Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry August 12, 2018 09:26AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 155 |
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry August 12, 2018 09:34AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 1,007 |
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JoergS5
Quote
MKSA
The advantage of having only one motor is that you don't need to "de-rack" and provided your machine is of a good design, rigid, properly constrained, accounts for thermal expansion, built with the proper components, you don't even need z-probing/auto bed leveling.
... By calibrate I mean small steppers who change two Z parameters and fix it (fixing by using worm drives e.g.).
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry August 12, 2018 09:49AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 155 |
Quote
MKSA
Quote
JoergS5
Quote
MKSA
The advantage of having only one motor is that you don't need to "de-rack" and provided your machine is of a good design, rigid, properly constrained, accounts for thermal expansion, built with the proper components, you don't even need z-probing/auto bed leveling.
... By calibrate I mean small steppers who change two Z parameters and fix it (fixing by using worm drives e.g.).
Seriously ?
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry August 12, 2018 10:36AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 1,007 |
Quote
JoergS5
Quote
MKSA
Quote
JoergS5
Quote
MKSA
The advantage of having only one motor is that you don't need to "de-rack" and provided your machine is of a good design, rigid, properly constrained, accounts for thermal expansion, built with the proper components, you don't even need z-probing/auto bed leveling.
... By calibrate I mean small steppers who change two Z parameters and fix it (fixing by using worm drives e.g.).
Seriously ?
Yes, seriously. This was the idea: a separate process outside of the 3d printer controller (an Arduino with a CNC board):
Measure deviation and then calibrate: one point of Z is fixed, the second is the horizontal level to the other end of the bed (pitch adjuster), the other to the pivot point (roll adjuster), so you need two corrections. Align horizontally. After aligning the XY horizontally, you have the same distance of the nozzle to print bed.
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry August 12, 2018 10:45AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 155 |
Quote
MKSA
Quote
JoergS5
Quote
MKSA
Quote
JoergS5
Quote
MKSA
The advantage of having only one motor is that you don't need to "de-rack" and provided your machine is of a good design, rigid, properly constrained, accounts for thermal expansion, built with the proper components, you don't even need z-probing/auto bed leveling.
... By calibrate I mean small steppers who change two Z parameters and fix it (fixing by using worm drives e.g.).
Seriously ?
Yes, seriously. This was the idea: a separate process outside of the 3d printer controller (an Arduino with a CNC board):
Measure deviation and then calibrate: one point of Z is fixed, the second is the horizontal level to the other end of the bed (pitch adjuster), the other to the pivot point (roll adjuster), so you need two corrections. Align horizontally. After aligning the XY horizontally, you have the same distance of the nozzle to print bed.
So please do a prototype
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry August 12, 2018 12:29PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 134 |
It does not require frequent adjustments, one of them (the one which is not moving around) had not required bed leveling in months, does not require calibration of any kind with the exclusion of print parameters. It had lost 2 screws in its lifespan of 6 months because I did not use thread locker. And Z works well, and Yes not all 20 bearings bearing and Yes they suppose to give some play and not get jammed. You are not paying attention, look at vertical walls of calibration cubes above one more time. The funniest thing is - it works. I had seen a lot of amazed people who checked print quality coming out of this printer at ERRF.Quote
MKSA
If your machine requires frequent adjustments, it is normal due to the way it is built. Looking at just the Z axis; 4 lead screws, 4 guides and many bearings ... the assembly must be flexible as there is NO WAY to align all this perfectly thus a rigid set up would irremediably bind. Even, I wonder how many bearings are really bearing !
Anyway.
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry August 12, 2018 01:13PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 155 |
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry August 12, 2018 01:20PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 134 |
I may argue that Airwolf or Ultimaker have printed or plastic parts in them. Prusa is printed and considered to be one of the best printers.Quote
the_digital_dentist
Eliminating adjustments is an achievable goal, just not the way you're building the printers.
TLDR: it isn't impossible to eliminate adjustments, but I don't think you can do it if you use printed plastic joints in the frame structure, motor mounts, linear bearings, etc.
