New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China

User Chris Hax on the Google Deltabots group posted this last night. At $65.08 USD with 5 stepper support, DRV8825's @ 1/32 micro-steps. and the network port on board, it certainly sets the bar for most features at that price point:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3D-printer-control-board-MKS-board-SBASE-board-is-compatible-with-Smoothieware-V1-0-32/32321983092.html

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Chris Hax
Managed to translate some more information from baidu.com:

Features:
1, using 32 of the 100M Cortex-M3 LPC 1768 main chip, performance dramatically.
2, support highly modular open source firmware Smoothieware, convenient secondary development, eliminating worries can not grasp the core code.
3, support network function, you can directly access via cable network, using IE browser remote control.
4, using 8825 as a motor drive, supports 32 segments, performance than 4988, using SOP package, better heat dissipation.
5, stepper motor current set directly, without having to worry about damage to the drive or potentiometer to adjust the current time.
6, the circuit board with high-quality 4-layer, and made ​​a special cooling optimization.
7, using a dedicated power chip, support 12V-24V power input.
8, can be connected to create customer base developed 12864LCD Dashboard MKS 12864.
9, can be connected to create customer base development touchscreen MKS TFT28.

Not real happy about the 8825's and it appears to use a single jumper to set stepping for all 5 drivers so if you decide to run 1/32 it would include the extruder steppers. On the plus side it uses a 4 layer board, digital pots and might support Reprapdiscount Ramps based LCD/adapter directly as well as their own "MKS" LCD.

I went to that link and what I think I saw (a bit out of focus and everything is in Chinese I believe) was 5 controllers marked JC(something)1 through 6 and they were 5 2 pin headers. So, that looks fairly like stepper controllers for microstepping to me so we could do different steps for X/Y/Z/E0/E1 if we wanted to.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

is there any other info on these that you know of? or just the aliexpress link? I bought some to try, am waiting to get them in a few days... Also tried the other Smoothie clone with the unpronouceable name, the AZSMZ (http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6625312665.html).... first try it worked, replacing a smoothieboard. Nice!
These should have digital pot control, so better than hand- tuning a Pololu IMO.

Paucus

I have found nothing outside of Ali but digital tuning vs manual tuning is better imo (well, for what we use it for it is but not always).

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

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SUDO1
hi
i have bought this one
[www.ebay.com]

Shipped with Registered Post and took 10 to the US. USPS Premium / wow! And very well packed!

including a free 1G micro SD card with pre installed Smoothieware firmware and config.txt and 1 USB cable

very nicely made board, 100% new and works great on my reprap with Optic endstops
I will buy another one for my Delta build.

I can recommend it

No offense but I have been on the net since 1996 and I have seen it all so when I see a brand new poster registered on the same day as the post they made with recommendations [edit: and a link to the product they say they purchased] I am a tad leary. It may be the best thing since pre sliced bread but we need more posters, who are well established, to chime in. Again, no offense but there are a lot of unscrupulous people, and sellers, who do these things so I am just saying.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2015 09:15AM by Dark Alchemist.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

I've been looking at electronics for my new printer and came across this as well. It has everything you need for dual extruders... unless you need always-on fans on your extruders like an E3D V6. Compared to the smoothieboard which has 3 large MOSFET outputs and 3 small MOSFET outputs, this has what looks like one largeish and 3 mediums. No specs so you can't tell exactly how large they are. Also, none of the pins they have in the breakout headers (EXP1 and EXP2) are hardware PWM pins. It would have been nice to have at least one, like 1.23.

Still, I am going to order one and put it through the paces on the benchtop with the FLIR camera to check out the heat dissipation and see how it goes. You just can't argue with that price, unless you're realistic and consider that for 1/3rd the cost of a smoothieboard, you're going to get what you pay for.

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CapnBry
I've been looking at electronics for my new printer and came across this as well. It has everything you need for dual extruders... unless you need always-on fans on your extruders like an E3D V6. Compared to the smoothieboard which has 3 large MOSFET outputs and 3 small MOSFET outputs, this has what looks like one largeish and 3 mediums. No specs so you can't tell exactly how large they are. Also, none of the pins they have in the breakout headers (EXP1 and EXP2) are hardware PWM pins. It would have been nice to have at least one, like 1.23.

