Nozzles sizes are getting finer...

[www.aliexpress.com]

Wonder how you are supposed to unblock it?

0.04m Acupuncture Needle

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Out of the box thinking is easier when you never fitted in the box to begin with.

... this is most likely a typo - with nozzle diameters below 0.2mm it's already a PIA to get them printing reliable

I think the 0.05mm was originally meant for layer height ...

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Don't see why it's a typo, 0.1mm are available in quantity... but to be honest, Chinese don't have great reputation for build quality.

[www.aliexpress.com]

Quote
Rlewisrlou666
0.04m Acupuncture Needle

ROFL

Quote
DragonFire
Don't see why it's a typo, 0.1mm are available in quantity... but to be honest, Chinese don't have great reputation for build quality.

[www.aliexpress.com]

... for printing reliable with a nozzle bore-diameter of 0.15mm you'll need prretty big experience an a perfect hotend/feeder-combo ... with even thinner bore sizes the related problems grow exponentially

And for the "typo" - scroll down to the image with the printer specs -- it has a nozzle with 0.4mm diameter and 0.05 to 0.3mm layer thickness.

Here the related excerpt:

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Hey, that's great news. If I bring such a nozzle to market, I'll have NO COMPETITION...

Even better news would be doing it as open source, of course. I'll think about that.

Not that anyone here is interested in trying some experimental nozzles, I am sure you are all VERY HAPPY with your 0.3mm "detailed" models when the folks with resin printers come out to visit...

... will try shouting out again when the kit is ready to send off.

Send them over I'll test anything. lol

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Out of the box thinking is easier when you never fitted in the box to begin with.

... oh, it's no problem to make thinner nozzles (I've made some with around 0.03mm bore diameter for an ink-jet system and even down to 50 nanometers for a special microtech/nanotech project) -- the problem is to get the plastic through

Ink-Jet-printers with UV-cured glues can only print with 0.03mm nozzle- and droplet sizes, because of the low viscosity of the resin - I'm printing and paste-dispensing with ink-jetters and different fluids/pastes -- 0.05mm nozzles ar only good for fluids with up to some hundred mPas (water has 1 mPas!) ... and for higher viscous pastes with up to 50000 mPas I have to change to nozzles with 0.1mm to 0.2mm diameters with much higher pressing forces, than possible with a RepRap-style extruder.

Molten plastics are in viscosity ranges of some ten thousands to some hundred millions mPas !! -- so expect a bunch of problems when forcing plastic through a too small and too long nozzle ...

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Fair enough Viktor. I hear you. But I'm not going to stop tinkering... and I will only talk about the subject when I have something to offer for testing that is demonstrably better than current offerings. OK?

it's all relative, the smaller the nozzle gets the shorter your life will seem.

I think the key is in the gradient/pitch/angle of the nozzle bore.

If you can work out the best way to transition from 3mm/1.75mm to 0.01mm or what ever size nozzle you want to achieve without having steps or at the very least make the steps as small as possible, it'll in theory make things easier.

Looking at how the nozzles are made the majority are just 2mm bore with a 0.03mm hole at the very end.

If you could make a nozzle that has a conical hole from 2mm down to 0.01mm the nozzle would handle the flow of filament easier than tried to squeeze 1.75mm of molten plastic that is being constantly fed through a 0.01mm hole.

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Out of the box thinking is easier when you never fitted in the box to begin with.

Quote
Rlewisrlou666
I think the key is in the gradient/pitch/angle of the nozzle bore.

If you can work out the best way to transition from 3mm/1.75mm to 0.01mm or what ever size nozzle you want to achieve without having steps or at the very least make the steps as small as possible, it'll in theory make things easier.

Looking at how the nozzles are made the majority are just 2mm bore with a 0.03mm hole at the very end.

If you could make a nozzle that has a conical hole from 2mm down to 0.01mm the nozzle would handle the flow of filament easier than tried to squeeze 1.75mm of molten plastic that is being constantly fed through a 0.01mm hole.

That is true to a degree, extrusion needs less force if the inner shape of the nozzle isn't to steep. I found that out when i started using airbrush nozzles. At the same nozzle diameter the airbrush nozzles needed a lot less force to push the filament through. Ultimately however the nozzle opening is the deciding factor. While i have airbrush nozzles with 0.2mm diameter i don't use them. The gain in precision is not worth the hassle and speed reduction at all.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2016 02:49AM by Srek.

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[www.bonkers.de]
[merlin-hotend.de]
[www.hackerspace-ffm.de]

... if you want to FDM-print with 0.1mm (or even thinner), then it's much better not to melt+force a thicker filament through a thinner nozzle (what's causing the more dynamic problems, the smaller the bore), but to use a filament/fiber in the wished diameter and fuse/melt it directly with a laser onto the surface (known as "Additive Laser Fusing" - or in short ALF )

I'm propagating this since some ten years now and did this with 0.01mm thick platinum wires for a microtech sensor project.

Another point with thinner filament diameters is the rising fabbing time - halving the diameter will quadruple (or even more) the used time, as you not only have to print much more lines per slice, but the slice height will decrease too ... so you have to count/divide the complete volume ... expect days to weeks printing times for common part sizes instead of hours!

