RepRapPro's new printer kit (off-topic)

I've just returned from the London 3DPrint show. Of possible interest to Ormerod owners is the new 3D printer kit that RepRapPro was showing off:



It's a small delta, priced at only £199 + VAT. Best of all, it uses Duet electronics (it's running my fork of RepRapFirmware), so zpl's DuetWebControl web interface and my fast delta auto calibration come as standard.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

I see Sally in the background... I hope you talked to her and JM! They are both there. They leave me behind nowadays, I clearly can't be trusted to talk to customers...

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

Quote
droftarts
I see Sally in the background... I hope you talked to her and JM! They are both there.

Yes, I talked to both of them (and tried to sell JM some PanelDue boards), and Rongsheng too.

Quote
droftarts
They leave me behind nowadays, I clearly can't be trusted to talk to customers...

I expect you are too honest to be a salesperson.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2015 02:07PM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Techies should always be kept well away from customers. I speak as a techie myself ...

Dave

Cute !

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----- Making the world smarter @ www.xetal.eu
----- Helping entrepreneurs @ www.fralke.com

could anybody give some indication on the printbed? Is it heated? or covered with a special surface finish?
RRP website does not mention a heat-bed (from my reading)

I was wondering the same. Even if I am still trying to finish a Kossel xl, and I need to find time to fix my out if service mendel and ormerod, this looks real really cute!

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----- Making the world smarter @ www.xetal.eu
----- Helping entrepreneurs @ www.fralke.com

Quote
auser
could anybody give some indication on the printbed? Is it heated? or covered with a special surface finish?
RRP website does not mention a heat-bed (from my reading)

The bed is not heated. It had been covered in masking tape, and PLA was being printed on it.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Pity, than I will wait for s version with heated bed.

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----- Making the world smarter @ www.xetal.eu
----- Helping entrepreneurs @ www.fralke.com

£199 +VAT is going to attract some attention... and you say it has a Duet controller? 6 rails & linear bearings, 4 motors... doesn't seem to be priced along Ormerod lines.
If nothing else, I can see it being a cost-effective starter kit ripe for upgrading to get a bigger build area.

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RS Components Reprap Ormerod No. 481

I agree, I wonder if it takes the mini Kossel 160mm heated bed.

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----- Making the world smarter @ www.xetal.eu
----- Helping entrepreneurs @ www.fralke.com

RRP has published details on their web site, see [reprappro.com]. It won't take the Mini Kossel heated bed. However, if the bed is aluminium or could be replaced by aluminium, then perhaps a stick-on Kapton heater could be put on the underside.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Some details here: [reprappro.com]
The new printer is called the 'Fisher', and named, I think, after Ronald Fisher ( [en.wikipedia.org] ), continuing the theme of names related to evolutionary biologists (Darwin, Mendel, Huxley, Ormerod). It's designed as a small, cheap, 'starter' 3D printer, though it will still be pretty capable. It is single nozzle (not much space for more), and at present has no heated bed. As far as I know, it will be supplied with the same 19V 6.3A PSU as the Huxley Duo, which has a 5 ohm, 140mm x 140mm heated bed, so it's possible a heated bed upgrade will be offered in the future. But it probably means designing one specifically for this machine, or changing the PSU to match an existing bed.
I don't have much information about the Fisher beyond that on our website (though, obviously, I've watched it's development...) and I'm not sure exactly how much I'm allowed to say, yet. But you can probably discern most of the details from the pictures. Though we should probably name it 'Fisher 1', so that when/if there's a new version, people know what they've got when they contact us!

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

Ian, any plans for a less entry level version? I like what I see as frame even when compared to the Kossel xl in am building and the mini.

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----- Making the world smarter @ www.xetal.eu
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It should be a pretty scalable design, within limits, though obviously the bigger you make it, the greater the chance of flexing components.

All the black parts of the printer are lasercut acrylic (it's flatter than plywood), and very effectively hold the frame square, and it's quite surprisingly solid. The Duet is mounted underneath, between the motors. There may be a problem adding the heated bed effectively directly above the Duet, but it's early days. Obviously, the Duet has outputs for a heated bed already.

I don't think I'm giving anything away by saying there's a microswitch at the top of each tower, to home the carriages, and bed levelling is done by three contacts on opposite edges of the (currently acrylic) bed - you can see these in the pictures. The bed is sprung up against them; moving the nozzle down until it touches the bed disconnects any one of them, effectively triggering a fourth endstop. By probing at different points on the bed, bed level is calculated.

Direct links to images, in case you want a closer look: [reprappro.com] [reprappro.com]

dc42: I hope JM had a good chat to you about firmware... as you point out, it has yours on it!

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

Quote
droftarts
As far as I know, it will be supplied with the same 19V 6.3A PSU as the Huxley Duo, which has a 5 ohm, 140mm x 140mm heated bed, so it's possible a heated bed upgrade will be offered in the future. But it probably means designing one specifically for this machine, or changing the PSU to match an existing bed.