Still, I am going to order one and put it through the paces on the benchtop with the FLIR camera to check out the heat dissipation and see how it goes. You just can't argue with that price, unless you're realistic and consider that for 1/3rd the cost of a smoothieboard, you're going to get what you pay for.

Let us know and what would be fantastic is for someone who gets one and breaks it out for people. The originator doesn't so forcibly do it for them for better or worse.

So, a list of what the major components are and one thing to look out for is inferior Chinese caps and/or inferior temp/voltage ratings on them.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2015 10:42AM by Dark Alchemist.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Yeah I'm not sure the images they have there are 100% accurate because looking at what pins they brought out, P0.14 isn't actually a thing as far as I can tell. Neither set seems to make much sense.

EXP1
P1.31 - SCK1/AD0[5]
P1.30 - AD0[4]
P0.18 - MOSI0
P0.16 - SSEL0
P0.14 - Not a thing?

So EXP1 is 1/2 an SPI bus (MOSI0/SSEL0, missing MISO0, SCK0), 2 ADC pins (AD0 4 and 5), and one mystery pin.

EXP2
P0.8 - SD_MISO
P0.7 - SD_SCK
P3.25 - PWM1[2] (SD_IRQ)
P0.28 - SCL0
P3.26 - PWM1[3] (SD_WP)
P0.9 - SD_MOSI
P0.27 - SDA0

EXP2 is almost the standard SD card interface except it doesn't have P0.6 for SD_CS? I guess there are 2 PWM pins after all, but they're the IRQ and write protect pins for the SD card that standard Smoothieboard uses. Also included is the two-wire SDA0 and SCL0 bus pins, so that's good.

It will be two weeks at least before I get the thing, but I'll be sure to probe out the pins to make sure they go where they say they do.

I have found this with a lot of Chinese dung. If they do not spell out, PRECISELY, what is what you can bet 99% of the time you will find something fake. I love tracing down leads that go no where on Chinese made consumer goods.

I await your findings but I suspect Caveat Emptor will be your findings which would suck.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

I totally agree with you, man. Even if it is spelled out explicitly, who knows what you're going to get. I'm kind of excited to have a look at it though, I feel like I'm going to be the first person to have one and objectively look it over! I'm amassing parts build a new 12x12 corexy printer out of v-slot to supplement or replace my 8x8 i3 which is somewhat temperamental and I can use the additional build space. I'm also getting a smoothieboard (because the firmware is just magnificent), but since "my company" is paying for it I thought it would be fun to tear apart this clone too. I mean what's another $70 onto the $1000 the printer is going to cost?

I love clones when done right. Hell, if it wasn't for clones I wouldn't be on this PC now because back in the day IBM sued over clones (hurt their business) and had they won we would not have what we have today or all would be stuck on an Apple (or rich as hell and have a real IBM).

My i3 Rework is a turd. I spent thousands and thousands of hours tweaking it and it finally gave me the finger and will not lay down a first layer. I have had people look at it and they were stumped so a lemon from the get go. So, I am printerless at the moment but my last ditched effort is to replace the MK2B and the "frog" Y plate so I can do 3 point leveling because I can level between two points but level all four points the same and the middle pops up (even through a heat spreader and 3mm thick boro glass).

So, once I get a printer (I can't print any parts or I would just start all over on something else) I want an ARM based controller so a real clone would be nice from a price vantage point.

Oh, about China I have seen all sorts of nonsense from them and people buying LED lamps from them and voltage converters for solar and wind etc... and OMG, the videos showing what is inside makes me wonder why everyone's house hasn't burnt down. There was this one video by some British bloke on a 20W LED spotlight that was really 10W AND the ground wire, on an all metal housing, was never connected. Just not connected on any he purchased from various sellers but the wire was there and stripped for it. Yeah, touch that potentially lethal contraption. Moral to the story is China sucks and I love the people who stick up for China made goods saying they can make quality goods but I will be damned if I have ever seen one and lets not forget their own military had SCUD missiles back during the first Desert Storm and they were utter crap too. If the military has garbage what do you think the consumer grade electronics will be like?

