Standardize A Training RepRap For Newbies Updates Every Six Months (a la Ubuntu)

While RepRap standardization at this early stage in time would be relatively difficult, painful and could slow progress...

I think we should come up with a very simple STANDARD Beginners' RepRap.

A RepRap Junior should have:

1. A concise Bill of Materials
2. A standardized electronics suite
3. A standard software tool-chain
4. Full Build Instructions (community uploaded videos too)
5. Full Printing Guides (from simple objects, to objects that need support structure)

This RepRap Jr. (TM) would be a great place for new folks to jump head first into the community; and help bolster us as a station in Open-Source hardware.

The plans, guides, parts, pieces, and software for this machine would remain unchanged for six-month blocks (a la Ubuntu; a famously successful open-source platform)

A "feather-in-cap" RepRap dev, appointed by Adrian Bowyer should take some minor responsibilities as a leader (gasp! heresy!) and preside over the junior Model and make decisions about the changes between releases.

This would not be a job for a committee. Someone would have to make solid decisions and run with them for six months.

I would therefore recommend that Adrian appoint a new RepRap Junior Master every year, allowing one DEV two releases. This way, we can get a better spectrum of different ideas injected into the Junior Model (one dev might support a different electronics or software set etc.)

I think this could help grow the community, get some new blood and ideas injected into our projects.

I am ready to work on such a project immediately, and am ready support an appointed DEV with the task.

I would love your suggestions --> If this idea is not adopted, I will be running with this idea on my own and will be looking for supporters.

As Ubuntu is to Linux, that is what we will be to RepRap.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2012 07:33PM by Idolcrasher.

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FabberForge - Printing Happiness

[www.fabberforge.com]

You might be interested in this wiki article [reprap.org]
and the associated forum discussion.

A good place to start some considerations.

I wouldn't necessarily run with all of those "stable" choices

Well, maybe it's time to update!

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- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

Updated.

Looks good to me!

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- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

Needs some pictures. I'll post some for the components I have.

Idolcrasher Wrote:
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> A good place to start some considerations.
>
> I wouldn't necessarily run with all of those
> "stable" choices

Actually, this is hilarious! The whole point of the "Standard Build" was to provide a single entry point for newbies to get started - a good idea in itself. The point was made that having a "standard" build is impossible, since there are so many variations no will agree, and innovation means that things can (should) become obsolete. The compromise was to call it something else, but still be the starting point to guide beginners.

So now you propose having two "Standard" builds for beginners.... and we are back to square one. We also have a de facto Junior Master already, by name of Buback, since he drove the thing through.

If there are deficiencies in the Latest Stable Build in terms of build guides, etc, by all means contribute to that.

ETA Shouldn't changes to the "Stable Build" be discussed before they are made? And I think the idea was to have single recommendations....

A stable parts list updated yearly is nice, but does not yet constitute a full comprehensive starting gateway.

Indeed a committee would not agree on a single solution; I therefore suggest an arbiter, appointed by the all-father, in a role that will expire in a pre-determined amount of time.

We will know that our newbie-gateway is working well when the, "i'm new and confused" forum posts drop off and our membership count goes up.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2012 07:32PM by Idolcrasher.

Good point, bobc. I've reverted my changes and put up my ideas at [reprap.org]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2012 07:35PM by Pointedstick.

Personally I think it is perfect the way it is. If you can't find the info the way it is you are not looking hard enough. It is all there and if the tiny bit of work it takes to find it is enough to make you give up, This is not for you. The simple fact is this takes a certain kind of mind and that mind needs to be able to problem solve and find answers, not have answers handed to you. It actually further extends the Darwinism in RepRap by only selecting those people that are capable of extending the evolution of the machines. I know it is hard to understand all the information but until you do you are lost with a RepRap either way. It is all important and everyone involved should know exactly what they are getting into and have the determination to follow through with the project.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2012 03:10AM by Sublime.

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FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Well,

I certainly understand your logic Sublime, but I certainly don't think extra screening at the entrance to the hobby is necessary for the RepRap project to be successful.

In fact, I could imagine very intelligent minds being turned off by disorganization in the site and in the wiki.

It seems to me that you like the idea of getting into this hobby as sort of a "right of passage" for new folks. Keeping in mind, that RepRap was created, so that in its purest form, it could remove the need for money, I think we should work towards tearing down barriers for others so they can get into the RepRap project too.

I don't need to be the only person who can build a RepRap to know I am awesome... I ALREADY KNOW I AM AWESOME!!!!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2012 02:53AM by Idolcrasher.

Okay, I've fleshed out my ideas for a more newby-friendly page at [reprap.org]

Thoughts? It cold use a bit more text, to be sure, but I wanted to design something a little more inviting and visually appealing than the typical bulleted list with paragraphs of text

Pointedstick Wrote:
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> Okay, I've fleshed out my ideas for a more
> newby-friendly page at
> [reprap.org]
>
>
> Thoughts? It cold use a bit more text, to be sure,
> but I wanted to design something a little more
> inviting and visually appealing than the typical
> bulleted list with paragraphs of text

That looks like a really great start. To what I had in mind

@pointedstick

I think the all metal hot-end that RepRap Pro uses NEEDS to go on that list.

