Heater faults with 1.15c
Posted by DADIY
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Heater faults with 1.15c September 08, 2016 02:16PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 301 |
Is there any way to disable the heater fault checking. I've been several hours into a print I've done regularly for a while and a heater fault gets logged and the printer air prints until it's noticed.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2016 01:55AM by DADIY.
DC42 Kossel 330mm x 2meters
My Thingiverse Creations
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2016 01:55AM by DADIY.
DC42 Kossel 330mm x 2meters
My Thingiverse Creations
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15b3 September 08, 2016 03:51PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 548 |
Current version is 1.15c. The allowable temperature drop was increased to 10C in 1.15b. [github.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2016 03:53PM by stephenrc.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2016 03:53PM by stephenrc.
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15b3 September 09, 2016 01:55AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 301 |
That was a typo - Im running 1.15c and I'm pretty sure the temperature isnt actually dropping more likely being misread and triggering the fault.
DC42 Kossel 330mm x 2meters
My Thingiverse Creations
DC42 Kossel 330mm x 2meters
My Thingiverse Creations
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15b3 September 09, 2016 02:48AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
The firmware tolerates the temperature reading being out of tolerance for several seconds before considering there is a fault. When using a thermistor, it averages a number of readings (16 AFAIR), and when using a thermocouple or PT100 it tolerates several failed reads in a row. So you shouldn't get heater faults due to mis-reading unless the mis-reading is prolonged. Perhaps you have a dodgy heater or thermistor connection?
Did you tune the heater and use M307 in config.g to save the model parameters? If not then it could be that your PID settings have marginal stability.
Have you watched the temperature readings during printing, ro see how stable they are? The worst point is usually when the print cooling fan comes on at the end of the first layer.
When a heater fault is triggered, a message is written to the console giving the nature of the fault. But I guess that is being lost because of the failed extrusion messages.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Did you tune the heater and use M307 in config.g to save the model parameters? If not then it could be that your PID settings have marginal stability.
Have you watched the temperature readings during printing, ro see how stable they are? The worst point is usually when the print cooling fan comes on at the end of the first layer.
When a heater fault is triggered, a message is written to the console giving the nature of the fault. But I guess that is being lost because of the failed extrusion messages.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15b3 September 09, 2016 03:43AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 301 |
Yes I did the PID tuning and saved the settings using M307. When I watch the graph the temperatures are fairly stable this seems to happen after 3 hours of printing roughly. When I checked the console messages it was empty just the blue bubble with the Heater fault was on the screen - it was gone before I could see all the details. Its happened a few times now but only when it's several hours in, Short prints are always fine. I don't think there are any loose connections.
I'll try another long print latter and try and keep a closer eye on it.
DC42 Kossel 330mm x 2meters
My Thingiverse Creations
I'll try another long print latter and try and keep a closer eye on it.
DC42 Kossel 330mm x 2meters
My Thingiverse Creations
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15b3 September 09, 2016 08:03AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 10 |
I have reported same/similar fault:
[forums.reprap.org]
After that, I have experienced another one, during print, at 1st quarter of 2-hour job. Same type of error message. Between my report and that last fault, I have upgraded/replaced my PSU and heaters to 24V versions and have re-run autotuning.
Since it has been difficult to reproduce and I really haven't had the time to test thoroughly, I haven't complained anymore.
[forums.reprap.org]
After that, I have experienced another one, during print, at 1st quarter of 2-hour job. Same type of error message. Between my report and that last fault, I have upgraded/replaced my PSU and heaters to 24V versions and have re-run autotuning.
Since it has been difficult to reproduce and I really haven't had the time to test thoroughly, I haven't complained anymore.
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15b3 September 09, 2016 12:00PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 20 |
I am using 1.15c on both of my Ormerods - it works fine on my Ormerod 2. I find the temperature fault code has made it impossible to print with ABS on my Ormerod 1 - for which the bed heater is hopelessly underpowered. I can just get the bed to 120 so that ABS sticks to the glass plate (by insulating it before beginning the print) - but, whilst printing the first layer the nozzle cooling fan causes the bed temperature to drop more than 10oC triggering a heater fault. It isn't a heater fault. Is there anyway we can increase the tolerance - or even better disable the function that triggers the fault and then results in disaster as the print lifts off the bed?