Good luck on your examination and you are in a perfect position too having a real Smoothie and this clone at the same time.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Four leveling screws is a design error from the start. 3 points define a plane, that's how many levelers you should have. If you turn one of 4 leveling screws, if the plate is perfectly rigid, the opposite corner moves in the opposite direction. But it isn't perfectly rigid, especially not in a cheap kit. Turning one screw causes the plate to bend. It's no wonder you can't get it flat or get prints to stick. Stacking a flexible piece of glass of questionable flatness on a thin piece of aluminum that you're bending with the leveling screws isn't going to help.

Boro is dead flat so at first I was just MK2B with Boro and I went to the heat spreader to help, and it did for a bit but not for long. Why Prusa designed a 4 point with not a way of doing a 3 point with it is another of my MANY reason I am not a fan of Josef Prusa. I do not discount his impact on all of us, good and bad, but his design decisions were sorely lacking in the i3 but, as he said on his blog, he designed the i3 to be aesthetically pleasing not designed to be functional. Luckily for us all the community added wings/braces for the Aluminum Z plane holder but nothing was really done for the "frog". So, I finally found a nice kit that uses SC8UU and will do 3 point (just seems they forgot to add a third hole on every side) and I bet that solves my problems.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Even if the glass plate is flat and remains that way, flexing the "heat spreader" underneath means parts of the heat spreader won't be in contact with the glass. That's going to cause wide temperature variations over the surface of the glass and again, you'll have problems getting prints to stick. I've never understood the point of putting a thermal insulator on top of the bed plate. Why not just use a flat piece of aluminum and be done with it? Cast aluminum tooling plate works well. If you have to have a piece that comes off the bed with the print, start with a flat aluminum plate underneath and print on a thin piece of aluminum that clamps to the bed plate.

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the_digital_dentist
Even if the glass plate is flat and remains that way, flexing the "heat spreader" underneath means parts of the heat spreader won't be in contact with the glass. That's going to cause wide temperature variations over the surface of the glass and again, you'll have problems getting prints to stick. I've never understood the point of putting a thermal insulator on top of the bed plate. Why not just use a flat piece of aluminum and be done with it? Cast aluminum tooling plate works well. If you have to have a piece that comes off the bed with the print, start with a flat aluminum plate underneath and print on a thin piece of aluminum that clamps to the bed plate.

Well, Boro glass is far from an insulator but I know what you mean. After much reading about this we use glass for only one reason and that is nothing else is as flat for cheap. MK heated plates are horrible with a bow or a bulge and the aluminum plate (my heat spreader) is far from flat as well so we use the glass which is flat. Even flatter is a mirror but it can't handle fast heatup and cool downs like Pyrex (Boro) glass can.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Glass is definitely an insulator compared to aluminum.

My 12" x 12.5" x 1/4" cast/milled aluminum tooling plate cost $30 from an industrial metals supply company. How cheap does it have to be? By the time you pay for a thin aluminum "spreader" and a piece of glass, how much are you going to save? $5-10? It is worth all the problems? I don't get the obsession with making these machines as cheaply as possible, especially when you're trading a few $ for many hours of troubleshooting. What is your time worth?

Don't preach to the Choir, lol. The one thing most of us do not have is a CNC, or a DP, to accurately make the holes precisely where needed and I will say I absolutely loved how the plastic looked printing on plain glass (I meant to say it's not a perfect insulator above).

Anyway this thread isn't about this it is about the Chinese clone which I can't wait to see what his findings are but I suspect they will not be positive (lets hope I am wrong).

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

There are at least two more reasons why many of us use glass beds, apart from its flatness:

1. It is cheap to replace if it gets scratched or otherwise damaged. No need to use borosilicate, ordinary float glass is entirely adequate if you have a heat spreader under it - and some people use float glass even without a heat spreader.

2. If the print sticks too well to the bed, you can remove the bed and put it in the fridge or freezer to release it. Meanwhile you can substitute another glass bed and get on with the next print.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

If it works it will be interesting. I'm not a fan of the plug-in stepper drivers. I'm a dentist and have what could be described as "mad hand skillz", but I broke too many of the little trim pots on those pololu strepper drivers before I switched to smoothieboard.

You can't beat smoothie's config and firmware update technique. It just makes sense to read the variables at boot-up.

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dc42
There are at least two more reasons why many of us use glass beds, apart from its flatness:

1. It is cheap to replace if it gets scratched or otherwise damaged. No need to use borosilicate, ordinary float glass is entirely adequate if you have a heat spreader under it - and some people use float glass even without a heat spreader.

