Project description and Scheduling

Here the first draft of the "Ideas-Collection" with some of the more interesting concepts roughly summarized:

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Thoughts on the project "Floating islands in the garbage continents".

Status: - in all oceans of the world "garbage whirlpools" have formed, in which huge quantities of floating garbage accumulate due to the ocean currents.
The largest are located in the Pacific - here there are two "garbage vortices", one in the direction of Australia, one in the direction of South America.
The "size" of the largest would roughly correspond to the extent of Central Europe, i.e. over 1000 kilometres in diameter!
The current amount of waste in the oceans is estimated at about 150 million tons, but this could still be far understated ...


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Collection of ideas from other projects:
- collecting floating garbage on the surface, creating it on land and separating it and recycling it (project "The Ocen Clean-up" does this as a test)
Criticism: only floating garbage on the surface, ways to and from the country take very long

- Stop waste discharge from rivers into the seas - is already being tackled by some countries, most still superior or do nothing at all

- Fishing boats should not dump the "garbage by-catch" in the nets back into the sea, but collect it separately and hand it in for a "deposit" in the harbours - some of them already go out only for the "garbage" ...

- Various project to clean up the sea coasts ...

- Dutch build floating platforms for houses and greenhouses instead of building higher dams to protect the coastal areas from rising sea levels -- works only in river mouths and in protected coastal areas, not on the open sea (storm and too high waves)

- Project "Seasteading" wants to build "floating cities" in harbours and "quiet" coastal areas - "ring walls" as protection against waves, only conditionally "seaworthy" -- initially only planned as "sea domiciles" for rich and super-rich ...


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Difference of the project "Floating islands in the garbage continents"
- first of all, large ships (discarded container ships and freighters, which are currently available at the "scrap price" because commercial shipping has collapsed) are to be used as "bases" with plants and machinery for plastic recycling and "charring", as well as equipment and facilities for large-scale construction with sufficiently large crews for a long-term/"permanent" stay to the "garbage continents", and on site (without long arrival/departure times) begin to build large/thick floating structures.

- From these large/thick (several tens to a hundred meters in size, several tens of meters in thickness/height) elements, even larger "rafts" are then to be assembled, which, due to their size/mass and stability, can themselves withstand storms and waves up to a height of more than 30m, and which, in combination, are also to serve as "breakwaters" for structures built further inside.

- these "base" elements should not be built like ships with walls and cavities, but rather as massive bodies with many small cavities for buoyancy - it is ideal if they are so heavy and have so much buoyancy that they float e.g. at a size of 100x100 meters and 50 meters thickness half (or more) in the water and half (or less) above it - on top of this more "sensitive" structures such as houses can be built.

- as building material all possible stable solid bodies are suitable, which in turn do not give off any plastic when crushed over time (sun, waves, collisions, ...) - e.g. stones, sand, (sand). Stones, sand, (coral) lime, plant/tang fibre, glass fibre, metal wires and rods (for connection/tensioning), glass hollow spheres (for buoyancy), solid material extracted from the plastic waste and chemically converted (inert) such as coal ...
Plant resins - e.g. lignin, which is currently a waste product in paper manufacturing and could later also be obtained from trees/plants and tan/seagrass planted on/around the islands - are suitable as binders to combine this into a stable, concrete-like mass (see e.g. polymer concrete for highly stable industrial plants, which is made up of sand, gravel and cast resin/polymer).

- over time, marine biotopes (coral reefs, etc.) will also form around the islands, or should also be created themselves (e.g. as a raw material source for coral limestone or fish for food supply).

- Energy production on site by sun, wind, waves, current, temperature differences, evaporation, ...

- with sufficient energy more than enough drinking water can be obtained from the sea water - but also salt and from the salt practically all known materials/chemicals of the chemical elements dissolved in the sea water, which can be extracted and separated e.g. by chemical/galvanic processes ...

- on these first "rafts" even more stable material can be "built up" over time in order to extend them to "real" floating islands with enough mass/carrying capacity and size for a permanent planting with trees and plants (also for food supply).
Over time, this could also allow "floating continents" with a diverse structure with coast/inside areas and also large inland freshwater lakes or saltwater inland seas (down to the ocean open or filtered).

- for the garbage drifting in the sea, below the surface (or already sunk on the ground), methods for collecting have to be developed - in the beginning with ships/rafts as "supply bases" an armada of smaller (autonomous) boats, drones and submarines has to be built, from which even smaller submarine threats launch and expose "micro-drones" near underwater garbage whose only task is to "cling" to the garbage and inflate "swim bladders" with which the garbage drifts to the surface and can be conventionally collected there...


