Eric's Tantillus build

Sublime can you recommend a vendor for buying more heater resistors? I'm guessing they're not likely to be found at a local electronics shop - is that true?

I am not entirely sure. I know you can get them from places like Farnel, Element14, Digikey, Mouser, etc. But I do not know the part number or specifications. I have always bought them from Hotends.com or other RepRap suppliers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2012 12:13AM by Sublime.

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Is this the correct one? [www.hotends.com]

ernchesto Wrote:
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> Is this the correct one?
> [www.hotends.com]
> oduct&path=60_69&product_id=64

Yes that is the correct one.

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Excellent. Thanks.

I've been printing off parts for another Tantillus (Plus) and they've been coming out very nicely so far .

For some reason today I've had two different parts start printing upside down. I have no clue what happened - I just slice them with my normal default settings and load them into Pronterface like usual, but for some reason the Z-axis seems to have flipped for the part coordinate system. This has happened for both the front top right corner piece and back top left corner piece.

If I open the STL files in Solidworks it looks like the coordinate system in the CAD file is fine, so it seems that somewhere in Slic3r or Pronterface I've managed to flip the Z-axis somehow. Is this possible? Anything else it might be?

That is one I have never heard of. I do know the default coordinates in solidworks are not the same as we use in 3D printing (Z-up ). They can not be flipped in the firmware or in pronterface since they start at the beginning of the gcode file and read to the bottom. This would mean it is being done in Slic3r or at the time of STL creation.

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Thanks Sublime for the response on the flipping Z coordinates. I haven't tried to fix it yet (been printing all kinds of other stuff) but if I figure it out I'll be sure to post about it.

So this morning I got a message from a Thingiverse member (about this Thing I uploaded: [www.thingiverse.com]) saying something along the lines of "Thanks for uploading your design, but the tolerances are too tight for normal 3D printers. Can you please increase the inner diameter pf the cap piece by 1mm and upload the new file so I can print a cap that will fit?"

Thought you'd like to hear that Sublime, because my cap fit easily I actually could have reduced the inner diamter on my Tantillus printed cap just a bit and it would have fit even better. Awesome.


On an off-topic note, what's your opinion on Thingiverse and Makerbot in general? There's this "Occupy Thingiverse" movement that started yesterday and as someone fairly new to the community it's interesting to see how everything is going down. I don't feel I have the knowledge background to make an informed decision about where I stand, so I'm trying to understand and vet different opinions at this point. You're a thoughtful guy so I thought I'd ask what yours is, but if you don't want to answer this part I totally understand.

The tolerance thing is why we use Slic3r 0.7.2b as well. The newer versions try and compensate for the inaccuracies of the machines by making inside holes larger and simplifying curves because most machines can't print exactly what is in the model. And then versions like 0.8.4 which add 0.1mm to all walls in X and Y which make nothing fit together unless it is designed wrong.

Since you asked about thingiverse I will tell you my opinion. I had been positing to thingiverse since there was only a few hundred items on it. Then they changed there TOS and I pulled all of my original designs down and put them in GitHub repos with links on Thingiverse and started to write [www.TangibleBytes.org] but never finished it since I am not a programmer or web developer and now it just sits waiting for someone to write the part that integrates with Git. The idea is to link Git repos with it and have it display and sort the data in the repos all in one place. This way you own the designs and the terms you have agreed to are those of GitHubs or Gitorious etc. I am still looking for help with the code. To learn more search Tangible Bytes here on the forums. Since the new terms and the fact that Makerbot is going closed source after talking about open source for so long I decided to remove all my content from Thingiverse and stop being free advertisement for their business. This currently means the community suffers but in the long run will be better off with a truly open sharing platform.

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That's very good to know about the different Slic3r versions, thanks for the explanation.


For the Thingiverse TOS, is the bothersome part the fact that Makerbot can sell a closed source product based on other people's design work and without paying royalties?

Your TangibleBytes.org site sounds like a great idea. I don't really know any web developers who could do the integration coding with the Git sites, but reading through comments today I saw at least one mention of a similar idea from a guy who sounded like he's got the skills to write the code. His username is 'wALLe' and his comment is in the thread for this original 'Occupy Thingiverse' Thing: [www.thingiverse.com]

I wonder how much it would cost to host all the content yourself, and if donations from the community would cover it? I'm guessing it would require lots of server space and bandwidth? Maybe I just haven't spent enough time with Github, but so far it seems very confusing and user-unfriendly to me. I think this is mainly due to their use of language/terms I'm unfamiliar with. I'll learn it when I absolutely have to, and their service seems great once a person learns the ropes, but they sure don't make things easy from where I'm standing.

