1.75mm Filament vs 3mm Filament

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Ralph.Hilton

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sheepdog43
Another problem is filament precision, anything over 10% out of spec is considered problematic. On 3mm, this is .3mm that is a HUGE deviation and very easy to stay within spec, on 1.75mm, you are allowed only .17, which is troublesome for some manufacturers. I have had some 1.75mm filament that was .24mm out of spec and jammed my bowden tube so bad I had to hammer a stiff metal rod into the tube to get it out.

10% is far too high. I see no reason to use a supplier who can't guarantee 5% .

Most agreed. If it's any more than 0.1mm I'd never again buy from them, percentage aside.

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Realizer- One who realizes dreams by making them a reality either by possibility or by completion. Also creating or renewing hopes of dreams.
"keep in mind, even the best printer can not print with the best filament if the user is the problem." -Ohmarinus

Like the responses and will heed the advice.

I would like to take 3d printing to a science as much as possible but because the
extruded part is changing constantly I can see where an artistic variable needs to be
allowed such as the G-code

Is there a list of Filament Suppliers to Avoid because of quality issues?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2014 06:29PM by andyinyakima.

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andyinyakima

Open Book, Open Source, You have to Open it to Know what's in it!

I'd say there are more to avoid than to buy from. Do your research with a bit of research to go with it before you buy. I feel sorry for the people that just up and buy filament, that's a lot of plastic and a bit of money wasted because a filament bad enough will never go anywhere, shades of gray included.
I like MatterHackers, never let me down and I recommend them all the way. I've heard good things about UltiMachine. I've only tried 3DXTech's ABS/PA alloy, but it is the most pristine stuff I've ever purchased, package and filament both, so I assume their other stuff is good as well. I'll be buying some of it to see at some point.

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Realizer- One who realizes dreams by making them a reality either by possibility or by completion. Also creating or renewing hopes of dreams.
"keep in mind, even the best printer can not print with the best filament if the user is the problem." -Ohmarinus

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andyinyakima
So sheepdog43, you think 1.75 mm jhead would be a better place to start and compare results with the one I have now?

You're welcome,
I may not always agree with the reasons, but I do agree with many of the others in what they recomend...
If you already have a good working 3mm setup with a .5mm, until you have a reason to change, don't. You aren't going to get radically better results.

Worry about changing when you have either reached the limit of the machine or your skill. Until then, save your money.

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Ralph.Hilton
10% is far too high. I see no reason to use a supplier who can't guarantee 5% .

I totally agree.
Unfortunately I've seen many "guarantee it", but won't back it up when they fail to reach those specs. The company who jammed my bowden laughed and blew me off when I complained. This same company later asked me to make prints for them because they lack a printer, despite the fact that they claim to use the filament in their own printers and blame customers for all filament failures. There are some real sleezeballs out there.


As for companies... Ultimachine is great. It's similar to the older Makerbot stuff. Microcenter also carries a line by Toner Plastics (1.75mm only) that is also comparable, and well priced actually, especially since you can pick it up locally if you live near a Microcenter. I've had good luck with all 3, but given a choice, I will pick Ultimachine every time, I just wish it was cheaper. They also send samples of other colors, which is cool for trinkets.

I have found ultimachine, prototype supply to have excellent filament at a reasonable price.

I have machines running both sizes of filaments and I can't find any reasonable difference between the two.

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Ralph.Hilton
10% is far too high. I see no reason to use a supplier who can't guarantee 5% .

I totally agree.
Unfortunately I've seen many "guarantee it", but won't back it up when they fail to reach those specs. The company who jammed my bowden laughed and blew me off when I complained. This same company later asked me to make prints for them because they lack a printer, despite the fact that they claim to use the filament in their own printers and blame customers for all filament failures. There are some real sleezeballs out there.

I would pay with Paypal and use their dispute procedure. Also order a small quantity trying filament from a new supplier.

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Sublime
It seems that everyone thinks that 1.75mm takes less force but as far as I understand this is not true. A certain volume of plastic going through a certain size hole at a certain rate takes exactly the same pressure regardless of the filament input size. Or to put it simpler, the nozzle diameter determines the pressure required to extrude not the filament.
[...]

I believe you are confusing pressure with force.
I agree that the pressure depends on the nozzle diameter, but the force you need to push the filament is Pressure x Filament Section Surface. As S = Pi x (Wire Diameter/2)^2, the force you need to apply to the wire is (3/1,75)^2= 2,94 times higher with 3mm wire.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2016 03:11AM by mbrembati.

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mbrembati

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Sublime
It seems that everyone thinks that 1.75mm takes less force but as far as I understand this is not true. A certain volume of plastic going through a certain size hole at a certain rate takes exactly the same pressure regardless of the filament input size. Or to put it simpler, the nozzle diameter determines the pressure required to extrude not the filament.
[...]

I believe you are confusing pressure with force.
I agree that the pressure depends on the nozzle diameter, but the force you need to push the filament is Pressure x Filament Section Surface. As S = Pi x (Wire Diameter/2)^2, the force you need to apply to the wire is (3/1,75)^2= 2,94 times higher with 3mm wire.

Yes but you dont account for the speed/flow at which you need to push the filament through, ie Bernoulis equation Conservation of Energy
There is however a school of thought that it takes less time for the heat to fully melt 1.75 compared to 3mm for a given rate of flow/filament length although if this is the case, raising the hotend temp by a few degrees would counter this. In countenance to this is the amount of energy used to melt a given volume of plastic does not change.
In my experience 3mm is far less likely to tangle and is far easier to untangle when/if it does, and is less likely to snap. Also when using flexible filaments 3mm is going to be stiffer than 1.75 and so less likely to kink along the filament force path (ie the path exiting the hobb through to and inside the cold section of the hotend)

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2016 09:50AM by Mutley3D.

I've got one printer running 3mm and one uses 1.75mm. I was going to have both using the same so I don't need two sets of filaments, but I can't decide between them. The 3mm is quite stiff which sometimes causes problems and the extruders have to be geared to drive it hard enough. There seems to be equal choice in filaments these days and the prices seem equal (in the UK at least).

If only because the 1.75 is easier to handle, and runs off the spool easier and can be fed from a simpler extruder I'd pick 1.75.

I set up one of my extruders to run 3mm so that I could take advantage of a clearance sale. It seems to me that you can make either work, and preferences probably come down to the particular filament type you're using.