lajos' build

My Tantillus is finally working very reliably, prints beautifully, so I though I would post some info about it. As you'll see it's not complete yet (e.g. no LCD until I make one, I just refuse to pay $70 for something that costs $5 to make).

This project started some time ago, I have a CNC machine that I run using linuxcnc. I designed and built an extruder, hotend and hotend controller for it, and started printing Tantillus parts. The first spool was pink, then it ran out but had to reprint a bunch of stuff (some for low print quality as I knew nothing about 3d printing, some for changing designs).

The case was made out of 1/4" MDF, routed on the CNC. Unfortunatelly my CNC was about an inch short to make the panels, so I added a joint that runs around (all four sides panels are made out of two pieces). I also made the side tabs larger for 1/4" stock. The fcase was then glued, so the corners are actually not structural.

On the topic of corners: not sure why, but every single one I tried snapping on just broke. Not sure if this is because the laser cutter burns up some plastic so there's more tolerance. On top of modifying the corners for 1/4", I also made a set that is missing the snappy thingy.

I couldn't find a supplier for the short linear bearings and my CNC uses oilites, so I decided to replace all linear bearings and bushings with oilites. This also allowed me to use 5/16" diameter for all rods. The oilites are magical. No noise, no maintenance, self lubricating, don't care about dirt.

I went with cable z axis, works great. Eventually I would redesign the bearing slots so no jb welding is necessary.

I got two 40mm nema17s from qu-bd, and they didn't work. I ran them at 1A, they got super hot, thermal shut downs, lost steps. Same thing at 800ma. So I modified the table and now using 48mm keling nema17s, they run at around 80F with 1/32 microstepping at 1.2A.

The gears were a bit loud. The extruder I made for the CNC uses MDF spur gears, they are pretty much silent. So I made some duplex offset spur gears for the Tantillus using MDF. Gears were CNC cut, the mounts are printed on the Tantillus.

I put all the files in a fork on github: github.com/lajos/Tantillus

Thanks for all the help I was given in this forum, and huge kudos to Sublime for the design!

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2013 12:58PM by lajos.

For the LCD I have recommended this in the past as a quick cheap method. (similar to the ones I used)

Quote

[www.suntekstore.ca]
some trim pots for the brightness and contrast [www.suntekstore.ca]

The corners: The first non-printed machine I built was made out of wood and has the corners glued. It as well does not have the locks in the corners. With laser cut parts the laser can remove as much as 0.2mm making all the parts 0.1mm smaller. The corners are made for 5.9-6mm material and if they are printed on a machine that over extrudes at all they do not fit.

My Prusa has self lubricating bronze bushings and they are nice until they wear out and you end up with a little slop. With the linear bearings they have a little springiness to them that can absorb the slop.

The gears look nice. I assume you can adjust them to remove slop? Maybe they could be made to have a sprint to self tension and constantly remove the wear. I would be interested in trying a set, now I just need a way to make them (maybe print them).

Glad you like the design and thanks.

Your prints look wonderful have you made many changes to the default configs?

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Thanks for all the info. It makes sense that laser cutting removes some material and that's why my corners wouldn't snap on.

I have a couple LCDs just like the ones you linked. I have to find out if I have enough pins, or do I need to make an i2c driver for it.

I haven't thought about tensioning for the gears. I've used the same gears on my CNC extruder, and they are holding up pretty good. I sized the ones I made for the Tantillus, we'll see what happens ; ) I'll cut a set of gears for you and put them in the mail.

I'm using the configs you posted, but my nozzle is 0.4 mm so I had to make up some numbers for that. For the vases I had to turn off destring and wipe, the little heads were printed at 0.075mm layer height, for those I used your online calculator.

One more change I made was lowered prime and suck to 3mm and the destring speed to 350. I was printing small objects and there were so many destrings, the extruder chewed up my filament so bad that it started sticking in the bowden tube. At these settings I still don't see stringing and the binding issue disappeared.

lajos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a couple LCDs just like the ones you
> linked. I have to find out if I have enough pins,
> or do I need to make an i2c driver for it.

Normally you would not have enough pins on a Sanguinololu but since we do not use the X and Y endstops you have two extra pins there that should help. You may also be able to steal a few of the pins used for communication as long as you are not using that port to print.

>
> I haven't thought about tensioning for the gears.
> I've used the same gears on my CNC extruder, and
> they are holding up pretty good. I sized the ones
> I made for the Tantillus, we'll see what happens ;
> ) I'll cut a set of gears for you and put them in
> the mail.

That would be cool.

> I'm using the configs you posted, but my nozzle is
> 0.4 mm so I had to make up some numbers for that.
> For the vases I had to turn off destring and wipe,
> the little heads were printed at 0.075mm layer
> height, for those I used your online calculator.

Yeah for the vases no destring or wipe is a good idea.

I had 0.4 profiles available at one time but I do not have a machine with one so I decided not to make one that I could not test.

>
> One more change I made was lowered prime and suck
> to 3mm and the destring speed to 350. I was
> printing small objects and there were so many
> destrings, the extruder chewed up my filament so
> bad that it started sticking in the bowden tube.
> At these settings I still don't see stringing and
> the binding issue disappeared.