2. If the print sticks too well to the bed, you can remove the bed and put it in the fridge or freezer to release it. Meanwhile you can substitute another glass bed and get on with the next print.

Yeah, I already had the Boro or I would have used float glass from Lowes.

I looked up the specs of flatness on Mic-6 from Alcoa (I did this last year but forgot) and they suck.

"Flatness tolerance is maintained within .015" on 1/4"-5/8" thickness and .005" on 3/4"- 4" thickness. Thermal Cycling can be performed up to 800° F under controlled conditions."

.015in is horrible and .005in is a lot better but the weight for a moving bed it would be way too heavy at 3/4in. .015in is 0.381mm which is larger than my first layer height can go (.28mm is my max) and .005in is .127mm so much better but, from what I understand, Boro, Float, Mirror, is much better flatness than those figures.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2015 02:09PM by Dark Alchemist.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

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Dark Alchemist
I looked up the specs of flatness on Mic-6 from Alcoa (I did this last year but forgot) and they suck.

"Flatness tolerance is maintained within .015" on 1/4"-5/8" thickness and .005" on 3/4"- 4" thickness. Thermal Cycling can be performed up to 800° F under controlled conditions."

.015in is horrible and .005in is a lot better but the weight for a moving bed it would be way too heavy at 3/4in. .015in is 0.381mm which is larger than my first layer height can go (.28mm is my max) and .005in is .127mm so much better but, from what I understand, Boro, Float, Mirror, is much better flatness than those figures.

Weight of the bed isn't much of an issue with a non-moving bed, as on a delta printer. My latest delta uses 300mm diameter 5mm thick aluminium, with 4mm removable float glass on top. I was lucky because the aluminium plate was already flat enough to maintain good enough thermal contact with the glass.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

The actual flatness you get is much better than the spec. I suspect that that spec is based on much larger sheets than are used in 3D printers. I put a steel ruler edge on my 1/4" plate and see very little deviation anywhere on its surface- by that I mean 10s of microns. I can't fit a sheet of paper between the ruler and the bed anywhere. I can print almost edge to edge.

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dc42

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Dark Alchemist
I looked up the specs of flatness on Mic-6 from Alcoa (I did this last year but forgot) and they suck.

"Flatness tolerance is maintained within .015" on 1/4"-5/8" thickness and .005" on 3/4"- 4" thickness. Thermal Cycling can be performed up to 800° F under controlled conditions."

.015in is horrible and .005in is a lot better but the weight for a moving bed it would be way too heavy at 3/4in. .015in is 0.381mm which is larger than my first layer height can go (.28mm is my max) and .005in is .127mm so much better but, from what I understand, Boro, Float, Mirror, is much better flatness than those figures.

Weight of the bed isn't much of an issue with a non-moving bed, as on a delta printer. My latest delta uses 300mm diameter 5mm thick aluminium, with 4mm removable float glass on top. I was lucky because the aluminium plate was already flat enough to maintain good enough thermal contact with the glass.

I agree and another reason when I make my next printer it MUST have a non movable bed. With a non movable bed you have so much more freedom.

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the_digital_dentist
The actual flatness you get is much better than the spec. I suspect that that spec is based on much larger sheets than are used in 3D printers. I put a steel ruler edge on my 1/4" plate and see very little deviation anywhere on its surface- by that I mean 10s of microns. I can't fit a sheet of paper between the ruler and the bed anywhere. I can print almost edge to edge.

All I can go by are those specs they publish.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2015 04:11PM by Dark Alchemist.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

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Dark Alchemist
All I can go by are those specs they publish.

Well then, there isn't much left to say but keep up the struggle...!

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the_digital_dentist
Glass is definitely an insulator compared to aluminum.

My 12" x 12.5" x 1/4" cast/milled aluminum tooling plate cost $30 from an industrial metals supply company.

Yup, I got a 12x12x1/4" piece of cast MIC-6 aluminum for my bed for this new printer. Just like Dark Alchemist my i3 had a 4 point leveling mechanism. I could not get it level even using a servo z-endstop doing a 100 point calibration (this was before bed-leveling was in Marlin). It always would bow even if it was level. Then I replaced it with a cheap heated aluminum bed (china!). It came with a giant bow in it and was garbage. I then bought an official Mk3-ALU aluminum heat bed. It is reasonably flat but not completely, I ended up covering it with a borosillicate 3mm sheet and it was pretty good, I got about 75% of the build surface usable. Finally I drilled a new hole in my Y carriage and switched to a 3 point axis and it was the best it had ever been. Only took me a year and lots of money to get here.

