Resolution along X and Y vs Z: are belts precise enough?
Posted by cristian
|
Re: Resolution along X and Y vs Z: are belts precise enough? May 29, 2015 08:16PM |
Quote
AndrewBCN
@ Viktor,
Interesting!
I guess I will have to test a couple of toothed pulleys in one of my printers to verify this. Here is a vertical flat surface and indeed, one can see a very faint vertical wave pattern. I confess I never paid any attention to this because the vertical wave pattern cannot be felt by running a fingernail along the surface, contrarily to the horizontal pattern formed by the layers themselves:
how fast are your perimeters?
-=( blog )=- -=( thingiverse )=- -=( 3Dindustries )=- -=( Aluhotend - mostly metal hotend)=--=( Facebook )=-
|
Re: Resolution along X and Y vs Z: are belts precise enough? May 29, 2015 10:23PM |
i printed off the same object changing only the perimeter speeds,
the back two are at 60mm/sec
the front one is 10mm/sec
you can see the vertical ridges lining up roughly where in the infil connects to the perimeter, i think based on this that the vertical ridges are a product of (1) the perimeter speed (2) the infil density (3) and also the number of perimeters as more perimeters would mitigate any effect from the infill
the back two are at 60mm/sec
the front one is 10mm/sec
you can see the vertical ridges lining up roughly where in the infil connects to the perimeter, i think based on this that the vertical ridges are a product of (1) the perimeter speed (2) the infil density (3) and also the number of perimeters as more perimeters would mitigate any effect from the infill
-=( blog )=- -=( thingiverse )=- -=( 3Dindustries )=- -=( Aluhotend - mostly metal hotend)=--=( Facebook )=-
|
Re: Resolution along X and Y vs Z: are belts precise enough? May 30, 2015 09:55AM |
I'll post a few more pictures later today, but I have already examined a few more printed objects with vertical walls.
I can see the very faint regular waves in a few of them. However, I can see much more clearly some vertical patterns in low infill objects. In all cases when these waves are visible, I am using some blue PLA filament which is a little bit translucent, and as I wrote before, these wave patterns do not really translate into noticeable surface irregularities, so right now I am undecided between the two possible explanations (infill-related or "belt teeth on flat pulleys"-related, but one thing I am quite confident about, is that these wave patterns are nothing much to worry about, compared to our other printing issues!
For example, I am much more worried about changing to another spool of filament and the changes in print quality and the adjustments I'll have to make to the printer/slicer settings!
I can see the very faint regular waves in a few of them. However, I can see much more clearly some vertical patterns in low infill objects. In all cases when these waves are visible, I am using some blue PLA filament which is a little bit translucent, and as I wrote before, these wave patterns do not really translate into noticeable surface irregularities, so right now I am undecided between the two possible explanations (infill-related or "belt teeth on flat pulleys"-related, but one thing I am quite confident about, is that these wave patterns are nothing much to worry about, compared to our other printing issues!
For example, I am much more worried about changing to another spool of filament and the changes in print quality and the adjustments I'll have to make to the printer/slicer settings!
|
Re: Resolution along X and Y vs Z: are belts precise enough? May 30, 2015 10:35AM |
Quote
AndrewBCN
For example, I am much more worried about changing to another spool of filament and the changes in print quality and the adjustments I'll have to make to the printer/slicer settings!
Sure, but that is for another thread!
|
Re: Resolution along X and Y vs Z: are belts precise enough? May 30, 2015 10:44AM |
Quote
thejollygrimreaper
Looking at the picture more carefully, I can count at least 16 infill rows on the long side, but not more than 13 ridges on the external surface of the same side: apparently it is not the same pitch. Since the amplitude of ridges depends on speed, it may come from any kind of vibration in the structure of the machine, including the vibration caused by belts teeth. But if they disappear at low speed, then it is something I may live with.
|
Re: Resolution along X and Y vs Z: are belts precise enough? May 30, 2015 01:26PM |
OK, my next few posts are a few pics which I just shot this afternoon. Note that not all objects have been printed recently, but they have all been printed on the same P3Steel (a Prusa i3 variant with a very rigid 3mm lasercut steel frame) which uses GT2 belts for the X and Y axis.