Lowering the speed did nothing since the actual speed is capped in the firmware to whatever speed you found worked best after following the retraction calibration [www.tantillus.org]

The length is really dependent on your filament and if you need to travel between parts. The 5.5 I have as default is really the max you can go before it causes more issues then it solves (at least for me). To solve the number of retractions Kisslicer needs to have the crowning threshold set to 3mm or more (or -1 to disable) but sadly that is a pro only option.

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

As far as the LCD, Microchip has the MCP23008 I2C port expander that lashes up nicely to a character LCD. They'll even send you a few samples if you ask nicely. I believe it's supported by Marlin, though if it's not there are some drop-in replacements for LiquidCrystal. Then you'll have more than enough IOs to dedicate to the encoder, button, and SD.

Hey guys, just thought I would chime in for a second.

If the motor is getting hot then the stepper driver is turned up too high and/or does not have adequate cooling, its not a problem with the motor. Additionally the low speeds that a Tantillus can run at should not be taxing the motor at all. Also, thermal shutdown would be caused by the stepper driver overheating not the motor. We supply a lot of 3D printer OEMs (and our own printers) with that exact motor that you purchased and aside from some shipping damage, have never had to replace one for being faulty. With that being said if you do turn down your stepper driver and it is adequately cooled we are happy to accept a return and issue a 100% refund.

Chelsea - QU-BD

Hi Chelsea-

Thanks for your message. I realized that I used the wrong wording in my post, so I fixed that.

First I want to say that I really appreciate what you guys are doing. Your store is set up great, you show stock level, and ship fast. Both orders I placed with you arrived at my door in 3 days, well packaged. I also agree with what you said in your kickstarter video: there are certain parts of the 3d printer that vendors are making a killing on (like $5 heater resistors, or $35 sdramps boards) and are hurting open source 3d printing. Thank you for your efforts to change that.

The motors didn't work on the x and y axis. Maybe it's because they do need to go faster than on the extruder. I tried driving them 800ma, 1A and 1.2A. At all those settings the motors become extremely hot, burn the fingers. Wish I had measure the temperature, but haven't. When they get so hot, about 15-20 minutes into a print, they start losing steps. I assumed the motors had thermal protection, so maybe it was not thermal shutdown, but in some cases the motors would stop stepping for seconds. I do have cooling over the drivers.

Replaced the motors, same settings, same drivers, same wires, the keling 48mm nema17s never lose any steps and run at lukewarm temperature.

I was not going to send the motors back, if you say they work in the extruders, I'll probably use them in a future project. Unless you think they were overheating because of a manufacturing defect, in which case I would take yohr offer for replacement.

Thanks-
-lajos

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2013 01:42PM by lajos.

> Microchip has the MCP23008 I2C port expander that

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look into it. I've found some other reprap LCD projects, but this chip seems to be a very elegant solution.

> following the retraction calibration

I completely missed the retraction calibration. I'll do that. I see now how the speed setting in kisslicer doesn't have an effect, but lowering prime and suck to 3mm seemed to help.

I do have the pro version of kisslicer, I wanted to contribute to help development. Other than setting crowning to 3, are there any other features of the pro version that helps the tantillus?

I cut the gears this morning. PM'd you for mailing info.

lajos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do have the pro version of kisslicer, I wanted
> to contribute to help development. Other than
> setting crowning to 3, are there any other
> features of the pro version that helps the
> tantillus?

The oversample resolution can help with defects that show up from incorrect models as well as allow you to use the full potential of Tantillus's resolution at the cost of slicing speed and memory. If the resolution is too high and you try and print at really high speeds you can also cause the buffer in Marlin to empty which causes pauses in the print.

PM'ing now

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

We actually use them on our MBE extruders and the Y axis and Z axis of our Revolution printers which move around quite quickly so they do allow quite rapid movement over long periods of time.

Chelsea - QU-BD

I looked at the Revolution (looks aswesome and the price is great, hope it will do well), and I think we are comparing apples and oranges. You have two steppers per axis, I have one. You have the stepper open air, mounted to a large block of aluminum which probably acts as a heat sink, mine is pretty well enclosed mounted to insulating material (mdf).

I'm using an azteeg x1 with ti suresteprs (purchased from you), current correctly set (current = ref voltage*2), suresteprs heatsinked with a fan blowing on them. Everything being equal the 40mm motor runs super hot (I'd guess over 150F), the 48mm lukewarm (measured 90F). The 40mm motor loses steps, the 48mm motor doesn't miss a beat.

Look, I'm not telling you that the 40mm motors are junk. They must work great in the Revolution. They just doesn't work in my printer. So being on the Tantillus forum, I think it's important for others to know that when they go to your site to order the motors, they should select the 48mm ones, not the 40mms because those don't work in at least one Tantillus. And this is the only reason I brought it up.

I wanted the 40mms to work. The motors look top notch manufactured, and they fit my beautiful machined acrylic print table. But I spent days trying to figure out why steps were getting lost, and when I replaced the motors (and dremeled my print tables for the 48mms to fit), the lost steps disappeared. Attached is the best print I could get with the small motors at a low acceleration (3000mm/s2). All looks beautiful except the layer shifts. Now I run the 48mms at 1.2A, 1/32microstep, 8000mm/s2 acceleration with no issues.

If you think the 40mms are defective, I can send them back. If you want to replace them with 48mm ones, I'll pay the shipping and difference and send them back.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2013 08:18PM by lajos.

I do believe that os1r1s used the qu-bd 40mm steppers in his tantillus.