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A new Dual Pinch extruder is now available, the DyzeXtruder GTthumbs up What do you think?

Posted by Dyze_Design 
Hi Guys!

We are specialized in high-end 3D printer hotends and extruder. We'd like to show you our newest product: The DyzeXtruder GT
We've been working hard to get all those features to this new extruder:
  • Dual Pinch
  • 5.65:1 Gear Reduction
  • Quick Release Groove Mount
  • Latch and Latch holder for easy filament removal
  • And many more!



You can check a timelapse printed with this extruder here:
[youtu.be]

Or a feature list video here:
[youtu.be]

Or a comparison with other extruder here:
[youtu.be]

Don't hesitate if you have questions about this product, we would be very happy to help!
Thanks for your time!


DYZE DESIGN
Hotends, Extruders, Liquid Cooling and Accessories.
Re: A new Dual Pinch extruder is now available, the DyzeXtruder GTthumbs up What do you think?
August 16, 2016 03:24PM
For it being twice the price of the E3D Titan extruder with a higher gear ratio, what makes it better (if it is better)?

How does the high gear ratio deal with the requirements of say the E3D volcano hot end?

It would also be nice to see what it looks like behind the cover where you have the dual pinch setup to see that there is no possible way a flexible filament could get stuck or hung up or pushed out the wrong way.

What kind of mounting brackets are required or does it use? Are they extra or included?

Can it be purchased without a motor?

Just a few question running through my head as I look at it, but I think the biggest issue you might have is the price difference against the E3D Titan extruder. I can't say I'm at the point of buying a proper extruder just yet as I'm still exploring the other 3D printed extruder setups. That being said, I have taken a serious look at the E3D Titan extruder and the price is stopping me at the moment.
Re: A new Dual Pinch extruder is now available, the DyzeXtruder GTthumbs up What do you think?
August 17, 2016 03:29AM
it's a lot of cash, though it looks well made and constructed of some hardy materials, but it not really needed for the likes of pla giving the price of the exotic filament " cant see a huge following of carbon printing, cant recall seeing an image of the pinch wheels or a glimpse of the hobbed gear/pulley. but what stands out for a $140 extruder is the use of a $2 push fit.
not once in those three video is there a demonstration on loading filament??.
Re: A new Dual Pinch extruder is now available, the DyzeXtruder GTthumbs up What do you think?
August 17, 2016 07:27AM
A problem I have experienced before is that if the motor current is set too high, the force produced is to great that if the nozzle becomes temporarily obstructed (e.g. due to the nozzle being too close to the bed, or curl-up on an overhang), the hobbed shaft grinds the filament up, losing grip on the filament until there is manual intervention. With lower force, the motor will skip steps while the nozzle is obstructed and extrusion restarts when the obstruction is removed. However, if the gearing is high and the motor rotor inertia is high, then reducing the current to avoid excessive force may make it impossible to accelerate the motor fast enough to get a good retraction speed.

Therefore I am suspicious of highly-geared extruders used with high-inertia motors. Unfortunately, on the web site I can't find any of the information I need in order to evaluate whether this is likely to be a problem. Specifically I want:

- Detailed specifications of the stepper motor
- Nature of the pinch mechanism (hobbed shafts, rubber rollers, or something else?
- Radius of the pinch wheels or hobbed shafts
- Approximate microsteps/mm, for a given motor steps/rev and microstepping factor

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2016 07:59AM by dc42.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
It looks pretty good, and I like the mounting holes on the side of the extruder. It would be nice to see the guts.

I run a Bulldog XL with a 5:1 gearbox and have had only 1 filament jam in two years- caused by a foreign object. I keep the pinch wheel tension high so the drive gear bites deeply into the filament. It has never chewed a divot into the filament. I have attempted to print with the nozzle set too close to the bed a few times and caused the motor to slip. Recovery is instantaneous. I typically print at 40-50 mm/sec. After hours of operation the motor only gets warm.


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Hi Guys!

Thanks for your comments. I'd like to take the time to reply them all, please see my answers below!

