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Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley

Posted by Kevin37 
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Kevin37
Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
November 20, 2017 01:06PM
I switched to Duet wifi from Ramps and have been having a few issues, right after I fix one another pops up! The issue I have encountered now is the extruder runs great for about a min. then starts to skip. I posted a video on youtube so you can see what I meen. I have tried bringing the current up and down and get the same result and now matter what I try I can't seem to figure it out. The printer runs great, the only thing I can get is the extruder to work right. Here is the link to the video and I will post my config when I get home.

(https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XtVu2g4AdDs)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2017 01:07PM by Kevin37.
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deckingman
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
November 20, 2017 02:04PM
The YouTube link doesn't work but the usual cause of extruder skipping is that it's being asked to work too hard, and the usual cause of that is a blocked or partially blocked hot end or it's not getting hot enough. Did you fix that heater problem BTW?

Try heating the hot end to print temperature, then send M84 to disable the extruder motor, then see if you can extrude by hand. If you can't, or if it's very hard to do, then it's a blockage or something amiss with the filament path through the extruder.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2017 02:05PM by deckingman.
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dc42
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
November 20, 2017 05:56PM
If it extrudes for a minute after reaching hot end temperature and then gives up, the most likely cause is the hot end fan not running, or not cooling the hot end heatsink sufficiently.


Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Kevin37
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
November 20, 2017 11:33PM
The skipping happens even when there is no filament going through it. Yes I fixed the heating issue but this is a very werid issue Iv tried diferent steppers all with out runing filament and all exhibit the same issue. They run goos for a minuite or so then slowly start skipping then dont turn at all just skip. Here is the link it should work now. As you will see in the video the filament isn't in the bowden tube, the filament is just passing through the extruder not the hotend.

[m.youtube.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2017 11:36PM by Kevin37.
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number40fan
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
November 21, 2017 04:42AM
What would happen if it wasn't attached to the frame?

If you aren't using it, switch it over to E1 and see what happens.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2017 04:43AM by number40fan.
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dc42
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
November 21, 2017 04:52AM
I agree, try connecting it to E1 in case the E0 driver isn't working properly.

Which firmware version are you using?


Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Kevin37
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
November 21, 2017 02:33PM
Im using 1.18.1 because I couldent get the latest firmware to stay connected I kept getting ajax connection errors. I will try switching to E1 and see what happens, I will let you know.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2017 06:42PM by Kevin37.
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Kevin37
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
November 21, 2017 05:10PM
Im not sure how to switch to E1 in the config, do I have to switch the heater and thermistor to? Here is my newest config

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2017 05:18PM by Kevin37.
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Attachments:
open | download - config.g (4.2 KB)
Kevin37
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
November 21, 2017 07:56PM
Never mind on the last post I figured out how to switch them in the config but, I received the same issue which leads me to believe that it has to do with my config maybe? Im not sure I keep taking breathers so I don't break my printer! Lol angry smiley I hope that it is an easy fix. If one of you find something wrong with my config would you please point it out? I ran a few dry prints with the extruder unplugged and I am completely satisfied with the way the printer runs, smooth,fast and, quiet. Thanks again for all the help

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2017 08:00PM by Kevin37.
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number40fan
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
November 22, 2017 11:29AM
Did you try removing it from the frame?
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Kevin37
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
November 22, 2017 12:10PM
Yes I did and now its working I used some extra aluminum to mill a mount. I'm assuming the way I had it mounted was putting to much pressure on the center of the motor. Im going to put it together ang switch all the wires back and do a test print later. I will report back later today or tomorrow to let you all know how it goes.

One good thing came out of all this, I was forces to do perfect cable managment and my printer looks amazing now! Thank you all for your help and I can't wait to see how my prints xom out!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2017 04:59PM by Kevin37.
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dc42
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
November 22, 2017 02:32PM
As you have already tried using a different driver channel, it's unlikely to be due to a failed driver. So it's probably caused by either the stepper motor jamming (which happens to stepper motors sometimes), or a bad connection in the cable. I suggest you check that the stepper motor shaft moves freely when the stepper motor is not powered, and check or re-make the crimp connections at the end of the cable.


Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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number40fan
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
November 22, 2017 08:19PM
Quote
Kevin37
Yes I did and now its working I used some extra aluminum to mill a mount. I'm assuming the way I had it mounted was putting to much pressure on the center of the motor. Im going to put it together ang switch all the wires back and do a test print later. I will report back later today or tomorrow to let you all know how it goes.

One good thing came out of all this, I was forces to do perfect cable managment and my printer looks amazing now! Thank you all for your help and I can't wait to see how my prints xom out!

That plumbers tape (or what I think is plumbers tape) looked a little tight around there. Hopefully your further tests will confirm that was the issue.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2017 08:20PM by number40fan.
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Kevin37
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
November 22, 2017 10:43PM
At first when I took the stepper of the frame it still did the same thing, then I lowered the current back to 800 and it worked fine. I made a new mount and it was working flawless. Until I did my test print! Then it started again, I will proceed to checking the connector and the motor shaft and we will see what I come up with. I wil wait until Friday due to the holiday. I may just buy a high torque motor to replace it, all the others are and they seem to run fine.Thank you again for all the help and have a happy thanksgiving.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2017 12:24AM by Kevin37.
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JustSumGuy
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
November 23, 2017 12:11PM
Quote
Kevin37
At first when I took the stepper of the frame it still did the same thing, then I lowered the current back to 800 and it worked fine. I made a new mount and it was working flawless. Until I did my test print! Then it started again, I will proceed to checking the connector and the motor shaft and we will see what I come up with. I wil wait until Friday due to the holiday. I may just buy a high torque motor to replace it, all the others are and they seem to run fine.Thank you again for all the help and have a happy thanksgiving.


