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Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?

Posted by Wired1 
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Wired1
Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 07, 2012 04:44PM
Subject says it all really.
So when printing small delcate objects it looks like it would help to have a fan close to the hot end to cool them rapidly to help the structure hold together - it also looks like it is better to print multiples of small items so the hot end has something else to do while the line you have just printed cools down.
Is anyone using a fan mounted close to the hot end to do something like this? My printrboard controller has a fan output and I see Slic3r/Pronterface supports one so I guess it must be a good idea.

Post a picture of your fan setup please if you are running one.

This forum is the world's worst for seaching for anything by the way.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2012 04:45PM by Wired1.

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Richmond, New Zealand
Thingiverse ~ YouTube
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Dust
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 07, 2012 06:13PM
I was sceptical about adding a fan for a while, then tried it, I will never go back!

It is very hard to quantify what it does, but it basically solidifies the plastic quicker so there is less deformation

I use a y carriage with a 40mm fan mount eg [www.thingiverse.com]
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Wired1
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 08, 2012 01:06AM
I'm using PRINTRBOARD electronics which has a fan output but unclear on it's polarity, voltage or available current.
I don't suppose anyone reading this knows the details of this output?

Update: the supplier has just advised it is 12 volt and the positive terminal is closest to the rest button if anyone else reads this later on.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2012 01:42AM by Wired1.

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Richmond, New Zealand
Thingiverse ~ YouTube
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DeuxVis
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 08, 2012 04:07AM
Comparison of (interupted) yoda prints with and without fan (without on the right) :



My fan mount wouldn't help you as my setup is specific (fan blowing on its side and techzone huxley machine), but get sure to insulate you hotend to avoid heat loss as possible and obviously leave some clearance (couple of mm) between the fan lower parts and the bed.

Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.
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Wired1
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 08, 2012 05:14AM
Thanks, I am printing a couple of adjustable mounts for a pair of pcb fans and will try them out in a few positions hanging off the x-carriage belt clamps. I got the code working to run the fans so I'll mount them and see how it goes.

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Richmond, New Zealand
Thingiverse ~ YouTube
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matwelli
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 08, 2012 03:32PM
do you have the fan on all the time, or after the first couple of layers have been laid down ?
Guess i need to incorperate one into my huxley when it turns up.
Does anyone have a photo of their setup ?

Cheers

Mat
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Wired1
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 08, 2012 09:58PM
I am using Pronterface with Slic3r and in the slic3r setup you can specify the fan details which include the number of layers at which they start to work. As you want the first layer to stick, by default the fan comes on after the first layer. There are also setting to slow it down depending on the print speed, not sure if this is actually done or just a useful feature that might be used one day.
I bought some cheap pcb fans off fleabay and have rigged up one to work hanging from the x-carriage but it doesn't move enough air so I will get a stronger fan and design a duct to direct it better. I will put up some photos when it is up and running.

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Richmond, New Zealand
Thingiverse ~ YouTube
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Dust
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 09, 2012 01:50AM
Myne is just on as long as the power is on. Directly wired to the power supply, but it is only a little 40mm fax and ive only used PLA
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Wired1
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 09, 2012 07:16AM
Well the fan is helping even with the little one I'm running. I bought another one tonight on the net which will shift a bit more air but for now this is helping.


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Richmond, New Zealand
Thingiverse ~ YouTube
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Dust
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 09, 2012 07:40AM
Looks quite good, and worryingly like chocolate!
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Wired1
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 09, 2012 04:11PM
Yes it's a horrible colour - I'll use it up on sturdy, utilitarian prints smiling smiley
How do you get a photo to show in this forum?

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Richmond, New Zealand
Thingiverse ~ YouTube
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ithinkthatmaybe
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 09, 2012 04:45PM
We have tried using a fan but found it lowered our nozzle temp rapidly. I've seen people using ducting systems to direct the airflow around the nozzle and directly onto the print, though I didnt find anything I liked that was really tailored for prusa. Just have to get around to modelling one.
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Dust
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 09, 2012 05:42PM
You need insulation around your hot end if you have a fan blowing at it.

eg makergear hot end comes with Rubber Coated Black Fiberglass Insulation, and has two layers of this over the hot end.
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Wired1
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 09, 2012 05:53PM
My printer always prints anticlockwise so as long as it was ducted and aimed behind the printer head I think it should work . It is working better now just with the weak fan aimed generally in the direction of the work. It wouldn't be hard to make a shield to surround the print head say 10mm away from it to keep the breeze away.

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Richmond, New Zealand
Thingiverse ~ YouTube
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ithinkthatmaybe
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 09, 2012 11:25PM
It was a makergear hot end. The thing took ages to heat up as well. not sure it was getting enough current
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Inquisitor
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 10, 2012 12:40AM
What about with a heated build environment?
Some people seem to think they are a good idea, but this is the exact opposite of using a coolong fan.
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Wired1
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 10, 2012 01:35AM
Yes I reckon that is right, the heated bed would only be useful for the first couple of layers, after that you may as well turn it off. I think the whole idea is to quickly cool the filament to harden it up and stop it being distorted by the drag of the printer head.

Just had a look at Slic3r's settings and it has a temperature setting for the bed followed by a temperature setting for the first layer so I'd be tempted to set it to 60 degrees for the first layer and zero for all other layers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2012 01:37AM by Wired1.

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Richmond, New Zealand
Thingiverse ~ YouTube
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NelsonRap
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 10, 2012 02:55AM
If you turn the heated bed off halfway through the print will ping off as it needs the heat. PLA shrinks as it cools from printing temp to solid temp but if there is 0 heat at the bed it shrinks too far and comes off. I found this out when a wire broke on my heated bed

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Experimenting in 3D in New Zealand
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Wired1
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 10, 2012 03:45AM
Ah that makes sense, does it need to be 60 degrees allthe way through? as it gets taller the upper layers will be cooler anyway.

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Richmond, New Zealand
Thingiverse ~ YouTube
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NelsonRap
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 10, 2012 04:16AM
I don't know my bed is either on or off, working towards having it adjustable though and to print off SD card once finally moved, everything is packed away for now

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Experimenting in 3D in New Zealand
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se5a
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 11, 2012 03:10PM
Duno if any of you use a buda, but this is what I did:
[www.thingiverse.com]

might be possible to adapt/redesign it for other types.
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Wired1
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
August 25, 2012 07:56PM
Improved my fan design for use with a better x-carriage.

Download here: [www.thingiverse.com]

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Richmond, New Zealand
Thingiverse ~ YouTube
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tosjduenfs
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
October 28, 2012 09:14AM
As a note I think it would be a good idea to retune your PID settings for your hot end if you are using a fan since it is greatly changing it's normal operating environment. If you use marlin just do your autopid tuning again with the fan running.
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BertFromProtoneer
Re: Adding a fan - will it improve print quality?
October 29, 2012 03:55AM
I have a UP! Plus 3d printer and it has an adjustable vent close to the printing head.

I have noted that when I print PLA its better to have the vent open so that the cold air
is blown onto the printed part.

With ABS it has been a total different game. If I keep the vent open it tends to cool
the ABS down to quick and I end up with lots of warping in the parts.

PLA is so much nicer to print with but it does tend to make the little spider webs that
ABS does not do on my printer.

Protoneer.co.nz - Blog - [blog.Protoneer.co.nz]
Protoneer.co.nz - Shop - [shop.Protoneer.co.nz]
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