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Political implications:
- Artificial islands" outside the 200-kilometer EEZ areas around the coastlines are located in a "lawless" space where only maritime and international law still applies - so completely independent rules and legal structures or even "nationalities" can emerge on them!

- This would also be an opportunity to offer alternative housing to the currently "sinking" micro-nations that inhabit small islands that will be flooded by rising sea levels within the next decades -- currently several of these micro-nations have already started negotiations with other countries to accommodate their populations there.

- because of this "lawless" environment one has to think about the protection of the islands against e.g. pirates or attacks of other nations - in the beginning this would be done with mercenaries/protection troops and contracts with countries on the nearer mainland or neighbouring "islands" - later this should be regulated by the own population in the form of volunteers or also "conscription" ...


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Ideas for implementation and for the "start", step-by-step expansion:
- Make idea known, win supporters, donations and active members
- Assemble equipment - ships, life support/supply/energy, plastics processing/recycling/carbonisation, building materials and equipment, ...
- Start projects" with smaller ships near the coast over a few weeks/months as pre-exercise and "show-case" for the interested parties and media
- Long-term projects" with volunteers over several months/years with larger ships and construction teams/facilities directly in the "garbage maelstrom".
- Building ever larger "rafts" to demonstrate seaworthiness and long-term stability and to increase the processing capacity for the collected waste.
- Creation of the first "self-sufficient" raft/island structures with production of energy, food and building materials on site
- ...

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

... a few more thoughts on the faster establishment and expansion of the "mega-structures" and on sustainability:

- instead of a massive basic body made of already "converted" (or almost completely reduced to coal) collected garbage, only a massive "shell" with a few meters thickness and inside with many cavities and access ways should be built.

- These cavities are then only filled with the material collected from the sea (preferably already sorted) - this is actually an enormously valuable raw material when we have developed "large-volume molecular technologies" with which the plastic and the other components of the "garbage" can be broken down directly into the basic molecules and processed.

- In order to get to the cavities quickly and efficiently, sloping and spiral ramp tunnels with sufficient width/height for vehicles should run through the island base - so material can be moved from and to the respective destinations at any time.

This would allow large floating bodies to be built up relatively quickly, which would then be gradually built up to their full size/thickness with the material collected and only partially "converted" for the building substance.

I imagine that the "bodies" of the floating islands consist of a kind of "amber" with sand, coal and supporting fibres in thicknesses of a few to several tens of meters and many isolated (partly completely "sealed", partly accessible) hollow lumen inside - similar to our "small" 3D-printed parts with a "shell" and a hollow honeycomb filling.

On the one hand this is enormously stable, but decays over time, e.g. in collisions or crumbling due to aging by sun and waves, but only into the relatively harmless particles from which the "shell" was built ...

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

... some more ideas, how the material can be built up to "floating islands":

Another consideration would be to build the whole thing not only in the form of "flat mega-rafts", but in a kind of "inverted layer cake" -- e.g. at first a practically massive floating platform ... then on top of it the next "floor" at the circumference larger than the level below ... u.s.w., u.s.f. ...

This could be used to build parts of any size/depth, which are still relatively flat above water (or conical hollows towards the inside or the bottom, e.g. as basins for a freshwater lake), but which gradually or simply become deeper and deeper under water as a shallow cone, until they may even touch down on the seabed or an elevation on the seabed.

The pressure with increasing depth (+1bar each per 10m depth!) would also compress the shell material with inner cavities (which additionally stabilizes and strengthens it), which has to be considered for the "wall thicknesses" ... or from a certain depth on massively fill the outer hollows to increase the strength/stability of the substructure ...

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

... transscription from German forum:
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... to activate the topic here again a little bit, and also to show that the ideas/concepts are not necessarily only meaningful "beyond the horizon" ...

With building materials made of plastic (and other) garbage, buildings or infrastructure can also be built here, on land/in the cities ... something like this is often done for sidewalk slabs or borders ... why not think and build "bigger"?

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Another point - more and more reports focus on upcoming "drinking water shortages after drought summers" -- in some countries, like Spain, this is already so dramatic that people like the lunatics make (illegal) well drillings down to over 100m depth to get (if at all) to the groundwater

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I have always been bothered by the fact that I pay once for tap water ... and then again for the sewage

There are already some ideas with rain water cisterns or artificial ponds for water-recycling ... but still much too little.

There were once a few projects for small "personal" evaporation water collectors, but not active anymore.