Quote
PDBeal
For it being twice the price of the E3D Titan extruder with a higher gear ratio, what makes it better (if it is better)?
The DyzeXtruder has many great features and is designed for a maximum reliability. The Titan does a great job for a great price, but some customer require a more professional option. The price is well chosen for both products.
  • All metal, perfect for anyone with a enclosed printer. The Delrin might be able to take some heat, but the mechanical properties will decrease rapidly.
  • Fully assemble and tested, this extruder is a high-end product
  • The gears are enclosed; no dust, burrs or dirt can get between the teeth and damage the components.
  • The gears are made from high strength alloyed steel and they are heat treated for maximum lifespan.
  • The lever can be locked for a convenient filament replacement
  • All rotating parts are on bearing. Running a rotating shaft on Delrin can work in a clean environment, but with harsh environment, it will eventually grinds itself.
  • Pre-adjusted spring ensure a constant flow and one less variable to control when switching filament. The lever will always work. The Titan has a great torque output with the maximum spring tension, but the lever is then unusable because the spring is fully compressed.
  • The extruder is mounted by it's side, it has 4 mounting holes for different configuration.
  • The extruder is smaller and ergonomic.
  • The extruder feature a quick release hotend. The Titan require to disassemble the front plate to change the filament.

Quote
PDBeal
How does the high gear ratio deal with the requirements of say the E3D volcano hot end?
The extruder is able to push filament above 30mm/s while keeping the specified torque. This is equivalent to 72 mm^3/s with a 1.75mm filament and it is more than the Volcano can handle.

Quote
PDBeal
It would also be nice to see what it looks like behind the cover where you have the dual pinch setup to see that there is no possible way a flexible filament could get stuck or hung up or pushed out the wrong way.
The inside are machined from aluminum block and there is no way for the filament to escape.

Quote
PDBeal
What kind of mounting brackets are required or does it use? Are they extra or included?
Mount it easily with the side hole. Screws are supplied with the extruder.

Quote
jinx
it's a lot of cash, though it looks well made and constructed of some hardy materials, but it not really needed for the likes of pla giving the price of the exotic filament " cant see a huge following of carbon printing, cant recall seeing an image of the pinch wheels or a glimpse of the hobbed gear/pulley. but what stands out for a $140 extruder is the use of a $2 push fit.
not once in those three video is there a demonstration on loading filament??.
The hobbed gear/pulley is made from a blend of straight deep knurling and lathe operations. It minimize filament deformation and provide a clean operation without filament stuck between the gears.
We have chosen to use a replaceable push-fit because these fittings aren't made for repetitive push/pull action as with a bowden setup. Even if you get the 20$ stainless steel push fitting, it relies on the same locking washer and has the same lifespan of a cheaper push-fitting.

Quote
dc42
A problem I have experienced before is that if the motor current is set too high, the force produced is to great that if the nozzle becomes temporarily obstructed (e.g. due to the nozzle being too close to the bed, or curl-up on an overhang), the hobbed shaft grinds the filament up, losing grip on the filament until there is manual intervention. With lower force, the motor will skip steps while the nozzle is obstructed and extrusion restarts when the obstruction is removed. However, if the gearing is high and the motor rotor inertia is high, then reducing the current to avoid excessive force may make it impossible to accelerate the motor fast enough to get a good retraction speed.

Therefore I am suspicious of highly-geared extruders used with high-inertia motors. Unfortunately, on the web site I can't find any of the information I need in order to evaluate whether this is likely to be a problem. Specifically I want:

- Detailed specifications of the stepper motor
- Nature of the pinch mechanism (hobbed shafts, rubber rollers, or something else?
- Radius of the pinch wheels or hobbed shafts
- Approximate microsteps/mm, for a given motor steps/rev and microstepping factor

Good point. The 26mm motor is very small, light and has low inertia. Our current set-up operate with the basic 3000 mm/s^2 and there is no problem! The grip force and filament tension are designed to get this clicking "feature" before grinding, as we had with the previous extruder.