I had a similar issue and it turned out to be the previous owner of the printer had extended the lead from the motor by splicing. Just twisted each of the four wires together and wrapped each in tape....

I soldered and heat shrink-ed that connection and that solved it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2017 12:12PM by JustSumGuy.
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dc42
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
November 23, 2017 12:38PM
I just looked at your video again. Looks like you have clamped the body of the motor to an extrusion at the side of the motor. That's not a good idea. Unless the screws that hold the motor together are very tight, the body of the motor will move relative to the front and back, and the rotor may bind on the stator. I suggest you remove the filament and the lever arm, disconnect the motor, and then check whether the shaft turns freely.


Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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JustSumGuy
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
November 23, 2017 01:41PM
Quote
dc42
I just looked at your video again. Looks like you have clamped the body of the motor to an extrusion at the side of the motor. That's not a good idea. Unless the screws that hold the motor together are very tight, the body of the motor will move relative to the front and back, and the rotor may bind on the stator. I suggest you remove the filament and the lever arm, disconnect the motor, and then check whether the shaft turns freely.

That binding up may also happen after the motor warms up a bit...
That might explain why its ok for a few min and then goes loopy...
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Kevin37
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
November 23, 2017 02:02PM
Quote
dc42
I just looked at your video again. Looks like you have clamped the body of the motor to an extrusion at the side of the motor. That's not a good idea. Unless the screws that hold the motor together are very tight, the body of the motor will move relative to the front and back, and the rotor may bind on the stator. I suggest you remove the filament and the lever arm, disconnect the motor, and then check whether the shaft turns freely.

I did remove the plumbers tape and milled an aluminum mount, I think that justsomeguy is right, that it binds up after it warms up. I ordered a high torque stepper that should be here tomorrow and that with the new mount I made should fix it. I used the plumbers tape just to get the motor on for testing and just never got around to making a mount. I ran it like that for a little over a year and never had a issue, I guess that being lazy is just now catching up with me!

I also have the wires spliced and twisted too because I had planed to upgrade the extruder stepper, I will solder them and see if it fixes it. Which would be good seeing im about to build a smaller version of this printer in the near future and I could use the extra stepper.
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Kevin37
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
December 02, 2017 01:38AM
I have been packing to move and haven't had the time to mess with the printer, but I did get the new stepper this is the one I got

(https://www.amazon.com/Torque-Bipolar-Stepper-Motor-Extruder/dp/B00PNEQUZ2/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&ref_=yo_ii_img)

The thing is that it is still doing it with the new stepper? I am at my wits end and have no clue as to what I can do to get it to not skip. It does fine for the first two times I hit the extrude button and then slowly starts to skip after the third until it doesn't move at all just makes a grinding noise. I have attached a copy of my current config and the new stepper wiring diagram, but im at a loss and have no clue what else to do. If any of you can see anything out of place please let me know. I have checked all connections and all the wiring and im still comming up short.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2017 02:13AM by Kevin37.
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Attachments:
open | download - config.g (4.4 KB)
open | download - 20171202_011142.jpg (340.3 KB)
dc42
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
December 02, 2017 04:06AM
Are you using the same cable with the new motor, or did it come with wires already attached? The problem has to be in the motor (which you have replaced), the driver (but you have tried the other driver output), or the cable and connector.


Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Kevin37
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
December 02, 2017 11:43AM
Quote
dc42
Are you using the same cable with the new motor, or did it come with wires already attached? The problem has to be in the motor (which you have replaced), the driver (but you have tried the other driver output), or the cable and connector.

It came with wires and I crimped and made a new connector, but it was not long enough so I used the same wire to extend it. I soldered a male connector for it to plug into and a new crimped female connector to plug into the board. I am going to plug the motor without the extention into the board if that fixes my issue I will use another extention. The problem may be in the extention I hope!
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Kevin37
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
December 03, 2017 11:37PM
So I hooked it up direct without an extention and still the same. Im thinking that it has to do with the config, if not its a faulty driver, which is weird seeing that both extruder ports are having the same symptoms. This also points me to the config. I am not sure how to use the config generator and have been using one from thingivers for the d-bot

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2017 01:04AM by Kevin37.
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dc42
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
December 04, 2017 03:12AM
If you are concerned about the drivers, you could use M584 to swap the X motor output with the extruder.


Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Kevin37
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
December 04, 2017 07:56AM
Quote
dc42
If you are concerned about the drivers, you could use M584 to swap the X motor output with the extruder.

Now does the M584 automaticly switch everything over and all I have to do is switch the stepper plugs?
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dc42
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
December 04, 2017 11:21AM
You need to define all the driver assignments using M584, see [duet3d.com]. Note, M584 does not change the endstop connector assignment, so you should leave the endstop wiring alone.


Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Kevin37
Re: Extruder skipping steps?confused smiley
December 12, 2017 10:23AM
Quote
dc42
You need to define all the driver assignments using M584, see [duet3d.com]. Note, M584 does not change the endstop connector assignment, so you should leave the endstop wiring alone.[/quot]

Thank you for the help, I have not been able to mess with my printer due to my recent spinal surgery. I will give this a go when I am able to. I am also moving from Texas to Tennessee on the second of Jan. So I am on hold as far as the 3d printing.

I really appreciate all the help and will continue when I can and and post the results in a month or so. Thanks again
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