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Duet development news

Posted by dc42 
Duet development news
February 03, 2016 04:39AM
For the last two years I have maintained a fork of RepRapFirmware for Duet electronics, but although I made a few suggestions for hardware improvements, I have not been actively involved in the Duet hardware design.

I am pleased to announce that Think3DPrint3D (who manufacture the Duet 0.8.5) and my own company Escher3D have been working on a design for the next-generation Duet for several weeks, and we recently signed a joint development agreement. The new board will be available later this year. We are not disclosing full details yet - indeed some details have not been finalised, pending extensive testing with the prototypes. However, I can disclose that it will feature an ARM Cortex M4 processor (with embedded floating-point processor) and that we have taken into account feedback from users of the Duet 0.8.5. For example, it will use larger terminals for the hot end heater connections.

T3P3 have said that the Duet 0.8.5 will also continue to be produced as long as there is demand for it.

My involvement with Duet hardware does not decrease my commitment to support the use of my company's products with other electronics. In particular, I will continue to support my mini differential IR sensor when used with RAMPS and other popular electronics, and PanelDue with any platform that provides the necessary firmware support. Both the Smoothieware and Repetier developers have PanelDue boards to work with, and the Repetier dev build already has most of the support needed.

On a side note, I am about to move home and office, and I will not have access to fast broadband for a couple of weeks or so. Therefore my appearances on these forums may be somewhat limited.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Duet development news
February 03, 2016 07:59AM
Thanks David.
I very interesting post, I look forward to the details in the future.
Hope the move goes well.

If I can do any testing, please let me know.


appjaws - Ormerod 1, core XYUV Duet wifi, duex5
firmware 1.21 Web Server 1.21 Web Interface 1.21
OpenSCAD version 2016.02.09 (git 9950e6a)
slic3r-1.38.5-prusa3d and/or Simplify3D 4.0.0
Re: Duet development news
February 03, 2016 08:08AM
Nice! Looking forward to this.
Something I would welcome is a smaller size. The current PCB footprint is rather large. Not a huge problem, but still.
Re: Duet development news
February 03, 2016 08:30AM
Unfortunately, smaller size has serious disadvantages. The connectors would have to be all over the board instead of predominantly at the edges, which makes the wiring messy. Reduced PCB area means poorer cooling for the stepper drivers, with consequent risk of overheating. Small boards such as RAMPS suffer from both. OTOH the Duet is not as tall as RAMPS + Arduino, which is an advantage in some situations.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Duet development news
February 03, 2016 08:47AM
I much prefer a larger size. The printer itself is large and irregular in shape so there are plenty of places to mount a large board that will not affect the overall footprint of the printer, not to mention the fact that the PSU is quite big, so I see no advantage whatsoever in having a small controller board. Large connectors are far more robust and easier to connect to, and the currents involved in many of the circuits can be accommodated by thick PCB traces on a large board but would need external wiring on a smaller board. In particular I would suggest a full size SD card socket (assuming an SD card will still be necessary), and a type B USB socket - though the latter is not so important seeing that the USB rarely needs to be connected.

A large board also has the advantage that you can put clear markings on the board to label the jumpers and connectors.

Out of interest, which CPU have you chosen, David?

Dave

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2016 08:49AM by dmould.
Re: Duet development news
February 03, 2016 09:08AM
This is really interesting, I always found the smoothie a better and more stable board also based on ARM. Make sure to make something modular and maybe use the same type of connectors are the smoothie.


----- Making the world smarter @ www.xetal.eu
----- Helping entrepreneurs @ www.fralke.com
Re: Duet development news
February 03, 2016 10:38AM
The connectors will be predominantly Molex KK series or compatible, as used on recent production Duet 0.8.5 boards (see [www.think3dprint3d.com]). From photos, I think that's what the Smoothie -XC variants use too.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Duet development news
February 03, 2016 12:58PM
Specs has been listed but for someone like me with limited hardware and electronic engineering knowledge what are benefits/advantages for the end user?

