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Duet 0.6 died (ADC)

Posted by Treito 
Duet 0.6 died (ADC)
September 21, 2015 06:37AM
Hello,

it seems to be a terrible coincidence. The second board - my replacement - died. The ADC channels are not working anymore and the ATSAM is getting hot. The board worked fine for two months except for the extruder temperature - it was not as stable as the bed temperature or like my old board.
It seems that I have had bad luck as I did not maintain anything since the board was plugged in.
It happened as I try to print a part in ABS. The ABS warped and the head crushed into the part and was so stopped. I quit the print and tried to rehome all axis and it was not working anymore. Also fatal is that the hotend temperature stays at 160°C the bed temperature at 38°C. The proximity sensor stays at 318-320.
As all was connected I measured 2.2V instead of 3.3V. With all disconnected I can measure the 3.3V.
The only thing I did was that I flashed firmware 1.90k-dc42 the day as it appeared. Nothing else. I should mention that the board was the 1k-version from Replikeo.
I triple checked all electrical connections to be 100% sure that there is no fault at my printer. The hotend is powered with a seperate cable. The common connectors at the hotend is fully intact. I can measure the thermistor with 105 kOhms and there was no further connection. I also tested the bed thermistor and if it has connection to the pin next to it.
So it seems that I had really bad luck. Or is there anything else?
Does anybody have experiences with the support of Replikeo?
After all I decided that my brand new 4k7 board will not get in contact with my Ormerod MK1. Luckily I could reprint one broken part of my Ormerod MK2. I am still missing some parts but I should have enough to be able to commission the printer. The missing parts are only for "design". I hope so.
But I have doubt of course. I am considering to rebuild my MK1. Replace the power supply with a 12V only PS like the MK2. I am also considering replacing the heated bed (to get rid of the flatband cable) and even the hotend.
I know that is paranoid but what would you do if you have two dead Duet boards at a period of time of 3 months even if this is a bad coincidence?
I am getting frustrated and I lost my fun at the Ormerod, seriously.
Before I forget it: I did replace something at my Ormerod MK1: The pneumatic fitting was broken some weeks ago. Maybe this is the cause for my Duet failure?

Kind regards,

Sven

P.S.: I was unsure if I should post this as I know that someone will doubt that this happened during the printing and it would be my fault, but I am really sure that this is not. Electrical engineering is part of my profession so I do know how to handle a Duet board and I only was printing as my focus is on my new MK2 and the MK1 should only be used to print. No maintenance and no rebuilds.


Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.
Re: Duet 0.6 died (ADC)
September 21, 2015 07:17AM
Sorry to hear of your misfortune.

The usual cause of Duets failing with the MCU overheating is believed to be short circuits between the 12V circuitry and the Z probe or thermistor circuitry. Possible ways this can happen include:

1. The original Ormerod 1 instructions did not make it clear which way round the aluminium heat spreader plate should be fitted. This led to some people fitting it upside down, causing it to contact one of the heated bed terminals and be at +12V. If the proximity sensor crashes into the bed fixing clips, it could cause 12V to be fed into the proximity sensor input.

2. When connecting the hot end heater loom to the Duet 0.6, if you plug it in 1 or 2 positions offset to the right, you will feed +12V into the thermistor input.

3. If you miswire the 6-pin hot end connector, you may feed 12V into the thermistor input.

I wonder if your head crash could have caused a short circuit somewhere in the head wiring?

I have a theory about another possible mechanism for this kind of failure, but no evidence to support it yet:

1. The 5V switching regulator is faulty when you receive the board, causing it to feed 12V through to the 5V rail. [As Replikeo supplies you with an external 5V regulator, they may not bother to test the switching regulator.]

2. This doesn't immediately cause the Duet to fail, because very little is powered from +5V, and most of the things that are can take +12V.

3. However, feeding 12V into the 3.3V regulator will cause it to overheat.

4. Eventually, the 3.3V regulator fails in such a way as to put more than 3.3V on the 3.3V rail.

5. The mcu then fails in a low-resistance state, pulling the 3.3V rail down again.

Some while ago I asked RepRapPro whether the number of failed boards with burned mcus had gone down with the introduction of the external 5V regulator, but they didn't respond. If your board failed in this way, you will find that the 5V rail is at nearly 12V.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2015 07:18AM by dc42.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Duet 0.6 died (ADC)
September 21, 2015 08:02AM
Quote
dc42
I wonder if your head crash could have caused a short circuit somewhere in the head wiring?

That is what I have asked myself, too, but how? The cables are totally intact and I have a direct connection to the 6-pin-connector as the solely wire connectors nearly burnt my Ormerod. And from the 6-pin connectors the cables are seperated so I have a cable with 4 wires for the heater and another one for the thermistor and the fan.
So I am absolutely sure that there was a fault on the Duet.
As I used it for the MK1 I did not use the 5V regulator PCB

Quote
dc42
The usual cause of Duets failing with the MCU overheating is believed to be short circuits between the 12V circuitry and the Z probe or thermistor circuitry. Possible ways this can happen include:

1. The original Ormerod 1 instructions did not make it clear which way round the aluminium heat spreader plate should be fitted. This led to some people fitting it upside down, causing it to contact one of the heated bed terminals and be at +12V. If the proximity sensor crashes into the bed fixing clips, it could cause 12V to be fed into the proximity sensor input.

2. When connecting the hot end heater loom to the Duet 0.6, if you plug it in 1 or 2 positions offset to the right, you will feed +12V into the thermistor input.

