Kisslicer number of perimeters in thin wall sections

I noticed something a bit weird today which may or may not be causing some adhesion problems I am experiencing (PLA on glass bed @ 60 degrees). When I slice a 3mm thick walled object with an extrusion width of 0.5mm (0.35mm nozzle, 0.2mm layer height, number of loops = 3) kisslicer generates 4 perimeters (with no fill) instead of what I assumed should be 6 perimeters. Any ideas what could be causing this, or is this the expected behaviour? I would have posted this over at the Kisslicer forums but they have been down for maintenance for days. Thanks.

Dan

The Kisslicer forum is unlikely to ever be back up.

The purple lines are what Kisslicer calls "crowning" (term comes from the visualization of the data on a height map or something). It should be called adaptive extrusion width as it will extrude anywhere from 1/2 to 1-1/2 times the set extrusion width to fill in areas like that as well as for walls that can be made a single wall thickness.

Edit: also how do you figure there is room in that image for more paths? Are you sure the wall is actually 3mm thick?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2014 08:58PM by Sublime.

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Sublime
The Kisslicer forum is unlikely to ever be back up.

The purple lines are what Kisslicer calls "crowning" (term comes from the visualization of the data on a height map or something). It should be called adaptive extrusion width as it will extrude anywhere from 1/2 to 1-1/2 times the set extrusion width to fill in areas like that as well as for walls that can be made a single wall thickness.

Do you know what happened I always thought it was the greatest. And was one of the reasons I decided to design and build my own machine let us know

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2014 09:10PM by cnc dick.

Why do you say that the Kisslicer forum is unlikely to return? What do you know?

So where it shows 4 lines in the area that measures 3mm across the extrusion width of those lines is 0.75mm (0.5mm x 1.5) due to 'adaptive' extrusion width? Sorry for being slow on the uptake.

EDIT: I just saw your edit, yes I know that the width is 3mm.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2014 09:05PM by danlanigan.

The creator of Kisslicer has not been reachable since Sept 30/13 and in mid December the forum started to get hit with spam. From that point until last week it had received 200,000 spams which took down the server and since no one has admin access to the server and Jonathan the creator of Kisslicer is MIA I can not see it coming back.

The theories floating around were either he was sick or worse, possibly litigation against him for something in Kisslicer like the seam hiding feature or possibly he is was in negotiation with 3D systems for the software since almost every Cube printer owner said the machine is a huge waste of money if not for the fact Kisslicer made the machine actually usable. AGAIN the above is only theory and speculation none of it is confirmed or should be considered fact.

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Wow, I wish I had of known this prior to buying a pro license yesterday. Although not contactable, it seems he is still taking money in exchange for license keys. Hopefully things will improve.

To clarify your earlier comment: are you saying that crowning should be called adaptive extrusion width or extrusion width should be called adaptive extrusion width? Originally I thought it was the later but after re-reading your post I think it is the former. If it is the former than that still doesn't explain why I am getting 4 line widths at 0.5mm each to span a 3mm wall thickness. Thanks for your help thus far.

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danlanigan
Wow, I wish I had of known this prior to buying a pro license yesterday. Although not contactable, it seems he is still taking money in exchange for license keys. Hopefully things will improve.

To clarify your earlier comment: are you saying that crowning should be called adaptive extrusion width or extrusion width should be called adaptive extrusion width? Originally I thought it was the later but after re-reading your post I think it is the former. If it is the former than that still doesn't explain why I am getting 4 line widths at 0.5mm each to span a 3mm wall thickness. Thanks for your help thus far.

Do let us know if you get your key. If not be sure to request the money back from paypal before 45 days. There were more than a few people posting on the forum in the last two months saying it has been a few days/weeks and they have not received a key.

Yes crowning is the adaptive extrusion width.

Be sure comments are enabled in Kisslicer and then open a Gcode file and look at the comments at the top of the file for the extrusion width settings. I know there is a bug where windows will not update the setting if the config was originally created on Linux or Mac so it could be using the default settings despite your changes. Beyond that have you tried printing it yet? If not maybe make a test part with the same dimensions and give it a try. I have not heard of any issues with Kisslicer (my favorite just ahead of Cura) that would result in what you have found. That is not to say it is not possible.

