion is, you don't seem to understand the endstop/direction relationship very well, so start over. And before getting into it, figure out what is going on. When motors make high pitch noise but do not move, its because the printer thinks your trying to move it in an INCREASING direction, so they turn on and hold their position but wont move further because it doesn't want to crash before it homes. Look at your printer shape settings in repetier, this is really important. If you change your endstop/firmware settings, repetier is still going to tell it to go the wrong way.

Theoretical home is front left of the print bed. So look where you have your endstops and adjust accordingly. An example, your x end stop is on the right, which is max (200). But the software doesn't know this, it thinks min(0) is the endstop. So by telling repetier in printer settings, X-home : max, your letting it know that it should be trying to go to the max value. If this is the case, you also need to switch the position of the endstop plug on your RAMPS from x-min to x-max (reference the schematic, or look at any of my posts on this in the main thread).

Don't just ask for help and blindly do what people are telling you to. Try to understand how it works, how yours is set up, and what needs to change. Sure a bunch of these people could help if they were in person, and through brute force attempts, you may eventually end up with correct settings, but in the future when you have problems (you will), you won't be able to solve them yourself.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2015 09:17AM by mel0n.


My creations/2020 aluminum parts/FolgerTech i3 upgrades [www.thingiverse.com]
Re: So many problems I don't know where to begin
August 10, 2015 02:07PM
You may have to adjust the motor current first. If all the motors are drawing too much current the steppersticks overheat and temporarily shut down. That may ecplain the inconsistencies. There's a tiny potentiometer on each stepperstick. Adjust them using a non metal screwdriver so that a. The steppermotors are slightly warm to the touch, not making any noise while idle, and making 'musical' noises when printing circles for example.

When the motors are working consistenyly, move on to endstop testing.
Re: So many problems I don't know where to begin
August 10, 2015 03:26PM
Quote
imqqmi
You may have to adjust the motor current first. If all the motors are drawing too much current the steppersticks overheat and temporarily shut down. That may ecplain the inconsistencies. There's a tiny potentiometer on each stepperstick. Adjust them using a non metal screwdriver so that a. The steppermotors are slightly warm to the touch, not making any noise while idle, and making 'musical' noises when printing circles for example.

When the motors are working consistenyly, move on to endstop testing.

No, that doesn't cause any of the issues he is experiencing.


My creations/2020 aluminum parts/FolgerTech i3 upgrades [www.thingiverse.com]
Re: So many problems I don't know where to begin
August 10, 2015 09:57PM
I verified my settings are

const bool X_ENDSTOPS_INVERTING = true;
const bool Y_ENDSTOPS_INVERTING = true;
const bool Z_ENDSTOPS_INVERTING = true;

If I run M119 with endstops plugged in but not engaged x,y,z Min all say "open" and x,y,z max all say "Triggered".
If I do M119 with each individual switch engaged x,y,z Min change state to "Triggered". It appears my endstops are each connected to x,y,z Min. x,y,zMax still say triggered.

Should I move my endstops to be plugged into Max instead of Min? Or change the config?

Thanks for telling me about the M119 Command. It's nice to be able to see the endstops change state.

Edit: If I remove all end stops my Mins show "Open", Maxs Show "Triggered". Is this a problem?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2015 10:04PM by AuWiMo.
Re: So many problems I don't know where to begin
August 10, 2015 11:32PM
Sounds like the same issue I'm having.
I anticipated jumping in to this and learning as I go along. Like I have with every other hobby I've ever had, especially since this is advertised as a beginners kit that's as simple as an erector set. I anticipated it being difficult but the build guides were a bit lacking on the software and troubleshooting side of things.
I'm going to boot up an old laptop with Vista and do some research on Repetier.
Re: So many problems I don't know where to begin
August 11, 2015 12:18AM
Ok I followed mel0n's posts and moved the end stop from the rightmost (7th) pin to the 6th. (to the left 1 pin).
I also went into the Repetier Config>printer settings>printer shape> and set HomeX from Min to Max.

This gave me full use of all 3 axis. It now homes for all 3 axis. Print head homes to the front right side.
Not sure if this will be my final axis configuration but at least I have full movement.

Now I can work on leveling the bed. Thanks Guys!!!
Re: So many problems I don't know where to begin
August 11, 2015 09:01AM
Quote
AuWiMo
Ok I followed mel0n's posts and moved the end stop from the rightmost (7th) pin to the 6th. (to the left 1 pin).
I also went into the Repetier Config>printer settings>printer shape> and set HomeX from Min to Max.

This gave me full use of all 3 axis. It now homes for all 3 axis. Print head homes to the front right side.
Not sure if this will be my final axis configuration but at least I have full movement.

Now I can work on leveling the bed. Thanks Guys!!!

smileys with beer Congrats! I have given up on explaining it because I have posted it at least 3-4 times now haha. Its all in the main folger 2020 thread for those who are wondering where he found it.


My creations/2020 aluminum parts/FolgerTech i3 upgrades [www.thingiverse.com]
Re: So many problems I don't know where to begin
August 12, 2015 10:29AM
Unfortunately I had tried most of the fixes that were at my skill level and nothing seemed to work (including the one AuWiMo just posted). A lot of the help (which I do appreciate, by the way) was the same thing posted over and over, just explained better / worse by the next person.

I'm happy to report my replacement RAMPS arrived yesterday and I was able to install it this morning. Movement and endstops seem to be working just fine.
The old RAMPS seemed to have only 3/4 of the endstop pins soldered solidly in place.

If anyone with FolgerTech is reading this, I suggest adding "inspect your RAMPS board for poor soldering" as an early step in the build manual. I didn't think to do that and really wish I had done it sooner.

The new RAMPS is quite a bit better. I didn't have to bend any pins, it fit better with the Adruino and the soldering work is solid. I got it here:
Amazon

I've also loaded Repetier on an old laptop with XP and it is working better. I can't say for sure Windows 10 was causing issues, but it seems to be functioning better with XP.
Re: So many problems I don't know where to begin
August 12, 2015 10:37AM
Quote
Blackbird
If anyone with FolgerTech is reading this, I suggest adding "inspect your RAMPS board for poor soldering" as an early step in the build manual. I didn't think to do that and really wish I had done it sooner.

I would like to improve on this sentence:
If anyone with FolgerTech is reading this, I suggest INSPECTING THE RAMPS BOARDS BEFORE YOU SHIP THEM. Mine was fine, but there have been half a dozen people with crappy RAMPS boards. So either they are inspecting them, and shipping them anyways, or choosing to purposely not look at them before shipping to claim ignorance. Regardless, they have to be aware of it at this point and yet, they haven't done anything. This is a problem they need to get fixed with their supplier, and stop shipping bad boards. This should be on Folger Tech, not the customers.

Glad to hear your finally up and running though! Happy printing!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2015 10:38AM by mel0n.


My creations/2020 aluminum parts/FolgerTech i3 upgrades [www.thingiverse.com]
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