That's why I went with the MIC-6 this time. I am strapping 750W of silicone heater to the back, run by an AC SSR and I'll print right on the aluminum. @the_digital_dentist: any tips for keeping the surface scratch-and-ding-free? I am concerned about the $100 investment (heater+aluminum) degrading over time due to surface marring.

I use 5 mil x 2" Kapton tape (http://www.amazon.com/Mil-Kapton-Tape-Polyimide-yds/dp/B0076DYH9Y/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&qid=1434679210&sr=8-25&keywords=5+mil+kapton) on my bed. It is a lot tougher than the typical 1 or 2 mil stuff people use and lasts for months until I eventually gouge it or tear it while removing a print. Then I just replace the strip(s) that is damaged. Yes, it leaves fine lines where the strips meet on the bottom of the print but they are of no consequence.

I have had the extruder crash into the plate on one or two occasions and it gouged through the tape and marred the aluminum (it would have broken a piece of glass). I just removed the tape and ran an abrasive metal "eraser" over the gouged area then replaced the tape. You can see the damaged area looking at the bed but it doesn't leave any marks on the prints.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2015 10:27PM by the_digital_dentist.

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dc42
2. If the print sticks too well to the bed, you can remove the bed and put it in the fridge or freezer to release it. Meanwhile you can substitute another glass bed and get on with the next print.

Have you considered using a thin aluminum piece covered with Kapton clamped to a tooling plate bed? You'd probably get more uniform temperature and still have the ability to throw it in the freezer if your printing schedule requires immediate restart of the machine. I would expect a piece of aluminum would shrink more than a piece of glass when you chill it, so it might pop off the print at least as well glass. Maybe it wouldn't stay flat when heated...

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the_digital_dentist
I use 5 mil x 2" Kapton tape (http://www.amazon.com/Mil-Kapton-Tape-Polyimide-yds/dp/B0076DYH9Y/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&qid=1434679210&sr=8-25&keywords=5+mil+kapton) on my bed. It is a lot tougher than the typical 1 or 2 mil stuff people use and lasts for months until I eventually gouge it or tear it while removing a print. Then I just replace the strip(s) that is damaged. Yes, it leaves fine lines where the strips meet on the bottom of the print but they are of no consequence.

I have had the extruder crash into the plate on one or two occasions and it gouged through the tape and marred the aluminum (it would have broken a piece of glass). I just removed the tape and ran an abrasive metal "eraser" over the gouged area then replaced the tape. You can see the damaged area looking at the bed but it doesn't leave any marks on the prints.

See, this is where I originally was ticked at Prusa's design of the Z carriage but I understand why he did it. For the i3 when the nozzle hits the bed, mine has done this hard and soft many many many times, the nozzle can't go any lower and eventually the M5 nuts go lower than the nut holder and nothing moves from then on except for a spinning M5. For a really stable printer that is beyond acceptable but, at least in my case, it saved my ass many a time.

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the_digital_dentist

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dc42
2. If the print sticks too well to the bed, you can remove the bed and put it in the fridge or freezer to release it. Meanwhile you can substitute another glass bed and get on with the next print.

Have you considered using a thin aluminum piece covered with Kapton clamped to a tooling plate bed? You'd probably get more uniform temperature and still have the ability to throw it in the freezer if your printing schedule requires immediate restart of the machine. I would expect a piece of aluminum would shrink more than a piece of glass when you chill it, so it might pop off the print at least as well glass. Maybe it wouldn't stay flat when heated...

Question, but if I sandwiched a MK2B in between two aluminum flat plates what would happen? The 1.6mm MK2B would be flat against the top plate for sure but when it heats up then what?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2015 11:11PM by Dark Alchemist.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

I don't understand the question. Why would you sandwich it between two aluminum plates? You're only going to print on the top. Aside from increasing the mass, what would adding a plate to the underside do?

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the_digital_dentist
I don't understand the question. Why would you sandwich it between two aluminum plates? You're only going to print on the top. Aside from increasing the mass, what would adding a plate to the underside do?

Makes it flat so all of the heating side touches all of the top plate.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.