One concept that I personally like is a transparent cone with a curved edge/reservoir at the bottom, which is placed on the water surface by a puddle or pond and collects some 10 to 100ml of distilled/clean water over a few hours by condensation and dripping of the evaporating and rising water vapour in the lower reservoir of the cone -- this also works on brackish water, so that "dirty water" could be recycled locally and possibly reused immediately.

To make clean drinking water out of this kind of distilled water, just add some salt and stir!

In order to do this effectively and on a larger scale, this "cone" should be larger than the size of a soccer ball (as in the original project), rather the size of a garden house or even larger, and spiral "channels" running from top to bottom should discharge the condensing water directly into the collection tank.

In principle, you could put something like this into the cooling towers of power plants or industrial plants -- what rises into the sky is clean distilled water!!

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Some floating city design ideas at the end of this video [www.youtube.com]

... what's the common definition of "clever people"? -- they think (and act) similarly

I try to contact him ...

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

... out of curiosity, I've ordered the "Jetson Nano KI Developer Kit" - and will see, if I can find the time to work my way into it so that/if I can use it as a basis for "bot swarms" or to control and interact with several bots (drones, boats, submarines, ...):




It should be powerful enough to do real-time 3D simulation and display of bot swarms in a VR/AR representation of the environment using transmitted position data

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

... I've started a German Facebook-group with the project description to see, if/when the interest gain momentum.

Someone (or enough) people interested, so it's worth to start an English group too?

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

... like I had written before -- the actual garbage collecting projects like Ocean Cleanup cannot master the garbage problem and/or are not enough with the main focus only on the garbage floating at the surface and recycling on the mainland

[www.n-tv.de]


My ideas for the "Generation Project" are also only a beginning, which must first develop before the effectiveness becomes even perceptible.

But in the long run it should be much more effective and easier (cheaper) to implement than e.g. the "Mars colonization" approach ...

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Hello there Viktor

Don't know if posting is disabled on this thread, I will make a post now to see. No other comments have been made.

Let me start in a rambling fashion- I found your 4 page thread on the small environmental board first, then looked to find your most recent post on this topic. Very glad that you are still searching for and following information regarding this project after so many years.

I too have been of a similar mind, specifically since 2011, when I set off into the coalescing journey that this goal has become. Since then I have bought my 30ft sailboat, worked at west marine (usa) for 4 years, then trained to become a hull cleaning diver. Everything I strive for is an attempt to learn more about the ocean, and the vessels that have good characteristics.

As far as the general details of a very long and complicated project, I'm sure we're both a bit burdened by the mass of information and pieces that fit together in this. Indeed, the plastic can only be recovered in a timely manner if the long route of transportation to land is eliminated. The only other possible solution short of dispersed nanobots is a fleet of drones, utilising the hdpe collected to make ever more drones. Of course mustn't forget the massive facilities required to house, feed, protect, recycle.

I have no intention of bothering your project if you don't want company. I feel that the best thing that could happen to either of us is that a rich corporation went through with the scheme even at the expense of individuality. At least the cleanup would happen. It's unlikely. probably have to struggle to make anything happen. I have tried to interest programmers, makers, friends in my ideas, almost without fail there is a disconnect, due to the general lack of vision I think. Unless it ends in a banter of rambling about general environmental issues.

If you would like to talk further I could also upload drawings from my books. Draft doodles and listed pathways to success. I have a 10×20 storage unit full of pieces for this project... feel free to email me ... ***snipp*** ... if that is better.

Clay

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2020 03:28PM by VDX.

Hi Clay,

many thanks for the (indirect) thumbs-up! -- I know, this summary/projection is somehow "futuristic", so maybe only a "starting point" and ideas collection.

What could be achieved now with not too much effort, is the idea of a "deep net" - where three ships, standing near to each other, release a big net to some kilometers below surface, then separate and so "expand" the net to some hundreds meters diameter and then slowly start to catch it up.

But, this "project" ist meant to collect evenmore ideas and interest over the next years to decades ... so there is some hope to get it running with some more time to develop/brew

I'll edit your post to remove the email, as it's not so a good idea to post it publicly ...