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15b3 September 09, 2016 02:10PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 71 |
due to these reports, wouldnt it be good to let the user decide if he wants to use the protection?
David, is it complicated to implement a switch to enable/disable that?
Or let the users set their own tolerances?
By default it should be switched on, but it should be posible to disable/ change values for the advanced user.
David, is it complicated to implement a switch to enable/disable that?
Or let the users set their own tolerances?
By default it should be switched on, but it should be posible to disable/ change values for the advanced user.
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15b3 September 09, 2016 05:30PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 93 |
I'm agree with @critical_limit, it would be great if user will be able to set limits or be able to disable protection at all. Then I starting my 4 (four) 120-mm coolers, hotend (e3dv6) temperature drops up to 8-9 degrees, after that it takes a long time until the temperature stabilizes again. It seems that I'm also very close to this "heater fault" error.
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15b3 September 10, 2016 05:44AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
Quote
ChristofSchwiening
I am using 1.15c on both of my Ormerods - it works fine on my Ormerod 2. I find the temperature fault code has made it impossible to print with ABS on my Ormerod 1 - for which the bed heater is hopelessly underpowered. I can just get the bed to 120 so that ABS sticks to the glass plate (by insulating it before beginning the print) - but, whilst printing the first layer the nozzle cooling fan causes the bed temperature to drop more than 10oC triggering a heater fault. It isn't a heater fault. Is there anyway we can increase the tolerance - or even better disable the function that triggers the fault and then results in disaster as the print lifts off the bed?
As a workaround, you could command the bed temperature down to 110C at the end of the first layer.
The usual way to increase the heating power on an Ormerod 1 is to increase the power supply voltage a little.
In the next firmware release I may make the allowable temperature drop configurable.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15b3 September 10, 2016 05:20PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 319 |
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15b3 September 11, 2016 02:24AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
Quote
DRTak
I am in the same boat. I cant get my Kossel to heat up to 265deg C for a PET G print after upgrading the firmware. It is driving me nuts. I assume my power supply is underpowered. So at 44deg C it just says fault and will not heat up anymore. I am using firmware 1.15C.
If it's cutting out that early in the heating process, then the gain parameter in the heater model is much too large for your heater, or the dead time parameter is too small. Either you didn't run auto tuning, or you did but the process didn't correctly evaluate the parameters, or you didn't copy the auto tune output correctly into the M307 command in config.g
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15b3 September 11, 2016 05:17PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 319 |
Quote
dc42
Quote
DRTak
I am in the same boat. I cant get my Kossel to heat up to 265deg C for a PET G print after upgrading the firmware. It is driving me nuts. I assume my power supply is underpowered. So at 44deg C it just says fault and will not heat up anymore. I am using firmware 1.15C.
If it's cutting out that early in the heating process, then the gain parameter in the heater model is much too large for your heater, or the dead time parameter is too small. Either you didn't run auto tuning, or you did but the process didn't correctly evaluate the parameters, or you didn't copy the auto tune output correctly into the M307 command in config.g
I have not messed with the gain. But I did extend the dead time to 60 but that didnt help. However, It correctly auto tuned the heatbed. But it does not auto tune the hot end. I get a temperature fault after a few seconds and the autotune for the hotend stops.
I have reverted back to the old firmware 1.14 for the Paneldue, firmware 1.11 for web interface, and Firmware 1.14 for duet.
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15b3 September 12, 2016 02:10AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 301 |
I re ran the auto tune with a different PWM value which in turned reduced the gain by about 20% - after doing this I didn't have issues with the hot end for a long print but I did get a warning that my heated bed was faulty due to it heating up too slowly, which disapeared on the second attempt. I thought the two heaters were separate and that the bed heater was using the bang bang and not pid.
DC42 Kossel 330mm x 2meters
My Thingiverse Creations
DC42 Kossel 330mm x 2meters
My Thingiverse Creations
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15b3 September 12, 2016 04:30AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
Drtak, if auto tuning the hot end fails after a few seconds, that probably means you have a slow or weak hot end heater. Try increasing the hot end heater dead time and reducing the gain temporarily using M307 and if necessary use a higher auto tune PWM than 0.5 too.
