The 3D printed gun

[www.forbes.com]

I downloaded the stl's of the liberator from defense distributed. The parts are really small. I scaled it up to 2000% and that seems close. but when you are making something that takes a specific sized bullet its necessary to get the scaling correct.

Anyone know the exact scaling to print this at.

And no, I wont be firing this with it in my hand, I'm not stupid. A pole and a 20 foot string is all I need to be safe.

Also, wouldn't nylon or polycarbonate be better than abs to print this in? polycarbonate is used as a bullet proof shield by mythbusters.

I think if you scale it up by 25.4 it should work fine. also i mentioned this on defcad, try finding a thick spring and then grinding the inside part flat, so it can be used as rifling. you may need to use more than one spring, probably 3 and then stretch them out, or just one long one. that eliminates the issue of not having enough metal and the smooth bore.

aduy Wrote:
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> I think if you scale it up by 25.4 it should work
> fine.

That is really funny.

---

[www.matter-replicator.com]

@rsilvers: And WHAT is so funny?

2000 % is a factor of 20 which was close...

That means that the file was in inches instead of the required millimeters and scaling by a factor of 25.4 puts it into millimeters so it can be properly printed.

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Bob Morrison
Wörth am Rhein, Germany
"Luke, use the source!"
BLOG - PHOTOS - Thingiverse

... funny is, that this 'hint' has to be given again and again ... was dealing with converting XY(Z)-coordinates between imperial and metric since my first flatbed-plotter experiences around '78, so it's normally 'as common as breathing' in the CAD-world

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

THAT is not funny, IT IS SAD!

---

Bob Morrison
Wörth am Rhein, Germany
"Luke, use the source!"
BLOG - PHOTOS - Thingiverse

100,000 downloads...

[www.bbc.co.uk]

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

It also doesn't help the situation that the average person here in the states thinks that 3D printers are some kind of magical thing that all you do is press print and this perfect object comes out. They compare it to their printer at home. There is a huge misconception on 3D printers. I asked my grandfather who watches the news regularly what he thought about 3D printers and he said, " They are dangerous machines that should be regulated; We should all be aware of who these 3D printers are." I explained to him that I owned several and took him to my " laboratory" to show him how they worked and the truth about 3D printers. After that I asked him if his opinion changed and he told me, " Yes it has. The amount of skill and knowledge needed to print a gun is very high and it would be much easier and reliable to make a gun the way it has been done for a long time. Not printing one." Its the misconceptions that are dangerous. I just thought that this could serve as an example to what the average mis-informed person is thinking.

---

--------------| For Everything |--------------------------
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Now featuring comp case mods:
[RepRapLab.wordpress.com]

--------------| Find us at Twitter|------------------------
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[mobile.twitter.com]
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[mobile.twitter.com]

my thoughts exactly, there are plenty of other ways for people to make guns, saying you can just click print is like saying anyone can just order up a mill, and a lathe and just push start and it just makes whatever you want. its not that simple, and not that many people can or are willing to spend the time how to learn to use one. like i mentioned before, anyone with access to a hardware store can make a 12 gauge shotgun in less than 15 minutes.

But don't you think that this is simply the first generation of printable firearms? I would wager that subsequent generations will be designed so that they are easier to print on a broader variety of machines. If you think this is the end of the line in the evolution of this story I believe you're sadly mistaken. Right now 100,000 people have the design files in their hands. How many of them are modifying the files right now? The type of organic growth around this object is going to be unstoppable, just like the growth of the RepRap project. It's also going to mean the proliferation of designs, designs which may not look like a gun at all. This object will be democratized to the nth degree.

On the practical side this is going to make police work very, very difficult in the near future. Given all the rhetoric floating around these days what is going to happen when a kid points a toy gun at a police officer and the cops shoot back? Will they be justified? After all, at distance you can't distinguish a 3D printed gun from a toy. Or what if a working 3D printed firearm looks nothing like a traditional gun? What a great way for a criminal to get the drop on the police or airport security.

I just get the feeling that we haven't heard the last of this.

Joris Peels had a great blog post about this whole 3D-printed gun thing today.
[voxelfab.com]

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

I doubt that your printer will be able to print one that you could actually fire. They are using a Shapeways type printer and their 1st attempts exploded.

The MSM is jumping on the band wagon

[news.yahoo.com]

and I am telling you Congress, the retarded as only retards are up there, will do something against 3d printing. I said it last year and I can still feel it that something stupid is going to pass. Heaven help the technology if we get some idiot in a movie theater, or a mall, who used a 3d printed gun and killed 20 or 30 people with it. Even worse is if some idiot smuggles one on a plane and kills people on the plane with it because then we will have everyone out to destroy 3d printers via legilation.

Yes, dangerous as all get out to use one right now but that never stopped someone trying to make a point.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

I have to agree with Joris Peels' blog post (although it became a little bit rambling at the end). The spite that Defense Distributed shows for human life bugs me more than the fact that there is yet another firearm.

Yes. But their subsequent attempts have not. It is only a matter of time. We are cultivating the path for this in continually improving our machines and processes. As we improve, the chances of a easily 3D printable gun do as well.

Our fates are inexorably tied together at this point.

lotw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I doubt that your printer will be able to print
> one that you could actually fire. They are using
> a Shapeways type printer and their 1st attempts
> exploded.

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

sort of on the topic of 3d printed guns. has anyone seen a 3d printed bb (airsoft style) gun anywhere?