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Viktor

Thanks for removing my email address, I mostly use it for this project, I also have an aquatic.causeway for instagram, reddit, and google blogs, I might have more but they are all sitting gathering dust. I figure there is no point to public view unless something concrete is happening. even then I am hesitant due to nosey people, and the thought that "somebody else is now taking care of this, its ok to make huge pollution".

which moves to my next talking point, the material for a hull. to be clear I am trying to address one of two main modes a hull would go through.

the first important mode would be a hull made for transport, high-speed is set aside to allow for a baseline of safety and durability. I have as an opinion of these metals- stainless, special aluminum, coated steel, in that order of desirability: hardness and longevity being the desired traits. concrete would be appropriate for a large displacement vessel also. the best example of survivability in a boat that I can find, allowing for a modicum of speed, is the XSV20 "thunder child 2".
this design would excel in most heavy conditions. I take into consideration the hull shape and cabin superstructure as important shapes as far as buoyancy vs durability.

The Boat
[www.google.com]

the second important mode for a hull would be a type of "home base" structure, able to withstand any partial or full submersion, physical attack of waves and wind, debris including other ships or rock, including up to beachings.
the best hull for these requirements in my opinion is a SPHERE shaped structure- all forces can be distributed along the curvature of the material of the hull. even a piercing shaped debris would still apply force in a somewhat distributed fashion. except for the point of high pressure. no buckling wanted.

the second best shape in my opinion is a triangular-based pyramid, as opposed to a pyramid with four sides. either shape would be more susceptible to piercing on its flatter surfaces, and would probably induce more drag as it moves.

as far as a super material for the "arcology" goes, I am very mentally invested in the electrolysis process used in the artificial reefs around the world. they use 2.3 volts DC to induce mineral crystallization along rebar [conductive metal] which can form very durable and thick layers of a material similar to fly-ash concrete. this method also fills in any damage as the voltage goes back up as saltwater can reach closer to the bare metal again.

The Result
[images.squarespace-cdn.com]

I have done several detailed tests involving the electrolysis process in that method, the hands on results are good to establish a more secure premise for any step forwards. I will spare you a long detail of points unless asked.

So I would appreciate any feedback, critical thinking, random thoughts that show up, these ideas seem pretty sound after much long mulling and research. Hull design and shape, materials involved are where I am making the biggest efforts at the moment before I proceed with heating and twisting, shaping my 2000lbs rebar into any medium scale prototype. I have the Floatation, as a secondary point, durable 1 gallon bottles and HDPE 30 gallon barrels as modular inserts when the metal frame has sufficient mineral buildup- most aspects are accounted for.

I am extremely eager to proceed, I feel that for the sake of species diversity, and bio cycle health, I should proceed in a gradual ramp up at a good rate of speed.

As you may know, it is found that the plastic molecules posses a negative ionic charge, which allows them to pass through the blood-brain barrier, contaminating the bodies, becoming imbedded in any cellular structure through an ionic bonding. in time nature may adapt a process more able to survive this, but as currently cancerous growths and toxic overload are still a real problem for biological organisms, its likely that the result of dispersed contamination is a massacre, to be blunt.

I am very strong on safety. I will abandon an established train of logic if a reasoning, superior idea presents itself. Also don't want to spend time on the wrong designs.

I look forward to anything you have to say, hope all is well.

Clay

Hi Clay,

the idea for my "bases" is pointing towards "mega-structures" with square sizes of some kilometers, so more into something like "mega-rafts" than ships ... so the hull structure and material should be selected by available sources mainly (for the sheer volume) -- and here some ten meters thick (or more) bases and "hulls" made from sand/lignin-polymer-conrete will beat any metallic structure.

For smaller boats and "mobile" rafts (meant as temporal bases for collecting the debris) your ideas with metal hulls sounds good ... but too, if needed more, then first should be to find/use local available materials like plant-fibers, and lignin, to form "polymer-fabrics" for complex structures, eventually armed with something built with your idea for mineral crystallization on metal bars, to make some sort of "ribs" and borders around sensitive structures.

But it seems, we have now more to focus on the corona pandemy, before there is enough free thinking again, to turn the heads for environmental issues

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2020 10:21AM by VDX.

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Hello Viktor!

I am really keen on the idea of using plant fibers, I realize you stated using the lignen as a binder, does that mean it becomes chemically processed to another form, like a polymer ingredient? Sorry if I posted in this thread in an incorrect manner, I'm getting a thought that this thread was especially for your lists? Let me know, no problem if you want to delete. Let me know if there is a better place besides Facebook? Very high data mining through them... talk to you soon, hope all is well

Clay

... no problem, as it's something related and this sub-forum needs some more vivid input

You can scope through the complete "green talk"-sub-forum - [reprap.org]

And post new ideas into the "New ideas ..." sub-sub-forum - [reprap.org]

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

... it starts to get more momentum and develop to "mainstream"

[www.n-tv.de]

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]