Maybe it is far too early but the immediate question that arises for me is if would this be an upgrade for a 0.6 or 0.85? Or is it more of a natural evolvment aimed at new users?

Any how it is lovely to see things are moving forward.
[Edit:spelling]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2016 04:46PM by fotomas.
Re: Duet development news
February 03, 2016 02:25PM
The Duet 0.8.5 and indeed the Duet 0.6 are very good boards and entirely adequate to meet most 3D printer requirements. So we expect most sales of the next-generation Duet to be for new printers, just like the Duet 0.8.5. If you do decide that your printer would benefit from an upgrade to the new Duet (let's call it the Duet NG), then you will find the transition easy, because it will run RepRapFirmware which you are already familiar with.

The upgrade from ARM Cortex M3 to ARM Cortex M4 is mostly of benefit to firmware developers such as myself, because it provides higher speed (especially for floating point computations) and more RAM. It's a no-brainer because ARM Cortex M4 processors cost about the same as ARM Cortex M3 processors (such as the one on the Duet) these days.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Duet development news
February 05, 2016 02:02AM
Interesting news. i am using the 0.6 ( i would like to go to 0.8.5 ) and it is a wonderfull board. if 0.8.5 is better how much better would the new board be ? Good news .
Re: Duet development news
February 05, 2016 02:50AM
Any chance of improving the stepper motor drivers using such as the Trinomic? Anything to reduce the noise of the printer would be welcome.

jondel
Re: Duet development news
February 05, 2016 04:52AM
(deleted)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2016 06:45AM by Fpex.


----- Making the world smarter @ www.xetal.eu
----- Helping entrepreneurs @ www.fralke.com
Re: Duet development news
February 05, 2016 03:58PM
No decision has yet been made on what stepper motor drivers the Duet NG will use. We have more testing to do.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Duet development news
February 05, 2016 06:08PM
Hey dc42,
Can you say anything more about which processor will be used?
Re: Duet development news
February 06, 2016 01:44AM
Quote
ambrop7
Hey dc42,
Can you say anything more about which processor will be used?

Read his first post more carefully, it is in there...
Re: Duet development news
February 06, 2016 02:50AM
Quote
fotomas
Quote
ambrop7
Hey dc42,
Can you say anything more about which processor will be used?

Read his first post more carefully, it is in there...

Actually it isn't in there just the series of Processor is given there are various variants of the M4 to choose from
Re: Duet development news
February 06, 2016 02:55AM
Sorry my bad then. I do not have that deep knowledge in the area.

You could have been a bit clearer in your question thou; "what specific variant of the M4 processor are you going to use?"
Re: Duet development news
February 06, 2016 07:11AM
Quote
fotomas
Sorry my bad then. I do not have that deep knowledge in the area.

You could have been a bit clearer in your question thou; "what specific variant of the M4 processor are you going to use?"

It wasn't actually me that was asking but I do know what you mean winking smiley
Re: Duet development news
February 06, 2016 12:46PM
I hope the next Duet PCB includes the MAX31855 thermocouple device.
Seems to work so much better than NTC thermistor potential divider winking smiley

[forums.reprap.org]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2016 12:47PM by JuJuDelta.


Regards,

Julian S.

T3DP3D Mini Kossel, E3D V6 hot end, 0.4mm nozzle, 200mm diameter Ali heated bed, Duet v0.8.5 & dc42 rep rap v1.18. DWC v1.15, PanelDue-7-1.16 DC42 IR Z Probe, 2 X MAX31855 &Thermocouples, PID heated enclosure, SolidWorks 2017, slic3r
Re: Duet development news
February 06, 2016 04:38PM
We have looked at how to make it easier for users to interface both thermocouples and PT100 temperature sensors to the new board.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Duet development news
February 07, 2016 02:57PM
I cannot wait for the new board. I am using the 0.6 Duet and see no need to jump to 0.8.5. However, I might con myself into buying the Duet NG if it has more advantages.