Let us begin with a shot of a part I printed recently using an opaque, nasty green PLA:
(click on the image below for the 1280 pixels wide version)
That one particularly makes me question both the "infill" and "belt teeth on smooth pulleys" theories, as there is no sign of a wave here, imo!
Let us begin with a shot of a part I printed recently using an opaque, nasty green PLA:
(click on the image below for the 1280 pixels wide version)
That one particularly makes me question both the "infill" and "belt teeth on smooth pulleys" theories, as there is no sign of a wave here, imo!
|
Re: Resolution along X and Y vs Z: are belts precise enough? May 30, 2015 01:34PM |
This one is a 10% infill test print. I think the pattern is quite obviously infill-related and not belt teeth related.
But if you look closely you'll notice some very, very faint vertical waves with a small pitch. Again,
But if you look closely you'll notice some very, very faint vertical waves with a small pitch. Again,
|
Re: Resolution along X and Y vs Z: are belts precise enough? May 30, 2015 01:45PM |
Next, a couple of prints with zero infill. Honestly I don't see any vertical waves here on this one:
And something too faint to call a wave on this one:
This one in particular makes me say that yes, the "belt teeth on smooth pulley" effect may be there, but it can be ignored as far as I am concerned!
And something too faint to call a wave on this one:
This one in particular makes me say that yes, the "belt teeth on smooth pulley" effect may be there, but it can be ignored as far as I am concerned!
|
Re: Resolution along X and Y vs Z: are belts precise enough? May 30, 2015 01:54PM |
This one was printed in red PLA, that was a very good spool of filament which resulted in many good prints with similar quality to this one:
And as you can see, no waves. I believe the infill was 40% here and perimeter speed, as usual, around 45mm/s.
And as you can see, no waves. I believe the infill was 40% here and perimeter speed, as usual, around 45mm/s.
|
Re: Resolution along X and Y vs Z: are belts precise enough? May 30, 2015 02:21PM |
Another one that I can't quite figure out. Again, note this blue PLA is slightly translucent, so the wave pattern may be simply due to an optical effect as a result of the rectilinear 45 degrees infill (40% in this case).
|
Re: Resolution along X and Y vs Z: are belts precise enough? May 30, 2015 03:22PM |
Quote
the_digital_dentist
Have you considered the possibility that the small waves are due to the extruder motor steps? Is it a direct drive extruder or is it geared?
That P3Steel has a standard Greg's Wade's Geared extruder. I do have another Prusa i3 with a Bowden/direct drive extruder that I can test... tomorrow!
|
Re: Resolution along X and Y vs Z: are belts precise enough? May 30, 2015 04:33PM |
Thank you for the pictures. I see stripes almost everywhere except in the central part of the orange piece. I think it is unlikely that a geared extruder (or an extruder in general) may cause perfectly vertical stripes, they should be inclined and shifted every time the "shape" of the layer changes with respect to the previous one, but of course only a proper test can tell.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2015 04:37PM by cristian.
except in the central part of the orange piece. I think it is unlikely that a geared extruder (or an extruder in general) may cause perfectly vertical stripes, they should be inclined and shifted every time the "shape" of the layer changes with respect to the previous one, but of course only a proper test can tell.Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2015 04:37PM by cristian.
|
Re: Resolution along X and Y vs Z: are belts precise enough? May 31, 2015 01:18AM |
Quote
the_digital_dentist
Here are some microscope photos of some vases I recently printed
OMG where do I get this??????
baby steps ... baby steps
|
Re: Resolution along X and Y vs Z: are belts precise enough? May 31, 2015 11:10AM |
Here is a calibration object I printed when I was calibrating the Bowden / direct drive extruder. As you can see, there is a very, very faint vertical wave pattern:
Again I confirm that this wave pattern does not translate into any measurable/perceptible surface irregularity or texture, whereas the layers themselves can easily be felt by running a fingernail along the surface of the part, and even counted when the macro image is examined carefully at full size.
I will include toothed belt pulleys in my next P3Steel build and will re-examine this issue then, mostly to satisfy my curiosity.
Again I confirm that this wave pattern does not translate into any measurable/perceptible surface irregularity or texture, whereas the layers themselves can easily be felt by running a fingernail along the surface of the part, and even counted when the macro image is examined carefully at full size.
I will include toothed belt pulleys in my next P3Steel build and will re-examine this issue then, mostly to satisfy my curiosity.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.