DADIY, yes the heaters are separate. Even though the bed defaults to bang bang, it still uses the bed heater model parameters to detect heater fault. Auto tuning the bed to find its parameters will avoid this.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
DADIY, yes the heaters are separate. Even though the bed defaults to bang bang, it still uses the bed heater model parameters to detect heater fault. Auto tuning the bed to find its parameters will avoid this.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15c September 13, 2016 03:57AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 14 |
I am also having issues with my bed, duet 0.6 and i think it looks like it is just due to noise? If i get the bed up to temp 105deg c and run a print it all seams good but on warm up i often have it fault a few times.
No issues with the hot end.
The bed has huge thermal mass 6mm aluminum plate, so can afford for it to average readings over a wider time for the bed.
Daniel
No issues with the hot end.
The bed has huge thermal mass 6mm aluminum plate, so can afford for it to average readings over a wider time for the bed.
Daniel
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15c September 13, 2016 06:28AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
If the bed heater faults on warm up, that usually means that you haven't tuned it and it is weaker or slower than the default model. Tuning it should avoid the problem, even if you prefer to continue controlling it in bang-bang mode.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15c September 13, 2016 01:39PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 301 |
Hmm I'm not sure PID/PWM control with an SSR is such a good idea.
18:37:25M307 H0
Heater 0 model: gain 185.3, time constant 661.9, dead time 18.0, max PWM 1.00, in use: yes, mode: PID
Setpoint change: P35.5, I0.05, D446.4
Load change: P35.5, I0.99, D446.4
18:35:51Warning: Heater 0 appears to be over-powered and a fire risk! If left on at full power, its temperature is predicted to reach 205C.
Auto tune heater 0 with PWM=0.40 completed in 1841 sec, maximum temperature reached 96.6C
Use M307 H0 to see the result
DC42 Kossel 330mm x 2meters
My Thingiverse Creations
18:37:25M307 H0
Heater 0 model: gain 185.3, time constant 661.9, dead time 18.0, max PWM 1.00, in use: yes, mode: PID
Setpoint change: P35.5, I0.05, D446.4
Load change: P35.5, I0.99, D446.4
18:35:51Warning: Heater 0 appears to be over-powered and a fire risk! If left on at full power, its temperature is predicted to reach 205C.
Auto tune heater 0 with PWM=0.40 completed in 1841 sec, maximum temperature reached 96.6C
Use M307 H0 to see the result
DC42 Kossel 330mm x 2meters
My Thingiverse Creations
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15c September 13, 2016 08:35PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 517 |
Upgraded to 1.15c earlier and tuned my hotend and heated bed. Ran a print and let everything cool down. Turned the hotend back on to change filament and when it reached the target temperature of 205, I got this...
Error: heating fault on heater 1, temperature rising much more slowly than the expected 0.0°C/sec
Interesting. It was rising slower that not rising at all?
Error: heating fault on heater 1, temperature rising much more slowly than the expected 0.0°C/sec
Interesting. It was rising slower that not rising at all?
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15c September 13, 2016 11:07PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 14 |
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15c September 13, 2016 11:09PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 517 |
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15c September 14, 2016 03:38AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
Quote
DADIY
Hmm I'm not sure PID/PWM control with an SSR is such a good idea.
PWM frequency for the bed and chamber heaters is 10Hz, for compatibility with SSRs.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15c September 14, 2016 03:40AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
Quote
ElmoC
Upgraded to 1.15c earlier and tuned my hotend and heated bed. Ran a print and let everything cool down. Turned the hotend back on to change filament and when it reached the target temperature of 205, I got this...
Error: heating fault on heater 1, temperature rising much more slowly than the expected 0.0°C/sec
Interesting. It was rising slower that not rising at all?
I am puzzled by that too. It's on my list to investigate.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15c September 14, 2016 04:00AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 301 |
I've seen that error at 0.1c - it occurred within a few seconds on the heated bed being turned on. Perhaps there needs to be a buffer between turning on and monitoring starting?
Error: heating fault on heater 0, temperature rising much more slowly than the expected 0.1°C/sec
DC42 Kossel 330mm x 2meters
My Thingiverse Creations
Error: heating fault on heater 0, temperature rising much more slowly than the expected 0.1°C/sec
Quote
dc42
Quote
ElmoC
Upgraded to 1.15c earlier and tuned my hotend and heated bed. Ran a print and let everything cool down. Turned the hotend back on to change filament and when it reached the target temperature of 205, I got this...