3. If you miswire the 6-pin hot end connector, you may feed 12V into the thermistor input.

This could not be the case as the board nearly ran 3 months and I did not do anything of the above points.

Quote
dc42
1. The 5V switching regulator is faulty when you receive the board, causing it to feed 12V through to the 5V rail. [As Replikeo supplies you with an external 5V regulator, they may not bother to test the switching regulator.]

2. This doesn't immediately cause the Duet to fail, because very little is powered from +5V, and most of the things that are can take +12V.

I achieved about 200m printing material, I guess. Maybe more or less. If the 12V would have been fed into the 5V rail may USB port may have been blown also but it works.

Quote
dc42
3. However, feeding 12V into the 3.3V regulator will cause it to overheat.

4. Eventually, the 3.3V regulator fails in such a way as to put more than 3.3V on the 3.3V rail.

According to the measurements it seems to be intact.

Quote
dc42
1. The original Ormerod 1 instructions did not make it clear which way round the aluminium heat spreader plate should be fitted. This led to some people fitting it upside down, causing it to contact one of the heated bed terminals and be at +12V. If the proximity sensor crashes into the bed fixing clips, it could cause 12V to be fed into the proximity sensor input.

It worked for 1.5 year for now and I am working as Engineer. The plate is not flipped and the connectors are isolated. The head did not crash into the bed clips. It crashed sometimes before but the clips are black and the also have no connection to the aluminium because of the card board and the paint also prevents an electrical connection. So Kapton tape on the connectors, the Spreader is not flipped and the clamps are painted.

Quote
dc42
2. When connecting the hot end heater loom to the Duet 0.6, if you plug it in 1 or 2 positions offset to the right, you will feed +12V into the thermistor input.

As it uses the white connetors it is hard to do so. Even though I still use the black connectors for the Ormerod MK1 as I did not want to exchange the connectors. So I triple checked this during commissioning and it worked for nearly three months. I did not touch the board except for the Erase and Reset buttons as I flashed your firmware.

Quote
dc42
3. If you miswire the 6-pin hot end connector, you may feed 12V into the thermistor input.

I triple checked this. Everything was okay and worked for months.


Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.
Re: Duet 0.6 died (ADC)
September 21, 2015 10:59AM
So you have measured the 5V rail on the expansion connector, and it still reads 5V?



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Duet 0.6 died (ADC)
September 21, 2015 11:04AM
I disconnected the 12V rail already so the supply only is available from USB so that does not make any sense anymore. But I connected the USB connector as I supplied 12V also. If there had been a connection my PC connector would have blown.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2015 11:07AM by Treito.


Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.
Re: Duet 0.6 died (ADC)
September 21, 2015 12:13PM
Quote
Treito
I disconnected the 12V rail already so the supply only is available from USB so that does not make any sense anymore. But I connected the USB connector as I supplied 12V also. If there had been a connection my PC connector would have blown.

Not necessarily, the Duet USB power is current limited with an SP2525A I.C. and the PC will also have protection. Anything that acts like a diode in the USB power line would prevent the 12V getting to the PC's 5V supply with no symptoms.

Dave
Re: Duet 0.6 died (ADC)
September 21, 2015 01:17PM
Maybe I can connect my labory power supply to the Duet an test it but this can take a while as I have to look for the 5V rail for example.
Can there be a problem with the ATX power supply? It is a PC power supply. As I have no load on the 5V rail or the 3.3V rail? Can I get issues that may affect or destroy the Duet after a longer while?
I am really considering to convert my MK1 to a MK2 as soon as my new printer runs. I planned it for tomorrow. Today I changed the bed support. Probably this is the cause. I got cursed because I did not finish the new one or the old one is jealous. Who knows. But I am still thinking that I only had bad luck. What else?
So I just tested it. I get 4.9V. The Duet takes 0.36 Amps. If I remove the 5V-jumper the current drops to 0.02 Amps. I do not know if this is okay, but the voltage regulator seems to work. I only connected the 12V DC power supply.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2015 01:36PM by Treito.


Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.
Re: Duet 0.6 died (ADC)
September 21, 2015 02:01PM
Quote
Treito
...Can there be a problem with the ATX power supply? It is a PC power supply...

I had problems with sparks flying until I found out the ATX enclosure was grounded, was mounted directly on the Y-extrusion, Y-rib and Y-cross rib is metal, shorted the front bed adjusting screw against the heatbed LED while fumbling with a allen key

Erik
Re: Duet 0.6 died (ADC)
September 21, 2015 02:16PM
Hello Eric,

bad to hear but I did not to anything in such kind of way. As Ian told me that you can see a previously short circuit on the board I took a picture of the broken board (BTW I love my new compact digicam) and everything is okay. No coil is damaged or any resistor.
The power supply was standing far away from the printer.
As you cannot locate any damaged parts on the board I still believe that the Duet was faulty and not more.
I always have such kind of bad luck. It is like I am a magnet for bad things in life.
For example I tried to get a parking ticket. It was printed but it was catched by the flap directly on the top. I was parking there regularly once a month for several years and I always got a ticket. Now I was forced to use the parking disc. Naturally I forgot to take a picture. Bad fault. Another person is parking at the same parking lot without getting a ticket (not as regularly as me) and nothing happens so far. But me I got a ticket for false parking. Normally I did everything correct but I had no evidence that my ticket was catched so I had to pay. If I had taken a picture I would not have to pay) That is me.

Kind regards,

Sven


Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.
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