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Can you post the stl?

No complaints there, I received the key within 24 hours. Hopefully this is a sign that things are on the mend.

I have been trying to print this part but have only been paying attention to the bed adhesion as it will just not stick. I'll count how many perimeters it does and perhaps try an measure their width. Thanks again for your help.

See stl file attached, thanks.

From being fairly involved in the KISSlicer forum, the general belief is that keys are being auto-generated and sent to new purchases. No one has been able to get in contact with the developer.

For first layer adhesion, under Printer>Hardware I enter a negative half value of my layer height into Z Offset, so for a 0.2mm layer, I have -0.1mm for Z Offset, making the first layer of the print 50% of the layer height.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2014 10:30PM by Dirty Steve.

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danlanigan
No complaints there, I received the key within 24 hours. Hopefully this is a sign that things are on the mend.
.

At one point he was talking about automating the key generation. There were a few people that tried to get keys resent and they got no response. There is a google group started with a few of the more important threads copied over to preserve them. I too hope he is well and that Kisslicer continues as it really is the best slicer currently.

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I'll try the Z offset trick, although I'm a little concerned it may result in a hotend/bed collision.

Do you know how the forum came to be taken offline about 3 days ago, I'm really missing all of the great KS info there - I'm still a beginner.

EDIT: I'll see what I can find on the google group.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2014 10:34PM by danlanigan.

I have tried several times thru KISSlicer contact, PMs, forum posts, and personal email with no response for key resend, I lost mine in a Yahoo mail glitch that removed random emails, of which my key email happened to be one.

KISSlicer has been my main slicer for almost a year.

KISSlicer site must have come back online today, as it was also down for exceeded bandwidth. Still no KS forum though.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2014 10:34PM by Dirty Steve.

Um........What layer of the slice are you looking at?

The model edges are beveled so the top layer is not 3mm wide.

I sliced with a 0.5mm extrusion and have 6 passes in the main part of the model, and 4 passes on the top most layer due to the bevel.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2014 10:41PM by Dirty Steve.

Indeed, how dim I feel right now. Well that solves that (non existent) problem. Thanks for taking the time to help, I will try and do better next time.

Glad you guys figured it out. Do not feel bad it is easy to make a mistake like that.

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Also depending on the firmware settings a negative offset may not work. It creates negative Z coordinates which are not allowed if the software endstops are enabled. If your machine has a manual endstop adjustment use that. If not you can readjust the endstop or use gcode commands in the start code. I use gcode in the start code and have the software endstops enabled. To used gcode you would enter G92 Z0.1 (change the Z0.1 to suit your needs) into the gcode prefix tab at the end after it has homed (usually g28 to home). G92 tells the machine where it currently is. So in the above example it tells the machine the nozzle is 0.1mm away from the bed so when the print actually starts it moves down that amount before starting the print to be at 0. If you want more space not less you move it up with G1 Z0.1 F600 (G1 is a move and the F number is the speed in mm/m) followed by a G92 Z0 to tell it the new position is is actually 0. This method is good because if you ever make changes to the machine you can simply open the gcode file and change the numbers to match the machine instead of re-slicing the model.

Another thing you can do to increase the first layer adhesion is to increase the bed roughness setting. The name is deceiving because it is actually a first layer height modifier. If you enter 0.1 it will add that to the layer thickness for the first layer. I would not do this for the 0.2mm layers you are using but if you go below 0.1mm it is very helpful.

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Ah, so bed roughness in KS is equivalent to first layer height in Slic3r? I was wondering how to achieve this with KS. I'll look into the prefix Gcode some more, I'll go slowly with it so as not to break anything - hopefully.

An update, I finally got my prints to stick. I shouldn't have been blaming the slicer (KS) as the problem was with the filament (white PLA from repraper.com). A PVA/water mix applied to the heated glass made the prints stick as good as (or even better than) anything I've had thus far with plain heated glass and other filaments. Lack of adhesion aside, this filament seems really good and it's very cheap.