First Layer problems

I am encountering a problem with my first layer. I even know how to classify this problem, so maybe you guys can help me. Attached are some pictures of the first layer of one of my prints.

Thanks,
Nigel

Looking at your skirt (initial outline) it looks like you have an adhesion problem.

What material are you printing with and what temperature do you have your first layer bed temperature? What temperature does it read on top of the glass?

Things to double-check:
Did you calibrate your E_STEPS_PER_MM as per the manual?
Did you level the bed as per the manual?
Did the android print ok?
Have you measured that the first layer skirt height matches what you set in your slicer settings? (i.e. is it squished down enough?)
What layer height and extrusion width are you using?

Looking at your skirt (initial outline) it looks like you have an adhesion problem.

What material are you printing with and what temperature do you have your first layer bed temperature? What temperature does it read on top of the glass?

Things to double-check:
Did you calibrate your E_STEPS_PER_MM as per the manual?
Did you level the bed as per the manual?
Did the android print ok?
Have you measured that the first layer skirt height matches what you set in your slicer settings? (i.e. is it squished down enough?)
What layer height and extrusion width are you using?

I kinda figured out it was an adhesion problem, but I'm still not sure how to correct it. My android did print correctly. I did adjust my E_STEPS_PER_mm when I was using the included green PLA. I have switched to a white PLA. I adjusted the filament diameter in slic3r. I have leveled the bed, and the thickness is mostly consistent across the bed. The android did print well, but I have changed a few settings.
I've been measuring the layer height and trying to adjust it. I keep adjusting the height I cant seem to get it perfect, but this was pretty close at 0.27-0.29mm.
The first brim sticks great, but as soon as a second brim is added, or the exterior perimeter is added, the adhesion is lost.
I am printing with a .3mm first layer height and then .2mm. The extrusion width is set to %200 (the default in slic3r).

Thanks,
Nigel

If your layer heights and extrusion widths are coming out correctly then it should be squishing down enough material to stick together, yet not cause it to be pulled up by subsequent moves over the top.

I guess you can try the usual things first; cleaning the glass with something (vinegar seems to be giving the best consistent results on this forum) and if that doesn't work then smearing a mist of 10% solution of PVA onto the bed prior to a print. Some people can print on clean glass, others need to help it along by applying some adhesive coating. YMMV

Secondly just check that the glass is up above glass transition temperature for the first layer - about 70C or so should be fine. Your first print is quite big, so it might be that the centre of your bed is warmer than the edges, which if cooler than Tg then it may explain why the android prints better.

There's probably a thread with common first print problems in this forum somewhere, cos I feel like this isn't the first time I've typed this...

I am having a similar problem. Leveled the bed, calculated e-steps. I managed a few succesful prints even, but now even the skirt doesn't adhere to the bed. It mostly happens at corners, where the extruder makes a turn, it ends up extruding extra plastic it looks like to me, and then the plastic doesn't stick. Is this just a clean the bed issue? as mentioned above? (I can try hairspray, or cleaning with vinegar) So far I have used a bed temperature of 60 I could up it to 70 if that would help. On the android prints where I get the first layer down it prints fairly well. I did manage to slice and print the 5mm calibration cube (but the cubes measure 5.2mm so I have something set wrong I think)

So is this more likely an extrusion e-steeps issue? On the skirt of the last successful print I got. on the edges it measures .2mm but the corners are twice that at .4mm.

I got mine mostly working. Raising the bed temp definitely helped; It got me to the point I could print (although not without warping). I will be getting a temperature sensor by about Wednesday, so I can accurately measure the temperature of the bed across the surface. I am also going to try PVA glue soon. The print I did earlier today had warping on 2/3 pieces, but only slightly on one. That was just using glass cleaned with acetone.
Dave: Try checking the height of your first layer. (software and actual). I had previously had problems with my z-axis height. You might want to check that.

--Nigel

Lidl (UK) had laser temperature sensors for £20 last week, they may still have stock. I use something similar to get an idea of my bed temperatures on top of the glass (they vary by up to 20C compared with the thermistor readings!)