Eric Young Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder how much it would cost to host all the
> content yourself, and if donations from the
> community would cover it? I'm guessing it would
> require lots of server space and bandwidth? Maybe
> I just haven't spent enough time with Github, but
> so far it seems very confusing and user-unfriendly
> to me. I think this is mainly due to their use of
> language/terms I'm unfamiliar with. I'll learn it
> when I absolutely have to, and their service seems
> great once a person learns the ropes, but they
> sure don't make things easy from where I'm
> standing.

Cost is not that high. I have a plan with a reliable server company that has unlimited storage and bandwidth which has never been shown to restrict anyone for too much traffic or storage. It just opens up control issues again and would not be as easy to keep open and allow the owner of the repo to control the content. It is also not as easy to write a site that can track work as well as git does already.

I agree git is hard to grasp and I still have no idea what I am doing. But once you figure out how to make a repo on your machine and can push changes from it to the main repo online you are set. You can just use the up arrows in terminal to find the last time you typed it in and never really have to remember how to do it again. All you have to do is change the commit message each time to reflect what you are doing. Sure you can commit single files and rename stuff etc. But that is all stuff you can learn when needed.

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The tracking ability of Github does seem really nice (if I understand it correctly). I think I have more learning to do before I can comprehend the open-source design control issues at hand.

Searched for 'Tangiblebytes", "tangiblebytes.org" and "Tangible Bytes" in the RepRap forums and only found one thread besides this one where it is mentioned. Is it talked about anywhere else besides these forums? I'm interested in the idea and would like to learn more.

Eric Young Wrote:
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> The tracking ability of Github does seem really
> nice (if I understand it correctly). I think I
> have more learning to do before I can comprehend
> the open-source design control issues at hand.

It basically over writes the previous files and keeps a log of what changed in that file instead of a complete copy of the old file. This allows you to retrieve any version of the file without having to have hundreds of copies of the file.

>
> Searched for 'Tangiblebytes", "tangiblebytes.org"
> and "Tangible Bytes" in the RepRap forums and only
> found one thread besides this one where it is
> mentioned. Is it talked about anywhere else
> besides these forums? I'm interested in the idea
> and would like to learn more.

This is the one from when I first started. [forums.reprap.org]
And then it was brought up again when the Reddit post about a thingiverse alternative was posted in the general section (which is most likely the one you found) the rest of them are probably discussions about ways to improve things where the name was not actually brought up. Terms like Githubiverse have been used etc.

If you would like to discuss it more we can always start a thread in a more appropriate forum here.

Now that I have Tantillus.org (second site I have ever written) and a business I am sure I will be accused of doing what makerbot has. This is another reason why I want a system where you are in control of the content and the community decides what should be ranked the highest or lowest. No paid ads, no featured things that promote a certain brand etc. Just a user run site which helps development and sharing. I even thought about using Torrents as the hosting method and it could still be an alternative way of uploading designs. This way they are out in the public domain and no one (DMCA) can take them down.

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Hey Eric, bit late to be telling you (I'm playing forum reading catch up now) this but you can get the heater resistors direct from digikey, they are the UB5 series. The 5.6ohm one is at: [www.digikey.com]

I am using the 10ohm version now, due to my power supply being a bit high, but you probably do not need to worry about this. However if you use thermal paste, make sure there are no air pockets in it. Air pockets = hot spots on resistor = burnt out resistor. I am starting to come to the conclusion this is why my first one meet its maker.....

Cheers for the CAD models as well, I'm going to try to push the updated CAD model out this weekend. Blam house reno's are arma kill for my side tracking.

As for the makerbot TOS, what m$^%$%&^*$^%*&^%$^^%$%^&$&^%$^%$^%$^%&$^%$#^%&^&*(*!!!!!!!!!!!!!

However I would say if they are now more concerned with bottom lines, Dimension/Stratsys will come knocking with their patent portfolio, and the lawyers will get a new boat not the CEO of maker bot............

Torents FTW I say, and please sublime never go down that path.

Apologies for the lagging response - crap hit the fan with a project I'm working on and I wanted to focus on that for a couple days.

@Sublime
Thanks for the link. I ended up spending many hours yesterday and today reading through various blogs/forums etc and trying to digest all that is happening with the MBI TOS/closed source Replicator2 situation.