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

@srek, VDX - Thanks for the heads up guys I'll probably stick to a 0.3 till I'm dialled in and then move to a smaller Nozzle. It is always fun to tinker and push the limits of what things are capable of though.

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Out of the box thinking is easier when you never fitted in the box to begin with.

Hi Viktor,

I've been trying to drill my own nozzles and I'm not doing so well at the smaller sizes - no success below 0.4mm yet. I'm drilling into brass 360 stock on a lathe (Taig) with carbide mini drills, and I was wondering if you had any tips. I suspect I need to run the part as fast as I can to get the linear speed up on the very small diameter drill, and take very small pecks with the drill.

I am no expert at machining, but I found slower speed, plenty of lube work OK up to a depth of 3mm or more. Got to treat small bits very gently, they break very, very easily.

Brass tends to snatch at bits, you don't need high speed with brass. Low speed, more torque, and pecking isn't a great idea either. One continuous movement.

EDIT: Steel is very flexible, likes high speed to prevent the drill tip skidding at first contact. Brass is way software, nowhere near as flexible (ever seen a brass spring? Exactly).

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2016 03:36PM by DragonFire.

Yes, I have some normal drills that I re-profiled for brass, but there's no chance I can do that with the small ones! I'll order some more small drills one day and spend some happy time practising my drilling.

Try loading the bit till you've barely got any sticking out the end of the chuck and take it slow then feed the bit out in steps. More support less force.

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Out of the box thinking is easier when you never fitted in the box to begin with.

Hah, you need a pin vice maybe to hold the smaller bits?

Bitch to setup and get running central, but they do work.

Pin vice or a very very small collet chuck.

I've got loads of the little shits laying around in my toolboxes for when I used to mod Warhammer Miniatures.

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Out of the box thinking is easier when you never fitted in the box to begin with.

Most pin vice are limited to 1.2mm or greater, you need a 0-1mm for the smaller sizes. Something like this, which is ridiculously overpriced, shop around... I can pick one up for £5 at a model shop...

[www.amazon.com]

... I'm drilling medium-sized bores (down to 0.1mm diameter) on my +50 years old small lathe.

... smaller bores (down to 0.02mm) with a fiberlaser ...

... even smaller then either with "compressing" the metall around to shrink the bore diameter, or with "inverted growing", where I'm adding metall around thin fibers with galvanics -- here the smallest "nozzle" was a conical one with 10 nanometers opening, 50 microns long and around 200 nanometers at the "big" end

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Must be a problem finding a spanner to do it up with.

Seriously though, how long did it take to manufacture such a small nozzle?

@VDX - Jeez that sounds like fun and here's me having trouble drilling straight 6mm holes to put up a shelf. ☹️️

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Out of the box thinking is easier when you never fitted in the box to begin with.

... with small to microscopic dimensions you have to change pretty much (if not all) of your tooling behaviour -- I've done this sort of jobs since some ten years now and have a nice assortment of tools and "remains" at home, so I can use them for my DIY themes too

But then too - one of my longest wishes/ideas after school was to setup a kind of "homebrew nanotech" ... seems to work now

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Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Sounds like you've got your wish to come true.

I'm just getting my shed sorted and once my printer build and cnc build are finished I should have a workshop where I can design and build anything I want or need.

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Out of the box thinking is easier when you never fitted in the box to begin with.

Quote
VDX
... with small to microscopic dimensions you have to change pretty much (if not all) of your tooling behaviour -- I've done this sort of jobs since some ten years now and have a nice assortment of tools and "remains" at home, so I can use them for my DIY themes too

But then too - one of my longest wishes/ideas after school was to setup a kind of "homebrew nanotech" ... seems to work now

Uh... that doesn't answer my question Viktor. How long did it take to make your smallest nano nozzle?

I understand if you have signed NDA on the technology and can only answer "no comment" without breaking disclosure.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2016 08:10AM by DragonFire.

@Dragonfire - Probably about as long as it will take for him to answer your question.

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Out of the box thinking is easier when you never fitted in the box to begin with.

... which size are you interestd in? - the correct answer will depend on the used methode ...

Fastest is "normal" drilling with e.g. 0,3mm and then compress (or hammer) the nozzle tip smaller than want and manually "reopen" it with a 0,1mm drill to get a perfect 0.1mm orifice.

Drilling with the lathe is pretty easy/fast with the right chucks and tools, but can take some hours to days to search/buy or DIY, if not at hand for the correct sizes.

Laser-drilling is normally pretty fast (like CNC-milling), but I have then to rearrange/rebuild my basic CNC-machine and controller, so have to push this in my spare free time ...

"Nano-nozzles" will need some preparation - for the "10nm-bores" we had to prepare some "targets" at the GSI, where they "shoot" some ion-sized (atomic dimensions of some Angstrôms in diameter) channels through the targets with a linear particle accelerator.

The "making" of the nano-holes/nozzles are then several pretty complex manufacturing steps with chemistry, galvanics and microsopy/microhandling ... normally done in a lab, but I have most of the needed tools in my basement ...

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]