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry August 12, 2018 01:21PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 134 |
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry August 12, 2018 01:42PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 155 |
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry August 12, 2018 02:14PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 134 |
It was more by intuition.Quote
JoergS5
Have you found the idea of diagonal struts by chance or by mathematical calculation?
Quote
JoergS5
I am still searching for a good freeware simulation program to optimize struts construction, especially in respect of vibration effects (how to minimize stepper vibrations e.g.). The program Z88 is a good program in this direction, but has still some limitations at multipart and dynamic calculations.
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry August 12, 2018 03:58PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 155 |
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry August 13, 2018 02:36AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 1,007 |
Quote
piper3d
It does not require frequent adjustments, one of them (the one which is not moving around) had not required bed leveling in months, does not require calibration of any kind with the exclusion of print parameters. It had lost 2 screws in its lifespan of 6 months because I did not use thread locker. And Z works well, and Yes not all 20 bearings bearing and Yes they suppose to give some play and not get jammed. You are not paying attention, look at vertical walls of calibration cubes above one more time. The funniest thing is - it works. I had seen a lot of amazed people who checked print quality coming out of this printer at ERRF.Quote
MKSA
If your machine requires frequent adjustments, it is normal due to the way it is built. Looking at just the Z axis; 4 lead screws, 4 guides and many bearings ... the assembly must be flexible as there is NO WAY to align all this perfectly thus a rigid set up would irremediably bind. Even, I wonder how many bearings are really bearing !
Anyway.
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry August 13, 2018 02:43AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 1,007 |
Quote
JoergS5
Have you found the idea of diagonal struts by chance or by mathematical calculation?
I am still searching for a good freeware simulation program to optimize struts construction, especially in respect of vibration effects (how to minimize stepper vibrations e.g.). The program Z88 is a good program in this direction, but has still some limitations at multipart and dynamic calculations.
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry August 13, 2018 09:13PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 134 |
I was referring to 8 cubic meter 3d printers built by my friendQuote
MKSA
I was referring to all the adjustments you mentioned you have to do after moving your printer a few fractions of a furlong.
Sorry, I do not understand your statement.Quote
MKSA
If there are bearings that don't touch the tube, then they are of no use. In fact half of the Z bearing assemblies (which are not very rigid and luckily as the system would bind), half of the lead screws, 3 motors are not required.
Several reasons: to get higher speed, compactness, weight.Quote
MKSA
Besides, for the X Y, you departed from this kind of assembly. You used it for your Prusa inspired machine. Why ?
Sometimes it is easier, less time consuming, and cheaper to add motors than build custom motion transfer mechanism for a single motor 3 lead screws. Plus it opens a possibility to achieve auto squaring/cubing which is currently is used in some Prusa like machines with 2 independent Z motors.Quote
MKSA
If I intervened it is because of NathanaelXYZ intervention regarding this great idea of using FOUR Z motors. This is one "non sense" too much.
Thank you for your critical reviews.Quote
MKSA
PS: This is my last post on this subject.
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry September 06, 2018 09:07PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 134 |
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry September 07, 2018 12:37AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 5,232 |
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry September 07, 2018 01:29AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 134 |
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry September 24, 2018 06:30PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 134 |
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry September 26, 2018 11:53PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 134 |
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry December 13, 2018 01:16PM |
Admin Registered: 16 years ago Posts: 1,470 |
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Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry December 15, 2018 09:26PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 134 |
Skewing is regulated by belts tension in coreXY. To square my gantry I am moving X carriage to the front and tension belts so distance from Y crriages on the left and right sides to mounts holding pooleys is the same (my system is simmetrical and Y carriages are touching rod holders in this position)Quote
NewPerfection
but skewing in the prints was a big problem
This is great!Quote
NewPerfection
I have enough conduit to build a design like this, and I've been itching to make a new printer, this might be what I'm looking for!
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry April 05, 2019 12:11AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 134 |
Re: Presenting Piper 2 - CoreXY on EMT conduit frame Single Dual extruder moving gantry May 06, 2019 09:16AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 148 |