The motor runs at 1A, rated at 4.3V, 5mH inductance, 34 g.cm^2 inertia. It is probably one of the smallest motor available in NEMA17 size.
The pinch mechanism are made of straight knurling and lathe operations.
The pitch diameter is about 9.6mm
The extruder is configured at 645 steps / mm at 16Āµstepping

Quote
the_digital_dentist
It looks pretty good, and I like the mounting holes on the side of the extruder. It would be nice to see the guts.

I run a Bulldog XL with a 5:1 gearbox and have had only 1 filament jam in two years- caused by a foreign object. I keep the pinch wheel tension high so the drive gear bites deeply into the filament. It has never chewed a divot into the filament. I have attempted to print with the nozzle set too close to the bed a few times and caused the motor to slip. Recovery is instantaneous. I typically print at 40-50 mm/sec. After hours of operation the motor only gets warm.
I'm glad that you like the mounting! It is very easy to maintain the printer with only two screws to loosen.
The Bulldog XL is an excellent extruder. It has tons of power and it is heavy duty.
However, it is very heavy, the filament is hard to insert and it does not work with flexible filament.


DYZE DESIGN
Hotends, Extruders, Liquid Cooling and Accessories.
Re: A new Dual Pinch extruder is now available, the DyzeXtruder GTthumbs up What do you think?
August 18, 2016 05:34AM
Quote
Dyze_Design
Quote
dc42
A problem I have experienced before is that if the motor current is set too high, the force produced is to great that if the nozzle becomes temporarily obstructed (e.g. due to the nozzle being too close to the bed, or curl-up on an overhang), the hobbed shaft grinds the filament up, losing grip on the filament until there is manual intervention. With lower force, the motor will skip steps while the nozzle is obstructed and extrusion restarts when the obstruction is removed. However, if the gearing is high and the motor rotor inertia is high, then reducing the current to avoid excessive force may make it impossible to accelerate the motor fast enough to get a good retraction speed.

Therefore I am suspicious of highly-geared extruders used with high-inertia motors. Unfortunately, on the web site I can't find any of the information I need in order to evaluate whether this is likely to be a problem. Specifically I want:

- Detailed specifications of the stepper motor
- Nature of the pinch mechanism (hobbed shafts, rubber rollers, or something else?
- Radius of the pinch wheels or hobbed shafts
- Approximate microsteps/mm, for a given motor steps/rev and microstepping factor

Good point. The 26mm motor is very small, light and has low inertia. Our current set-up operate with the basic 3000 mm/s^2 and there is no problem! The grip force and filament tension are designed to get this clicking "feature" before grinding, as we had with the previous extruder.

The motor runs at 1A, rated at 4.3V, 5mH inductance, 34 g.cm^2 inertia. It is probably one of the smallest motor available in NEMA17 size.
The pinch mechanism are made of straight knurling and lathe operations.
The pitch diameter is about 9.6mm
The extruder is configured at 645 steps / mm at 16Āµstepping

Thanks. You didn't give the holding torque of the motor at its rated current, but from looking at other motors of similar size I estimate it is about 18Ncm. Assuming it is a standard 1.8deg/step motor, this gives a product of steps/mm and torque of 11610, which is in the middle of my recommended range of 8000 to 14000. So IMO the gear ratio is about right for the design.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Quote
dc42
Thanks. You didn't give the holding torque of the motor at its rated current, but from looking at other motors of similar size I estimate it is about 18Ncm. Assuming it is a standard 1.8deg/step motor, this gives a product of steps/mm and torque of 11610, which is in the middle of my recommended range of 8000 to 14000. So IMO the gear ratio is about right for the design.

We have chosen this motor based on what we were able to fit in the tiny space and the torque performance curve. For this kind of motor, after a ratio of about 8:1, the output torque will decrease because the gain from a higher ratio is less than the lower torque from the motor.




DYZE DESIGN
Hotends, Extruders, Liquid Cooling and Accessories.
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