BIGTREETECH SKR-PRO-V1.2

This is my first time publishing here in this forum. I hope This is the right place.

I do own a recently purchased Creality Ender 5 Plus printer and I have purchased to upgrade it as soon as I have some basic knowledge of printing with the configuration it was delived.

Having started to play with Trinamic controllers for step motors a bit over 7 years ago I do have some experience with Trinamic controllers and I have used their IDE and 2 boards I got as present from them. It was the stepRocker und it was a board called motionCookie, a board that was never released, both to control stepper motors. In view of my old experiences with Trinamic I did purchase the BIGTREETECH-SKR-PRO-V1.2 and SilentStepSticks with the TMC5160hv that allows to be operated at voltages and and below 50 VDC. I did purchase the SilentStepSticks 5160hv from Watterott, the company that partners with Trinamic to design and produce SilentStepSticks.

My question to you:

Has any one of you used the BIGTREETECH-SKR-PRO-V1.2 board?
Has any one of you a suggestion where I can find out if the board tolerates 48 VDC on its Motor Power Inputs or can say something about it?
Has any one of you worked feeding the TMC5160hv with 48 VDC?

I have purchased a 600 W Meanwell power supply to be the power source for the 5160hv..

Best regards
Hellmut

Hi Hellmut,

I'm assuming, you're from Germany?

Then maybe the German "Elektrik&Elektronik"-forum could be a good place for your question too: [reprap.org]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2020 01:50PM by VDX.

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

I am an idealist! I still hope to find 3D printing aficionados that know what I am writing about. Additionally, how should one in an electronics forum know about my controller board and my key objective does not have to find out what happens to my board if I connect the 48VDC to the "Motor Power" connections. If worse comes to worst that is what I will have to do, connect the 48VDC and find out if that kills my board.

... look first on the voltage specs of all the capacitors -- you'll need at least 60 Volts ...

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Yes, the datasheet from Trinamic for the TMC5160hv says 60VDC!

... then all the semiconductors, if they'll survive spikes with more than 50 Volts ... and last the max. current per trace -- had some drivers with specs for up to 70 Volts, where the limit of the traces were below the drawn wattage/current at 50 Volts under "normal working conditions"

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

@Viktor: My thinking is that there should be no physical connection to other parts of the board circuitry. The schematic should only have a trace to the Vm pins where the SilenteStepStick is plugged in. There should be no reason for such a connection to other parts of the circuit of the board.

My health problems make the advance of my projects very slow. But once I have experience in using the Ender 5 Plus and made certain parts I need for other parts of my workshop y plan to just do the try-and-error and connect the 48VDC. My additionally purchased SilenStepSticks 5160hv will be plugged in and I will see what happens.
Hellmut

... good luck!

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Hello Hellmuth,

i can tell you what will happen, if you power 48V to SKR.. You will get an delayed fireworks and some magic smoke ! . Please don´t do this, your SKR is blameless !

Of course, it is possible to supply your 5160HV with 48V. There is an really good manual for this on 3DDC, but i fear, this will require advanced skills

He doesnt like to be on 3DDC as we adviced him the same: Skip that nonsense.

I am attacked pretty strongly at forums dedicated to 3D Printing because of the benefits I mentioned that a 48 VDC power supply for the SilentStepSticks TMC5160hv. Just to feed information from the Trinamic website, the company that develops driver ICs used in many 3D printers and Watterott that works together with Trinamic to develop the SilentStepSticks and regarding my choice the SilentStepStick TMC5160hv:

Begin:

Why do I need to use a stepper motor supply voltage higher than the rated phase voltage?


Stepper motors have a rated phase voltage and rated phase current. A typical stepper motor might have a rated voltage of 2.5 Volts and a maximum current of 2.8 Amps, for example. This basically means if you hook it up to 2.5 Volts it will draw 2.8 Amps. If you try to run it at a higher voltage it will draw more current and get excessively hot.


But stepper motors are usually not hooked up straight to a voltage source. Instead, a stepper driver circuit is used that regulates the current.


If you hook it up to 24V, for example, the motor would try to draw more current, but the stepper motor driver will not allow that to happen. That's because driver circuit uses its high frequency PWM and comparator algorithm to limit the average current to the desired maximum value. This is typically configurable in the one way or the other.


Stepper motors are designed to work this way and it is safe to run the motors at up to 20 times the rated voltage. You will actually get much better performance (max speed and dynamic behavior) by running at a higher voltage than the rated voltage.

End

You can access the webpage from Trinamic here!

[www.trinamic.com]#

You will find this text going to FAQ/Motors

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2021 11:42AM by Hellmut1956.

Funny! All those that attacked me and that is what I feel stopped responding after I proved what I wrote referring to an entry at the website of Trinamics. It is easy to be arrogant and aggressive, but it is much more difficult to face to have been wrong.

I will accept that from my experiments I did take a wrong interpretation.