Error: heating fault on heater 1, temperature rising much more slowly than the expected 0.0°C/sec
Interesting. It was rising slower that not rising at all?
I am puzzled by that too. It's on my list to investigate.
DC42 Kossel 330mm x 2meters
My Thingiverse Creations
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15c September 14, 2016 04:00AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 301 |
Thats good to know - thanks.
DC42 Kossel 330mm x 2meters
My Thingiverse Creations
Quote
dc42
Quote
DADIY
Hmm I'm not sure PID/PWM control with an SSR is such a good idea.
PWM frequency for the bed and chamber heaters is 10Hz, for compatibility with SSRs.
DC42 Kossel 330mm x 2meters
My Thingiverse Creations
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15c September 14, 2016 12:33PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
Quote
DADIY
I've seen that error at 0.1c - it occurred within a few seconds on the heated bed being turned on. Perhaps there needs to be a buffer between turning on and monitoring starting?
Error: heating fault on heater 0, temperature rising much more slowly than the expected 0.1°C/sec
The firmware waits for the heater dead time (as set by M307) and then some (30 seconds AFAIR) before it starts checking for rising temperature.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15c September 21, 2016 05:43AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 109 |
I also have a question about the bed heater tuning, so I will post it here, not to start a new thread.
I have a 1.4 Kw heater on my bed at the moment (400x400 mm 8mm thick Al tooling plate). I tried a few times to tune the heater with M303, limit set at 120 or even 150° C, and PWM limited to 0.5 or even 0.3.
Even with 30% PWM, the temperature was raising constantly with 0.1°C / sec , but always hit the 120° or 150°C limit and interrupted the tuning process. Should I go even lower than 30% ? I mean .. 420W for a 400x400 bed seems already on the limit there.. what could be the problem ?
Running on the latest 1.15c firmware and Duet 0.8.5.
I have a 1.4 Kw heater on my bed at the moment (400x400 mm 8mm thick Al tooling plate). I tried a few times to tune the heater with M303, limit set at 120 or even 150° C, and PWM limited to 0.5 or even 0.3.
Even with 30% PWM, the temperature was raising constantly with 0.1°C / sec , but always hit the 120° or 150°C limit and interrupted the tuning process. Should I go even lower than 30% ? I mean .. 420W for a 400x400 bed seems already on the limit there.. what could be the problem ?
Running on the latest 1.15c firmware and Duet 0.8.5.
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15c September 21, 2016 06:24AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
You have a heater with a very high gain and a long time constant. You may need to reduce the PWM as low as 0.1 to tune it. You may also need to temporarily increase the M307 dead time parameter to 60 seconds or greater to avoid a heater fault during tuning.
In the 1.16 revision of RRF I intend to change the tuning algorithm so that the P parameter is either much less critical or not needed at all.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
In the 1.16 revision of RRF I intend to change the tuning algorithm so that the P parameter is either much less critical or not needed at all.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15c September 23, 2016 04:12PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 109 |
Quote
dc42
You have a heater with a very high gain and a long time constant. You may need to reduce the PWM as low as 0.1 to tune it. You may also need to temporarily increase the M307 dead time parameter to 60 seconds or greater to avoid a heater fault during tuning.
In the 1.16 revision of RRF I intend to change the tuning algorithm so that the P parameter is either much less critical or not needed at all.
I have successfully tunned the bed with a PWM of 0.15, it took ages. I saved the settings with M307 (M307 H0 A464.1 C1545.8 D65 S0.6 B0), but I do get a fault when I heat-up from room temperature. (Error: heating fault on heater 0, temperature rising much more slowly than the expected 0.1°C/sec). If I clear the fault and turn back on the heater to desired temp (115°C) the fault does not come back. Strange thing : the D parameter that the tuning process calculated was really small for my bed/heater combo, I think it was D6. I had no chance with that. What should I increase to get rid of the temp raise fault ? It seems to me that the tuning procedure is not working quite reliably.
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Re: Heater faults with 1.15c September 24, 2016 05:37AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
I am just back from holiday, and I will be looking into issues concerning unexpected heater faults within the next few days.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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