Belt width
February 26, 2019 05:03AM
E3D (and many others) sells Gates belt/pulleys in several sizes: typical 6mm, 9mm and 12mm, among others. As I undesrtand, the wider the belt, the less the (belt-induced) ghosting. ¿Is there any downside to go all the way up with 12mm belts/pulleys?
Re: Belt width
February 26, 2019 07:04AM
Every time a motor turns, it has to move the entire length of the belt and all the pulleys that the belt rides on, as well as the extruder carriage and Y axis. Wider belt is a little heavier, and the pulleys for it are heavier. It's also harder to find and costs a bit more. 6 and 9/10mm are readily available and more than adequate.

Ringing is not primarily a function of belt stretch. You won't cure a ringing problem by using a wider belt. Ringing is a complex phenomenon that is a combo of moving mass, acceleration, jerk, speed, motor torque, and a little bit of belt stretch.

Don't use steel core belt for the XY stage.


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: Belt width
February 26, 2019 07:40AM
Comparing prices, from E3D store,

Gates (fiber reinforced) belt is, each 100mm long:
6mm -> 0.82€
9mm -> 1.24€
12mm -> 1.64€

Regarding pulleys, a tipical 20 tooth gates-compatible pulley is:
6mm -> 5.79€
9mm -> 6.16€
12mm -> 6.56€

Idlers (smooth):
6mm -> 7.52€
9mm -> 7.80€
12mm -> 7.93€

Idlers (toothed):
6mm -> 7.93€
9mm -> 7.39€
12mm -> 7.12€


Once I've decided to go 9mm belt, going all the way up to 12mm belt wouldn't be much more expensive overall, and since I will be ordering the hotend from them, shipping cost are already assumed. That's why I thought about using 12mm, if the change is for the better.

I know ringing is not just belt's fault, not even the worst offender, but since I have plenty of time for this build I wanted to make things as right as I'm able to. I want to have the lightest gantry I'm able to, choose the steppers with best specs (torque, induction, rotor inertia...), and so on. I'm planning a whole year for the design phase.

BTW, in my current setup (cartesian Prusa style) the single most effective thing to reduce ringing was a set of rubber chunks under the printer. It seems than the moving bed was making vibrate the whole assembly and even the table it was in. Now with 1000mm/s2 acceleration - 0.075dev at 60mm/s I can barely see ringing with black shiny filament. Before the rubber feet, not even 700mm/s2 - 0.02dev at 40mm/s as enough to stop ringing. Other things that contributed were setting the TMC2100 drivers to stealthChop* and upping the current a bit.

* Since I went to 24V for the steppers, stealthChop has been very reliable. With 12V I could not make it stop loosing steps.
Re: Belt width
February 26, 2019 09:28AM
Quote
EgonVLC
...
BTW, in my current setup (cartesian Prusa style) the single most effective thing to reduce ringing was a set of rubber chunks under the printer. It seems than the moving bed was making vibrate the whole assembly and even the table it was in. Now with 1000mm/s2 acceleration - 0.075dev at 60mm/s I can barely see ringing with black shiny filament. Before the rubber feet, not even 700mm/s2 - 0.02dev at 40mm/s as enough to stop ringing. Other things that contributed were setting the TMC2100 drivers to stealthChop* and upping the current a bit.

* Since I went to 24V for the steppers, stealthChop has been very reliable. With 12V I could not make it stop loosing steps.

On a Prusa as the bed moves, one major cause is the stupid way the bed is mounted on 4 springs !


"A comical prototype doesn't mean a dumb idea is possible" (Thunderf00t)
Re: Belt width
February 26, 2019 09:34AM
Quote
MKSA
On a Prusa as the bed moves, one major cause is the stupid way the bed is mounted on 4 springs !

Things I already learn with my current setup:

- DO NOT move the bed back and forth --> That's why I wanted to try CoreXY, but I fear the looong belts
- DO NOT use 4 screws for bed leveling --> Why on earth they use 4 in the original design? I mean, you can do a Prusa-style with 3 screws for bed leveling...
Re: Belt width
February 26, 2019 09:34AM
Quote
EgonVLC
...
BTW, in my current setup (cartesian Prusa style) the single most effective thing to reduce ringing was a set of rubber chunks under the printer. It seems than the moving bed was making vibrate the whole assembly and even the table it was in. Now with 1000mm/s2 acceleration - 0.075dev at 60mm/s I can barely see ringing with black shiny filament. Before the rubber feet, not even 700mm/s2 - 0.02dev at 40mm/s as enough to stop ringing. Other things that contributed were setting the TMC2100 drivers to stealthChop* and upping the current a bit.

* Since I went to 24V for the steppers, stealthChop has been very reliable. With 12V I could not make it stop loosing steps.

On a Prusa as the bed moves, one major cause is the stupid way the bed is mounted on 4 springs !
Mine is on a kinematic mount. No spring and most of the ringing is gone.


"A comical prototype doesn't mean a dumb idea is possible" (Thunderf00t)
Re: Belt width
February 26, 2019 09:36AM
Quote
MKSA
On a Prusa as the bed moves, one major cause is the stupid way the bed is mounted on 4 springs !
Mine is on a kinematic mount. No spring and most of the ringing is gone.

Indeed... I have my springs real tight, but always thought that the springs themselves were not a good idea when you have to move the bed.
Re: Belt width
March 01, 2019 01:00AM
If you're really concerned about belts, do some research on the gates belts and how they are used in industrial applications. You'll quickly see that the 6mm belts are more than adequate for even the most demanding 3D printing. They are the most appropriate choice. Wider isn't necessarily better. It's the application requirements that dictates the appropriate belt spec. Go with 6mm.
Re: Belt width
March 01, 2019 02:03AM
Quote
phaedrux
If you're really concerned about belts, do some research on the gates belts and how they are used in industrial applications. You'll quickly see that the 6mm belts are more than adequate for even the most demanding 3D printing. They are the most appropriate choice. Wider isn't necessarily better. It's the application requirements that dictates the appropriate belt spec. Go with 6mm.

Do you have any link I can read? It's a very interesting topic...
Re: Belt width
March 01, 2019 11:39AM
There's some good info here: [sdp-si.com]
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