I don't believe I have much new to add to the conversation except to say that I wish the discussions about starting a new 'Thingiverse2' weren't so dispersed across multiple blogs/forums/websites. There is a lot of thoughtful stuff being said (as well as a lot of white noise), but it's scattered across various locations and I think that a consolidation of efforts might be a prudent thing for the community as a whole. Democratizing (to some reasonable extent) the development of this 'Thingiverse2' might be helpful for such a consolidation and should be straightforward, AFAICT, by using a simple ranked voting system for all proposed website features. Also there was one very interesting suggestion about selling single shares for a "Thingiverse2 company' in order to distribute power among the community (shares would only cost $1 each and each individual can only own a single share). Not sure of the details on how that method works in practice, but it sure sounded interesting to me. One way or another I certainly agree that the new website should be, as you said, a user-run site where the self-interest of a company like MBI does not dictate what designs get visibility.

Anyways I'm willing to put in some work to develop the Thingiverse2 website if you need help, though I have almost no experience at all with web-development. If you want to start a new thread about this topic then I'll certainly contribute my thoughts as I have them, but I don't want to start one myself because I don't really feel it's my place as a RepRap noob to begin such a discussion when there are already a number of threads in the General section that are talking about it.



@WWFP
Thanks for the Digikey P/N! And for the advice about air pockets because I had no idea. I used some silicone thermal paste on my second resistor and so far it has maybe 20-30 hours of run-time without a problem.

My pleasure on the models. Think I said this before but those Herringbone gears may not be any good in practice and are really meant more as a visual aid at this point since the STL's cause SW to lag/crash. I plan to print/test them, but that's down the road a bit since Sublime's STL's print and work perfectly.

As far as the TOS goes I'm not too bothered by it myself, possibly because I still don't fully understand the implications. My open-source designs so far fall into a more fun/useful consumer-product related category and I couldn't care less if MBI prints and sells them without giving me money or even attribution. However if I do ever come up with something of value to the RepRap community then it will not get posted on Thingiverse - maybe a description and pictures but not any usable CAD files.

That's the way I'm seeing things now - if you guys see any faulty logic in my thinking please point it out.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2012 10:57PM by Eric Young.

Hey Sublime is there any reason that the lead screw could not be shortened by about 4-8mm? I'm taking a shot at designing a different XY end and it need to be a little taller, which isn't an issue from the looks of it other than hitting the lead screw.

Eric Young Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Sublime is there any reason that the lead
> screw could not be shortened by about 4-8mm? I'm
> taking a shot at designing a different XY end and
> it need to be a little taller, which isn't an
> issue from the looks of it other than hitting the
> lead screw.

No just that some motors have shorter shafts. I would personally shorten the motor shaft so you get more Z travel.

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Oh and also if you make the XY-ends taller they will no longer fit the printed machine. Have you looked at my new ones on Git?

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Good to know about the lead screw/motor shaft and Z-travel. Approx what do you think the minimum shaft length would be?

I spent some brain-juice on the XY-end last night and attached is the best I came up with. It requires M3 and M4 threaded-inserts to work (as shown in the image). I think the concept might work decently, but definitely needs testing and your eyes to take a look. It's only .5mm taller than the last version (due to the height of the M3 threaded insert on the top). I printed one and installed the threaded inserts and it looks like it's ready to test out, but I probably wont test it myself until I need to tear apart my machine for some other reason (it's still running great and I don't want to mess it up since I need it for work right now).

The idea is that the cable runs through the XY-end, wraps around the other looped end of the cable and back through the XY-end to where the socket-cap screw is. Then instead of using the cap screw to clamp down on the cable once it's fairly tight, you wrap only the loose cable end around the screw(which is not fully tightened) enough times to keep it from slacking by itself. At that point the idea is that by turning the cap screw the cable tension can be adjusted, similar to a guitar-tuning peg. There are two set-screws; one to hold the XY-end on the cross-bar and the other to clamp down on the cap screw once the desired cable tension is achieved. The center of the cap screw is offset from the cable-routing rectangular hole so that the outer surface of the screw is essentially tangent to the cable. The only problem I can see is what to do with the loose end of the cable once it's been wrapped around the screw, but this shouldn't be much of a problem to solve I'd think.

Edit: I should add there's also a potential issue of the cap screw running out of thread length(bottoming out) before the desired tension is reached, but I think this will be okay as long as the engagement length of the screw before winding the cable is dialed in by testing. Also the accessibility of the cap screw and set screw simultaneously may be an issue for the back XY-end where the Z-axis and motors are. Seems like some slots or a hole(s) near the top right of the rear panel might allow easier access if this proves to be a problem.

Added a picture of the printed XY end with inserts and screws.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2012 02:52PM by Eric Young.

Oh yeah and I was using the newer XY end design btw.

Was also thinking of putting some threaded inserts into the 4 top holes of the extruder in order to make removing/attaching the idler a little easier (since the springs would be captivated by the screws during install if they're flipped around).

