3D Systems Improves Botmill Quality

So I heard that 3DS acquired Z-corp. That's big news compared to the small companies they've been snapping up left and right.

Although this thread is about the botmill, to broaden the discussion, I do not have an issue with the so called mom and pop type of business, where they supply a need and give back to the open source/hardware community, but when companies like 3dsystems start getting involved it makes me feel uneasy, they have acquired many companies including zcorp recently, and with their past record of being quick to litigate, gives doubt to the prospect of them being community minded, Why should developers spend vast amounts of time and effort in order that 3dsystems can cash in on it.

---

Random Precision

"Why should developers spend vast amounts of time and effort in order that 3dsystems can cash in on it."
That's just one way of seeing it.
But it can also give value to the community if a bigger company can give support and delivery times that the community can't. Many open source projects founders/developers find the development fun and something they can do for free, but directly you need to mass produce it it takes the fun out of it. There is where commercial companies can do good.

Many commercial companies also knows the value of the developing communities and tries to support them back. If they don't, they soon realize someone else have taken over. Those things is normally quite self-regulating.

Alternatives are good!

Personally, I take exception to the title of this thread. The title is an unproven claim by the manufacturer which was designed to make people think that it's now safe to order from Botmill. Where's the proof of the improvement in quality? The Glider website is still littered with inconsistencies. It still claims that the Glider is not returnable because it's custom-made despite being in stock for 24 hr delivery. "Color choice is not guaranteed". It specifies RAMPS and Gen 6 for electronics: I guess which one you get depends on what's on hand. Well, there's a big difference between the two electronics. One supports heated bed and the other does not. "State-of-the-art electronics on one small powerful board". I guess you get Gen 6 then. Build envelope that goes to 5.5" (140 mm). Really? They can get this with a Wade extruder? In one place the nozzle is stated as 0.35 mm while in another place it states 0.02" (0.5 mm). They can't even fix their web site! This is improved quality?

There are no examples of printed parts in their web site. And, can one really trust this company to send a real sample that actually came out from one of their assembled Gliders as claimed in their website? They were recently reported in a Reprap blog of showing a part that was printed in other printers with their Glider in Makerfaire.

This thread is an advertisement that should go in the appropriate place in this forum: the Reprap Marketplace. It seems to me that the old Botmill practice of promising more than it can deliver continues under 3DS.

but directly you need to mass produce it it takes the fun out of it. There is where commercial companies can do good.

And get all the R and D for free ????
We shall have to wait and see if 3dsytems gives back to the community.

---

Random Precision

And get all the R and D for free ????
We shall have to wait and see if 3dsytems gives
back to the community.

I didn't say that everyone approves. But at least I try to differ between what I do for fun and what I do to professionally. That's why I normally release everything I do in my hobby (RC-multicopters) for free, even for commercial use. I find larger joy in that my development is used than I find it terrible that someone earns money on my work. The alternative would be it's not used at all since no one I know of would (as an example) like to manufacture hundreds of multicopter frames for free/self cost. I don't have the time (or lust) to try and earn money on it because then it would not be my hobby for fun any more and instead something I must deliver.

When it comes to 3DSystems I agree with brnrd, they have a lot to prove before I would even consider recommend them! To try earn money without even deliver, that's terrible and something the community should fight!

But at least I try to differ between what I do for fun and what I do to professionally

I think most of us do that, Don't we?.

The thing that concerns me is that it may detrimentally effect the open source/hardware community, by discouraging developers from sharing ideas and results.

The 3dsystems sla machines had a build platform which submerged the part into the resin for each layer, they patented this and called it deep dip, A patent on submerging an item????, this and many other patents were used to stifle the development of additive manufacture,

They spent vast amounts of money litigating to defend their patents, so it would be a surprise to see them suddenly become community minded .

Perhaps some of the patents are running out ???.

---

Random Precision

johnrpm Wrote:
> Perhaps some of the patents are running out ???.

Lots of patents are running out, as you surely know!
- FDM a few years now
- Z-corp also expired (in fact, when do we start to build powder based repraps printing multicolor )
- SLS should expire very soon!

But at least I try to differ between what I do for fun and what I do to professionally

I think most of us do that, Don't we?.

I didn't mean to sound cocky in any way (english is not my native language). It was more that I see mostly two different views from open source developers, I have full respect for both of them even though I personally is more of a "lesser GPL" guy than GPL. CC-BY-SA before CC-BY-NC.
I'm satisfied with doing the fun R&D work for free and let someone else make money doing the not so fun production (when it comes to my hobbies). But of course I want them to share back to the community any improvements they make and if they are smart they will support further R&D as well.

Like I said, I do understand the other view as well. I'm just sad that I have seen many good project fails because the economy making large scale production impossible and the small scale production (without much money) taking all the R&D time from the community members and putting a burden on them they can't handle so they quit. (This is actually happening/about to happen to some members of this community as well)

There's another post from a Botmill owner who just found out that your printer is not plug-and-play as claimed.