I think some of you are still missing the point, if DD hadn't, someone else would have. It was inevitable.

Defdist isn't the first. Haveblue did it a while ago.

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

akhlut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Defdist isn't the first. Haveblue did it a while
> ago.

This.



On a technical tangent, he's using simple ABS, right? I wonder how high of heat resistance the barrel really has to be able to withstand (taking tensile strength out the equation). ABS melts, but there are MUCH higher temperature resistant printable mediums, like the Stratasys ultem (according to wikipedia, has a similar temp resistance to PEEK), nylon, or possibly polycarbonate. I wonder if a barrel with the inner layers printed out of one of those materials could actual have a feasibly useful lifespan.

I am sort of interested if the instructions that come with the 3D files include a warning about possibly sub-par output from hobbyist printers. Can anyone who already downloaded the files upload just the instructions?
Downloading the files myself sort of doesn't bode well with me since this would add to their statistics and I honestly don't feel like supporting that.

akhlut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Defdist isn't the first. Haveblue did it a while
> ago.


Well, I printed an AR lower - it's only by way of the 1968 Gun Control Act that what I printed is by itself a firearm. On the AR lower and the 10/22 receiver I printed, heat is not a concern, so standard ABS works just fine.

As for more exotic materials, yes, use of Ultem 9085 would certainly allow you to improve the barrel strength and use rounds with a higher pressure than .380 ACP. Unfortunately, Stratasys prints Ultem 9085 with extruder temps of 380 C in a heated chamber held at 185 C!

---

[haveblue.org]

uGen, as per your request, here is the readme file.

---

[haveblue.org]

1968 Gun Control act, pffft. The same act that removed the 2nd amendment from anyone who ever committed a Federal crime and in the same act removed the right to vote from the same people. It was just an act to remove rights as voting has nothing to do with firearms except both were rights to be taken away forever.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

It seems the DoD have shut the downloads off.

Department of State, actually - ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations) falls under the purview of the State dept, not DoD.

---

[haveblue.org]

Thank you for the file, Have Blue.

As I sort of expected, there is not even one mention of possible dangers, continuing the utter disregard for harm to others caused by failed parts due to wrong settings.
Apparently, you have only few settings to choose from in the Stratasys host software so you can't really mess up that much, but the open source slicers offer so much more choices in settings, making it possible to print a completely inadequate part.
In conclusion, their instructions are incomplete and a danger to inexperienced users wanting to copy them without much knowledge and experience in 3D printing.

Edit: Here you have it, even I, certainly not an expert in firearms and plastics could see the problems of a printed gun. Now some people certainly more knowledgeable in these respective fields back my concerns. So how could Cody Wilson not have seen this or did he completely ignore what his project might cause!?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2013 06:42AM by uGen.

Quote
He calls Cody Wilson, founder of Defense Distributed, "irresponsible" to share files for a printable gun online: "If you look at these files, there are all sorts of attached text documents about how to put them together, but nothing about the materials you must use for it to work or the printer you need to employ. It's highly irresponsible, but there are plenty of fools who will jump at the chance to have a go.

I get it and it's true.

But let me point to youtube.

There are HUNDREDS upon THOUSANDS of people doing irresponsible things, and showing other people how to do said irresponsible things.

Why pick on 3D Printers? Ignorance, and the media is doing a wonderful job spreading it.

“[Defense Distributed's] files are being removed from public access at the request of the U.S. Department of Defense Trade Controls," read a banner atop the website. "Until further notice, the United States government claims control of the information.”

Read more: [www.foxnews.com]

"Until further notice, the United States government claims control of the information.”

To me, the above statement is far scarier than the concept of any 3D printed gun.

---

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Don't get all fussy about the Federal Government taking away the right to own guns or vote for felony offenses. The law prohibiting violent felons from owning guns is not new. It dates back to 1934. States do the same damn thing as evidenced by the fact that only a handful of states allow felons to own firearms after serving their sentences. Most states don't allow this because they agree with the feds.

Are you going to argue against the NRA? They seen to agree with the feds on this point as we keep hearing over and over again. Does their mantra "keep guns out of the hands of criminals" sound familiar?

As far as voting goes you should check this out.
[felonvoting.procon.org]
Looks like VT and ME are the only ones who get it right.


Dark Alchemist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1968 Gun Control act, pffft. The same act that
> removed the 2nd amendment from anyone who ever
> committed a Federal crime and in the same act
> removed the right to vote from the same people.
> It was just an act to remove rights as voting has
> nothing to do with firearms except both were
> rights to be taken away forever.

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

Because Fox News kinda never gets the story correct I would suggest you choose a reliable information source.

[www.forbes.com]

Shutting down Defcad is not a political statement. Wilson may have broken the law. An an arms manufacturer he should have fully understood the ITAR rules before publishing his designs online. His claims under the research exemption are flimsy at best. Personally, I think he's screwed.

Knimrod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> “ files are being removed from public access at
> the request of the U.S. Department of Defense
> Trade Controls," read a banner atop the website.
> "Until further notice, the United States
> government claims control of the information.”
>
> Read more:
> [www.foxnews.com]-
> 3d-gun-printer-defense-distributed-to-pull-weapon-
> specs-off-website
>
> "Until further notice, the United States
> government claims control of the information.”
>
> To me, the above statement is far scarier than the
> concept of any 3D printed gun.

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]