Is this an okay thread to be posting this kind of stuff in? I figured since it's untested stuff it doesn't really yet belong in the add-ons/modifications thread that tjhj2 started. Maybe you or I should start a "new developments and ideas" type of thread where new concepts can be discussed?

I do like the look of the nutserts in the XY end but I am not sure how strong that part would be if printed with the openings for them in it. I think printing it solid with some dimples for the locations and then drilling them after would make for a stronger part. Also the bolt that used to hold down the cable and secure the rod now needs to go all the way through the top into the bushing location. It is what holds in the bushing now. Have a look at the updated instructions for a better understanding.

As for the extruder is concerned I think you could use them without much trouble. Although I do have those holes over size for a reason. I find it can retract much faster when you let the entire idler move from front to back a little. It seems to allow it to accelerate without having to over come the friction as soon.

Feel free to start a thread on prototype parts etc.

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Great suggestions as always. Think I'll add another insert/set screw for the bushing.

If your going with a total redesign (Plus) my suggestion would be, to swap which bars are on the top (X vs Y) vs the bottom. If the lower rod which travels the X axis were on top it would make adjustment of the rear rod much much easier. And the Y cables would be adjustable from the windows easily.

Trying to adjust the tension on the rear cable is really tough, fighting the Z platform, Y motor and X motor.... Flip and make Y the top bar set and X the lower bar set... So much easier to adjust. Unless there is something I am missing.

T

I was just futzing around with the XY end, but your suggestion sounds like a great one! From an initial glance it looks to me like it would work, but Sublime probably has a thing or two to say about this.

Actually the bars being switched sounds like a great idea and I have no idea why or how I missed that. It would make things far easier to tensioning and assembly. I am sure the metric version will be the first to have it implemented. In Blender it would be easy to make the change but a lot of work to export all the parts and convert the stls of the acrylic panels into DXF's.

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From my experience it's close to impossible to catch all the details on an initial design release. Much harder even when you're working alone.

Should be pretty straightforward to make the changes and export the STL's/DXF's from Solidworks. I can do it, just not sure when I could have it finished as there's a lot on my plate right now.

I'm having some issues with the Y-axis skipping steps (at least I think that's it - pics attached) and wondering if anyone has had similar problems or knows what the exact cause may be. Pretty sure it's mechanical as my Pololu current settings have been working fine and have not changed. There's a ridiculous amount of Vaseline on all the rods so lubrication shouldn't be it.

With the power off I rotated the Y-axis gear by hand and could feel 2-3 spots along the travel where the resistance to movement was quite a bit greater for maybe 10mm or so, then it would lessen until it hit the next high-resistance spot. This change in resistance is only really noticeable when moving the carriage from back to front - when it goes from front to back there is also a little resistance change, but not nearly so much. Next I loosened the stepper motor to isolate the Y-axis gear from the stepper motor and still had the same problem, so I don't think it's the gear meshing or a messed up stepper motor causing the problem.

My best guess is the LM8UU bearing - has anyone ever had one of these get gunked up and cause problems?

Any other ideas? Seems to me it has to be either the LM8UU bearings, printed bushings, or maybe the skate bearings holding the rods.

Thanks

I have found on one machine one time that the linear bearings did get sticky in the carriage. My solution was to lubricate the cross bars and move the axis back and forth until the bearings picked up some of the Vaseline and they started moving much easier and I have not had the issue since. When you look at the datasheets for linear bearings they do say they need lubrication even though they have no oil holes or way of getting it in after assembly. I also have one LM8uu out of 400 or so that is simply the wrong size and does not work. This was obvious during assembly so it should not be your problem unless you had one that needed to be forced on.

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Oh classic mine started doing the exact same thing on the Y axis every 4 hours or so of printing last weekend. Had a about 1.5Kg run through the machine before this as well with no major issues.

A few things seemed to have helped me out:

1. Brushed the dust out of the gears caused by them wearing in with a tooth brush. PLA dust was piling up causing high spots.

2. Retention the fishing line on both sides to be even to prevent racking, one must have slighted slipped.

3. Reset gear meshing.

4. Flated shafts where grub screws go and used wicking grade locktite on the fits.

Seemed to have helped for now.

One other major was I found a pitch error in the SW metric model between bearing holes of 0.25mm in the rear to front panel. However mine has been running fine, I would have though this should have given issues from day one. However I run heatsink/fan hacked polulo blacks in mine to get the current stable up around 1.7A to avoid skipped steps due to heat issues running of 19V. This probably masked the issue when in actual fact this was probably the issue all along. Que face + palm.