It does not even have a wiki page yet (I think). I think designs for it are available n their GitHub, I will have to look.

The RepRap Pro all-metal hot end it pretty stupid-simple and effective. Someone not afraid to cut and tap aluminum could make one themselves pretty easily.

I dig that you put the Azteeg on there. I agree.

Declaring such a "standard" pretty much asks for stopping innovation in our commercially driven RepRap world. If newbies would honor this, everybody not on this list would stop being successful with his design and making a new design successful would become about impossible. Example: what makes an Azteeg "better" than a RAMPS better than a Melzi? Probably nothing, they all work the same.

What we need is a standard regarding interfaces. Like "take any electronics you want, it can be programmer with any standard compatible xyz and operated with any standard compatible host abc".

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Generation 7 Electronics	Teacup Firmware	RepRap DIY

... there is some standard already there - most electronics runs with 5Volts (or TTL-level), most stepper drivers are controlled by two pins (STEP, DIR), the interface is controlled by USB ...

So maybe there is more need for a sort of 'combination-roadmap' - e.g.: "take this parts, plug them in this order together, use this software ..."

But if I remember correct, this is made several times already in Wiki and in some of the FAQ-threads ... so maybe a better entry-page for newcommers?

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Quote

... there is some standard already there - most electronics runs with 5Volts (or TTL-level), most stepper drivers are controlled by two pins (STEP, DIR), the interface is controlled by USB ...

Excellent point!

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Generation 7 Electronics	Teacup Firmware	RepRap DIY

All great points,

A "road-map" sounds pretty awesome.

I am a Melzi and Ramps guy myself, but I could absolutely see myself using other electronics sets.

It would be a great idea to make sure that the "map" pointed out different possible "paths" they could take, while still being concise and helpful.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2012 10:55AM by Idolcrasher.

Traumflug Wrote:
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> Declaring such a "standard" pretty much asks for
> stopping innovation in our commercially driven
> RepRap world. If newbies would honor this,
> everybody not on this list would stop being
> successful with his design and making a new design
> successful would become about impossible.

That's an oversimplification and you know it.
A "standard" build can be declared w/ compatibilities, without specifying "low level" standards that would make a beginner run away screaming.

There's plenty of RAMPS pin compatible solutions out there, for example.
Stating "Ardu Mega + RAMPS compatible controller", along with a quick list of solutions that are compliant with that spec is enough.

Those not willing to research will either choose a random item off that list (equality preserved) or the cheapest one (open market rules preserved).
Those willing to, will look up all the solutions and decide for themselves.

And everyone's happy.

... there were many threads, long forgotten in the archives, about conversion and combinations of different electronics, firmwares, hosts, hot-ends and such.

In the 'old days of Gen3' I've posted here and in some other 3D-printing related forums some infos for converting CNC-mills to superior 'RepStraps' by replacing parts or the complete electronics of the CNC-controller ... or updating/replacing the Gen3-electronics with the then new Arduino Mega 1280 ... or update RepRap's with lasercutter-heads or paste-dispensers ...

All this infos are there already, but spread across the entire internet and hard to find and reconnect/update for valid paths ...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2012 09:04AM by VDX.

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

It is a known fact that too many options and choices can make people give up and choose nothing. A page simplifying the decision making for someone new might help. I'm not sure it is going to work though as that page will become just yet one more option for someone new to consider.

I tried to do something like that in the software area. Done it by providing a single package that installs drivers, Pronterface, Slic3r, Skeinforge and even pulls the configuration files presets from the online profiles repository (here it is: X2SW Software Bundle). It has been released only a few days ago, so no idea yet if it really helps and/or generates any interest.

--dob71

Nice, very nice. Thanks for the effort!

Question time:

Should the training bot be Cartesian (like Huxley or Mendel), or should it be a Delta Bot (Rostock)?

The Rostock is really pretty easy to assemble... Not a lot of them in the wild yet... But we would be cutting build difficulty pretty strongly.

Idolcrasher Wrote:
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> Question time:
>
> Should the training bot be Cartesian (like Huxley
> or Mendel), or should it be a Delta Bot (Rostock)?

Whatever you are prepared to spend hundreds of hours answering questions about because if you make it look easy we will not have less stupid questions being asked but rather more. The easier people think it is to get into the more stupid people you will have to deal with when they can't follow even the simplest of instructions.

Lowering the bar does nothing for society other than make people try even less. It is only by raising the bar can we ever hope to have a society made up of people that can be self reliant which is the goal of this technology being able to make people no longer rely on big business.

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FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Anyone can make something more complicated.

Gifted people can make difficult tasks simpler.