Where's the improved quality?

Thanks for bringing this to my attention Brnrnd. I sent him a PM to get it addressed personally.

Adam

Hi Adam,

If you come back to this forum and thread, please also take a look at these two new customers not getting results from Botmill, hopefully you can assist them also -

This one today - Botmill is a Nightmare

And this one from yesterday - I have the INCOMPLETE instructions from BOTMILL

---

[richrap.blogspot.com]

I would give it a better than even chance that when 3D systems bought botmill they bought it for their customer list not any IP. Botmill has no IP. I would bet they were surprised and disappointed at the "Brand Identification" that came with it.

The "sins of the past" that we are talking about here are the sins of botmill, not 3D systems. They've got some work to do to work with their (purchased) customer base. They've also reached out here to open up lines of communication.

Has 3D systems done anything to abuse the community yet?

I would argue that replacing bad botmill with a potentially good botmill would benefit the community, no?

The company track record isn't any better. Here's just a few points off the top of my head.

A fully built Reprap is technically not legal for sale anywhere in world unless it has the appropriate approval and the facility assembling the machine is also listed....>>>finished product with no EMC(EU), FCC(NA) approval, or electrical approval, is not legal.

Showing a Projet part on a reprap at Makerfair - Why would you show a part built on a machine and technology not being shown?

Desktop factory - 3D systems killed it before they shipped any machines. My guess is to save the Vflash project.

Vflash - Marketing failure, and machine problems - how did they fix it??the machine has been "repackaged" as a projet and the material is available in a few colors.

Existing 3D systems reseller network is not on board selling BFB or Botmill.....Quote: "No profit, and not worth the time"

They will also need to contend with the release of a low cost YAG laser that will allow us to use of any SLA resin available for solid state lasers and DIY Reprap based SLA kits in the very near future....wink wink.

Bot mill sent me a 1500 dollar paperweight. When I asked for assistance on their site three different ways I recieved nothing until I started to blog about the problems. They then sent me a message that said that I should have contacted them about the problem. I posted thier statements and my own replies. Now thier website no longer seems to be working( as if it ever did for anything but stealing money)

Hi folks,

I'm a total newbe. This is my first post.

I've been on the lookout for a printer with a big build. Want to make exclusive concrete molds.

Say, 400 x 400 x 300.

So I came across this exciting blog of Jim Smith's, a 23 year old newly graduated engineer.

He has developed, over the past 3 years or so, a brilliant 3d printer/mill which he has recorded meticulously in his blog.

It has style, size, innovation, aesthetics. Everything.

Then he appeared on tv and was snapped up by....

Guess who?

3D Systems.

One of the photos shows him at the 3D Stand with his machine.

Just had to register today to add this morsel for the chewing.

You have a great Forum. I've been luring in without registering for about 6 months.


Many thanks.

Greets

Jack

I just bought a Botmill assembled Glider, then found so many bad reviews on this forum but it's too late. I had tough time to get support from them from the very beginning. Somehow I got it working but now I won't be able to feed the new abs material, extruder is running and then the material get stuck at certain point. I set 230 deg. as target temperature in Repsnapper but the actual temp can only go up to 202 deg. Can anyone give a contact info. for 3D system so I can get support directly from them? Many thanks.

Hi @Automeasure

Sure - you can email support@botmill.com or go to our support ticket system www.botmill.com/support, or more specifically email our tech directly shaan@botmill.com. Tech phone #803-326-4073.

Let us know if you need anything or any help.

All the best,

BotMill Team

-------------

---

----------------------------------------
www.BotMill.com
Follow us on twitter @BotMill

@Botmill - see other post and please respond

---

[richrap.blogspot.com]

Hi @RichRap

Thanks for the head up. Posted a response here: [forums.reprap.org]

Let us know if you need anything and thank you very much for your attention.

All the best,

BotMill Team

It's really good that 3D system likes by all. Now days it is becoming need of every person. Your post is really beneficial. It gives me new ideas. Thanks

@WilliamK

Thanks!

---

----------------------------------------
www.BotMill.com
Follow us on twitter @BotMill

Adam/3DSBotmill there is a lot of ill will toward Botmill because of some truly underhanded business practices practiced by for the 1st year. Some of it was sending very low quality RP Parts, some of it was selling "Assembled" printers that where no where near done/functional, some of it was strange posts that came from Botmill's IP address.

Ford is not going to bring back the Gremlin, no matter how good of car it is, just because the name is now horrible.

3DS bought the Gremlin of 3d Printers. The Botmill name is going to be albatross around your neck in this community till your smart enough to dump it and rename yourself something different and stop selling a 3 year old RepRap design that the whole community stopped using 2 years ago.

Best advice, drop Botmill name, start selling Prusa or some other design besides Sells Mendel.

---

repraplogphase.blogspot.com