Correct is, that the torque a stepper can deliver is related to the amount of current that flows through the motor. I did my experiments operating a stepper motor without a load. So I did think that by applying a much higher voltage to s stepper the torque would be related to the power that results from multiplying current with voltage. That is wrong. What happens is that the addition of the applied voltage and adding the induced voltage that has an inverse polarity to the applied voltage. The induced voltage increases the higher the stepping frequency is. So as long as the resulting voltage is bigger than the nominal value, the PWM of the Trinamic driver will limit the current to its nominal value and so enable the stepper to run faster. Of course, side effects within the stepper, influence the resulting value as shown in the graphic from Trinamic.

... higher voltages only helps with acceleration - the torque and driving "smoothness" is per design, so different for different drivers/vendors ...

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Dear VDX, I do appreciate your answer. Too many that were attacking me personally are silent since I wrote the response citing an entry in the FAQ section of Trinamic, now part of Maxxim. If I do understand what you wrote I would tend to consider your answer as being wrong or at least I was unable to understand it.

The higher voltage applied to a stepper motor and the current flow limited to its nominal value by using PWM benefits the operation of a stepper motor in 2 major ways:

1. The higher the step frequency, the higher the absolute value of the induced voltage that has always the inverse polarity to the applied voltage. Using a higher voltage means that the effective voltage will be dropping due to the step frequency to the nominal voltage as the induced voltage increases. The result is that you can have higher step frequencies before the available torque is affected.

2. The Trinamic stepper drivers and it applies to those SilentStepSticks that use Trinamic stepper motor drivers to detect the torque load against which the stepper motor is working. So, if peak torque requirements of a stepper motor are higher than the holding torque of a stepper motor the Trinamic stepper motor drivers do have the ability, assuming a voltage higher than the nominal voltage is applied to the stepper motor to modify the duty cycle of the PWM to allow for a short period of time to have a current flowing to the stepper motor increase to up to 120% and so for this limited time to offer a torque that is 120% of the holding torque value.

To see this confirmed you can go to the website of Trinamic and read the features the Trinamic stepper motor drivers offer.

Best regards
Hellmut

This should help: SKR Pro 1.2 Schematic
Looks like the motor supply terminals connect directly to a pin on the stepsticks with just a fuse in between, so 48V may be possible...
I was actually looking into this previously because stall detection uses back EMF to detect when a stall occurs but is less reliable at higher speeds since EMF at those speeds approaches the EMF generated by a stall (false positives during normal operation), so upping the voltage would be necessary to increase the reliability of stall detection.

Now the actual supply for the board is component limited to 28.5V according to the schematic so you'll just need a separate supply, which could be 12V or 24V depending on your preferred flavor of components. This is significant for my current plan, which is to use a Meanwell DR-UPS40 module and a couple SLA batteries to have a built-in UPS for around $80 (instead of buying the normal computer UPS for around twice that cost). I'll have to turn up the supply to 27.6V so that the SLA batteries can charge, and make sure all the components down the line can tolerate 27.6V, and probably tune thermistors and heater cartridges differently, but I think its possible

Finally, one that knows what he writes! Reading the schematic I too had the impression I should be able to feed the SilentStepSticksZTMC5160HV, Watterott informed me that they are available again. So I would be using a Meanwell 500W 24 VDC to power the board and an additional Meanwell 600W 48 VDC power supply for the stepper motor drivers.

As of now, I am still working to organize my workshop for the purposes I do have. I am placing the 3D printer on a table of its own where I put special effort to prevent vibrations. The structure of the cabinet which I am making as a desk for my 3D printer is screwed to a shelf rack, I am further placing concrete slap and a foam plate that is generally used to reduce the noise i.e. by the vibrations of a washing machine. This way the concrete slab has a heavy mass that together with the foam plate swallows vibrations that the printer might generate.

In my workshop, here I have to place my 3D printer as my wife has forbidden me to expand into further rooms in our house. the air is heavily polluted by dust and machines like a circular table saw and a table router generate a lot of dust. As printing might take place over longer periods of time I do want that both are not interfering with one another. I am building to enclosures around my printer. One that is based on using acrylic plates with the cubic frame structure of my Ender 5 Plus and a second around it, where I use special regenerable material to take the humidity out of the air before it gets to the inner cabin. The outer cabins have air blown into it through to filters in series, one G4 type for larger particles and one using pocket filters that are able to filter particles down to 1 µm.

As a friend of my son got serious problems with his lungs as fine particles got accumulating themselves in his lungs, I decided to filter the air of the whole workshop in a similar fashion as described for the cabin. In both cases, I am using radial ventilators as they create the pressure required to force the air through the filters. Might be I can relax the filtering at my 3D printer outer cabin as the large filter for the whole workshop might do the job. just to give you an impression of what I am talking about. The large radial ventilator can move 1200 m^3 per hour. Fortunately, it comes with a regulation circuit to control the speed with which air is moved.