I also would like larger on board connectors for the heatbed and hotend. And the big reason for me to jump to 0.8.5 would be that there is an onboard Paneldue link and an onboard IR board link (it is assumed the duet ng will have those). Duet 0.6 does not have those. I would also be able to get rid of the duex4 board which is adding thickness to my duet0.6 enclosure box.
Re: Duet development news
February 07, 2016 05:38PM
The Duet 0.8.5 already has the larger bed heater terminal block. It has 2.5mm pitch screw terminals for the hot ends. The hot end wires in T3P3's kits fit these well enough, but in response to user feedback we are moving to larger hot end terminal blocks for the NG.

The NG will keep the separate Z probe and PanelDue connectors.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Duet development news
February 08, 2016 01:10PM
It might be nice to have a Thermocouple interface for each hot end. It could be as simple as connector to make it easy to wire up the boards that are supported today (as opposed to using the expansion connector) or maybe actually integrate the amplifier on board (assuming it didn't greatly increase the expense of the main board)
Re: Duet development news
February 08, 2016 03:11PM
We plan to make interfacing thermocouples and RTDs easier with the new board.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Duet development news
February 12, 2016 04:19AM
In that case dc42 I may run with the original repaired board until Duet NG is available. Have you an idea on a price, will it be around the same as the 0.8.5 ?
Re: Duet development news
February 12, 2016 07:14AM
If you've not finalised the CPU you intend to use, I've been happy with the Atmel SAMA5D3 series CPU (ARM Cortex A5 core) for a couple of my projects. Most in that series have an LCD interface, so you could even have a connector to drive a touchscreen panel if you wanted. Downside is it's BGA so needs 0.1mm gap & track for the PCB and small vias for the CPU area. A development board is available for suitability testing.

Dave
Re: Duet development news
February 12, 2016 01:32PM
Thanks Dave, however we've already chosen an ARM Cortex M4 chip, and that is what is on the first prototype boards.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Duet development news
February 14, 2016 11:40PM
If you could add or re-purpose a LED to indicate when the board is fully booted and the web interface is fully ready, that would be a cool addition. I find sometimes I jump the gun on a reboot after a config change.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2016 11:40PM by WZ9V.
Re: Duet development news
February 15, 2016 08:38AM
Quote
WZ9V
If you could add or re-purpose a LED to indicate when the board is fully booted and the web interface is fully ready, that would be a cool addition. I find sometimes I jump the gun on a reboot after a config change.

Seeing that the Duet is often hidden away, it might be an idea to flash all LEDs including bed and hotend, which are often connected to external indicators.

Another neat trick is to use the stepper motors as sounders by moving them a step or microstep back and forth at audio frequencies - they can even be made to play a tune! This is what the speed controller (ESC) does with brushless motors in the R/C model world (brushless motors are essentially stepper motors). With 4 motors it should be possible to play chords for a really good musical sound :-)

Dave
PRZ
Re: Duet development news
February 16, 2016 10:46PM
Dave,
For the sound, this is already possible, I tested it while setting a command at the end of the config.g file:
M98 P/macros/music.gcode

as music I used something I found here :
[www.thingiverse.com]

I had to shorten the file to 50 lines, as with these files, the head move, and on a non homed delta, that may drive to serious troubles.
Also, all 'G01' were replaced by 'G1' and G04 by G4 and the comments were prefixed by ';' to have the file playing 'music'.
That is not really nice and my machine (the D-Box) is well sound-proofed, but that works and I think that for commissioning that could be quite useful (with door open !).
However, to test a delta, you may want to have the motors running independantly with different sounds, which need G-code modification with added parameters to select the column X, Y Z instead of the X,Y,Z movement (S02 parameter).

I also found these sites :
[en.homeconstructor.de]
[github.com]

Pierre

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2016 10:49PM by PRZ.
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