These people [www.aliexpress.com] will do a custom silicone heater to your size, voltage and power specifications, and even for 1-off the price is very good. I had them make me a 300mm diameter 230V 350W heater for my delta printer upgrade. You would need insulation under it (e.g. cork or corrugated cardboard with aluminium foil or tape on top) to keep the heat away from the Duet. Perhaps also a small fan blowing air over the Duet - although as the stepper motor current and bed heater current would be low compared to the values used on an Ormerod, that might prove unnecessary if the base is designed so that some air will circulate naturally.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

I already dothat for my unfinished Kossel XL (or better in the one if my friend that is operational as my Kossel is far from it since the operarional one has issues of turning motors) as the electronics is under an headed plate, thus we have wood insulation and a fan.
I am so tempted by this ... Really tempted. If only you guys would just make it compatible with 160mm beds! Just a bit larger, not much!

What material is the bed surface?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2015 08:22AM by Fpex.

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----- Making the world smarter @ www.xetal.eu
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Hi Fpex

The bed is acrylic. Whether this, or any other details, change before beta release, I just don't know! But I would tend to guess probably not. That doesn't mean that the 'non-beta' version will be the same, of course!

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

Mmm acrylic heated ... Not sure about it,

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----- Making the world smarter @ www.xetal.eu
----- Helping entrepreneurs @ www.fralke.com

The acrylic isn't heated... Or are you worried by the acrylic being heated by the hot end? In testing, with tape on the bed, this hasn't been an issue.

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

Looking forward to the Fisher.. (I already have a Mendel and a Ormerod.)
We do a fair amount of 3D printing now but almost all of it is in ABS, and so a heated bed plus a few chemicals is absolutely required for our work to ensure warp-free prints - (and sometimes we do nylon or PET, and again a heated bed is handy.)
I know that there are quite a few printers there that don't have a heated bed, and it all adds to cost, etc. But I think RRP should definitely include a heated bed with the Fisher.
If it already has a Duet, then I guess its just a question of adding a larger power supply, a silicone heat-bed (or a custom 150 mm PCB could be designed as well!), insulation and a fan for Duet.
(It can get fairly hot here so our hack on Ormerod and Mendel has a cooling fan mounted on the electronics - (earlier we had a few step misses, a burnt out heat-bed MOSFET - the fan takes care of all these problems now!)
So my feedback to RRP - PLEASE DO INCLUDE A HEAT-BED to the Fisher!!

-Sumant

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2015 11:28AM by 7sumantb.

Ian, I was worried of putting a heated bed but acrylics, I am no expert if they can take temps suitable for abs ... Assuming the hot end can sustain the high temps also.
Also my PLA prints come out much better with an heated bed.

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----- Making the world smarter @ www.xetal.eu
----- Helping entrepreneurs @ www.fralke.com

Bear in mind that the Fisher is meant to be an entry-level printer and it has a small build area (150mm diameter) - although with Duet electronics and what looks to me like a very stable frame, I think it will be way better than most entry level printers. If you already have 2 printers, then I suspect you will find the build area too small. I built a Mini Kossel and upgraded it to Duet electronics (see my blog for details), and although it worked very well and could print ABS from day 1, I often had designs I wanted to print that would fit on the Ormerod but not on the 170mm diameter bed of the Mini Kossel. So I am now completing a 1m high (480mm printable height) x 330mm diameter (300 mm printable) Kossel variant.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

To install a heated bed, it might be possible to return the frame, with motors and board on top, so no cooling problem, and install the bed on what is now the roof, with insulation from the acrylic. that will also simplify switch wiring.

Having weight on top is not the best, but for this size, with a rigid frame, that could do the trick.

Another question, if acrylic is laser cut, how do you deal with acrylic cracking tendancy ?

Regards

Yes I hate the fact thst tje acrylic of my form1+ gets cracks, especially the tank!

Dc42 I actually have four printer, but one (the Kossel xl) is far from finished. And this small one seems much more stable in Italy frame.

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----- Making the world smarter @ www.xetal.eu
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DC,
Do let us know how your 300x480 Kossel works out.. My experience with the bigger build printers is that the frame needs to be heavy and stable, because vibrations etc multiply and this affects machine movements, and print quality. So, I am ok with the smaller foot-print machine for doing my small parts - at the end print quality is important (to us).

Quote
7sumantb
DC,
Do let us know how your 300x480 Kossel works out.. My experience with the bigger build printers is that the frame needs to be heavy and stable, because vibrations etc multiply and this affects machine movements, and print quality. So, I am ok with the smaller foot-print machine for doing my small parts - at the end print quality is important (to us).

I finished wiring it up and I got as far as homing it last night. I hope to print on it today. I'm using 2020 (and some 2060) extrusions with metal corners, and it seems to be sturdy enough.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2015 04:36AM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

The XL I am building vi rated tok much and we also noticed tha the motors so,e how tend to turn. We are not so happy about the standard typical frame and probably something woth panels would be better than extrusions,

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----- Making the world smarter @ www.xetal.eu
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There is some equipment (small brass columns) nearby the rods. I was initially thinking of a belt tensioning system by moving the steppers. However, looking closely the photo made by David, there are three orange pads on the effector, so that may be part of a calibration system ? These pads are not seen on the RRP site site photos, where the effector looks built by stacking acrylic plates.
As these pads somewhat reduce the usable diameter, they shall have an important purpose ?
Also, the diameter within the rods is ~245 mm, so there is sufficient room to accomodate Kossel heat bed (180 mm diam), if these beds do not conflict with this system (looks not). Also the heat bed shall go through the frame opening, but that looks ok, either.

From the photo I cannot see how we could fit a 160mm heated plate.

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----- Making the world smarter @ www.xetal.eu
----- Helping entrepreneurs @ www.fralke.com