I found that the kit PLA from Faberdashery stuck very well on clean glass (didn't even need to use acetone) but when I switched to a cheaper brand it wouldn't stick at all without some kind of help - 10% PVA solution did the trick eventually after much messing around. I have a rainbow back from Faberdashery and have found that the temperature requirements for the different colours varies quite a bit so you might need to just keep trying different combinations. This is where the filament-specific profiles of Slic3r are really handy, because you can tweak a setting and save it independently of your other settings.

@Dave: I wouldn't worry about the 5.2mm vs 5mm just yet. Get the layers squished down just right with the right amount of material first, then look at why your dimensions might be off later. If your corners are twice as high as your edges then that'll definitely be a problem! When you successfully printed the android, was the bottom of it smooth with maybe just some slight ridges that you can detect with your fingernail, or could you see the lines very well defined?

Double-check the E_STEPS_PER_MM by measuring and marking a point 100mm above the top of the extruder and telling it to extrude that much. The mark should be exact as far as the eye can tell; if it isn't then either your bolt is slipping or the firmware has a different idea of how much filament it is feeding from your slicing software.

Quote
QuackingPlums
I found that the kit PLA from Faberdashery stuck very well on clean glass (didn't even need to use acetone) but when I switched to a cheaper brand it wouldn't stick at all without some kind of help - 10% PVA solution did the trick eventually after much messing around.

This was my experience exactly! I almost pulled out what little hair I have. The green kit Faberdashery PLA sticks very well but when I started buying other brands and colors I fought like crazy to get them to stick to the bare glass. I was cleaning the glass precisely the same way. All PLA filament is not the same: not even close. Every new 3D printer should be aware of this before they start making. Some manufacturers must cut PLA with something to make theirs cheaper. The additives for color must affect adhesion too. [Clear Faberdashery PLA stuck savagely to the bare glass cleaned with vinegar. I could barely chip the part off with a chisel even when the part was cool! I was worried I would not get it off. LOL] It seems green coloring doesn't overly negatively affect PLA adhesion.

Now I use the PVA coating and it works very well. Am still looking for locally sourced for PLA that sticks consistently to bare glass. Being across the pond from England means Faberdashery filament shipping is not cheap and the pound is so strong the filament becomes quite costly.

I wonder why some chemist hasn't figured out exactly which compound to add to PLA to make it stick perfectly to glass?

I think PLA naturally sticks to glass as long as there is no grease. Some glossy pigments seem to be greasy.

Not sure about Canada but I believe Faberdashery have resellers in the US.

You can also print PLA onto Kapton tape or PET tape. RepRapPro use Kapton on their production machines to print PLA. I asked them why they didn't use bare glass and they said kapton doesn't need such scrupulous cleaning so they found it more reliable for production.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

Thanks for the additional tips. I got a laser temperature sensor and found the top of my bed to be about 10 degrees less than what my printer reported, so with my next print I will try raising the bed temp.
I will double check my E_STEPS_PER_MM.
If my next print doesn't go well, then I will try a 10% PVA solution.
I agree with the above that the green Faberdashery PLA seemed to work better. I did some research and found that last year Faberdashery did have a reseller in the US, but they no longer do.

Yes the top temperature is 10-15 degrees lower than the thermistor but the bed temperature in the settings is set high to compensate. The glass transition temperature of PLA is about 55C, so it needs to be a bit lower than that in order for the bottom layers of the print to become solid.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

legonigel,
I'm new to all this so take what I say for what it's worth.

I had EXACTLY the same issue as you, even the striations of the first layer on the bed looked verbatim like mine did, Vinegar helped immensely but I discovered by accident that 50% ethanol is the best for me. I'm now printing all layers including the first (faberdashery PLA) at 180c, 55c bed temp as reported by the thermistor (I presume 10c less than the reported at the surface) and at the end of the print the parts are a PITA to remove even at 20c.

The difference is night and day. I was trying higher and higher temps trying to get the stuff to adhere but I was barking up the wrong tree.
Hope this helps.
D
:-)