Printed parts experience

wow -- here I was thinking I could just send the parts out to a 3D printing service, lay down like $200 and be ready to go putting the cartesian and extruder together. Boy was I wrong -- It's in the thousands of dollars! For 7 *.stl's ranging from small to large, I got quoted:
Redeye ~ 361
Alpha ~ 333
Star ~ haven't heard back yet
"Print to 3D" ~$114

And that's just for 7 parts -- there are 108 parts for the cartesian_1.0.5 + extruder_1.1, so that means we're looking at $5000-$6000 for a complete set of printed parts. I'll talk to the "Print to 3D" guy who was really quick getting a quote back to see if he may be able to lower prices enough to leave that as an option for those who don't have a buddy who can print the parts to get you started -- maybe he'll be able to because of the possible increased business for him, while still being profitable. He was like ~$1700 for the whole set and was pretty nice.

I view the building as ramp-up cost -- you need "tools" to build tools. And you either pay initially through time, or $$. If you've got the time, it's more satisfying to build the whole thing, printing, milling, whatever. But over time, I'm sure there's a sweet spot on the "time_vs_$$ plot" for the average reprapper (whatever that may be).

By the way, I found the companies at the end of this page [reprap.org]

The 7 .stl's were [sourceforge.net]:
bed-constraint-bracket
bearing-insert-360-run
bearing-insert-360-jam
bearing-insert-180-z
bed-clamp
diagonal-tie-bracket
offset-motor-holder

I've worked with Brad Rigdon, aka "Print to 3D" before (we participate in the same robotics competition). He's a great guy and liable to cut you a deal, especially since he's just starting his business.

LOL! Now you know why hardly anybody has run out to prototyping companies and had sets of Darwin parts printed up.

So what can we do to streamline production of these parts? Especially in the USA?

Squintz -- here are some options:

1) you can repstrap it [forums.reprap.org]

2) help tweak the laser-cut plywood design that viktor is working on (don't know his progress) [dev.www.reprap.org] but you'd need a laser cutter.

3) BfB [bitsfrombytes.com] shipping is $200 to the US but if you're impatient, this may be the way to go.

You won't get anywhere using an online quoter. I work for a firm like this.

I recommend you collect all your .stl's together, and create a build envelope as tightly packed as possible. The major price in any RP work is always going to be total Z height, as this is the factor that takes the most time.

If you create an 'assembly', tightly packed in and ready to roll, you should be able to get a significant discount. I was able to bring down the price of all the RP'd parts to around $700 when packed in tight enough in my SLS machine.

Still far more expensive than a bits from bytes kit.

Hey guys it's Bradley AKA Print To 3D www.printo3d.com

I've got two 3d printers both FDM machines.

Dimension BST 768 (break away supports) and SST 1200es (dissolvable supports + stronger material).

As you have already found out my price is already low.

I might be able to cut a deal in the end, but it won't be a whole lot.

Buying a 3d printer is comparable to going to walmart and buying a $30 paper printer.
When you run out of ink you go to the store only to realize the ink is $25.

Well you get the picture I suppose.

Anyways when you buy 3d print from me you are paying for time. Printer time and my time to quote, prep and ship models.

My quotes are calculated as follows: support material + model material + build trays + print time + my time + shipping, etc.

I just got off the phone with Arthur.

Once I get all 108 parts and quantities of each from him I will try to get a quote for the parts that you guys can handle... HOPEFULLY.

I don't really agree with Proto, packing files together into one .stl is a major pain in the .... sometimes. If they are not on the same plane then we just have a major headache. Also if parts are too close it can cause problems especially if parts are somehow connected. Then you also have to deal with bad parts. What if I need to reprint just one part??? I can make my own pack from your files in Magics or my Dimension software.

If lots of people are interested in these 108 parts being 3d printed from me then please leave a response to this thread.

Once I get a final tally of all the parts I will get you guys a price.

Bradley
printo3d.com

I am interested in a quote for the 108 parts.

I would be interested in a quote for the 108 parts as well.

The Extruder_1.1 documentation was updated yesterday and so I'll update the RP list (may be less than 108 parts now) and post it here later... That way also the list can be checked and Bradley can let us know what it'll take.

These are the parts for the Cartesian_1.05:

1x Bearing-insert-180-X.stl
1x Bearing-insert-180Z.stl
2x Bearing-insert-360-jam.stl
4x Bearing-insert-360-run.stl
4x Bed-clamp.stl
2x Bed-constraint-bracket.stl
4x Bed-corner.stl
2x Circlip-M8.stl
8x Corner-bracket.stl
2x Corner-bracket-vertical-bolt-plug.stl
20x Diagonal-tie-bracket.stl
1x Fan-base.stl
1x Fan-leg.stl
3x Optoswitch-bracket.stl
6x PCB-clamp.stl
5x X-belt-clamp.stl
1x X-carriage.stl
1x X-constraint-bracket.stl
1x X-idler-bracket.stl
1x X-motor-bracket.stl
1x X-opto-flag.stl
1x X-PCB-bracket.stl
1x X-square-jig.stl
3x XY-pulley-idler.stl
3x Y-bearing-housing.stl
5x Y-belt-clamp.stl
1x Y-motor-bracket.stl
1x Y-motor-coupling.stl
1x Y-opto-flag.stl
1x Z-motor-bracket.stl
1x Z-motor-coupling.stl
1x Z-opto-flag.stl
3x Z-studding-tie.stl
4x Z-toothed-pulley-rim.stl
1x Foot-spacer.stl
1x Z-belt-splicer.stl
_________________
99 = total parts (cartesian_1.05)

// This list differs from the Parts Lister list in 2 ways:
// 1) no "Z-opto-flag-base"
// 2) no "vertical-hold-plug"
// others have asked about this on the forum, and I believe the .stl's
// are missing because the design has moved on to not require them.


---------------------------------------------------

Extruder_1.1 total RP parts = 7
I browsed through the documentation and since the updated .aoi files haven't been converted to .stl, I can do that later today (unless someone wants to do that sooner) [reprap.svn.sourceforge.net]

The only question is that "smoothing" has been turned on in some of the .aoi files and I wonder if that changes the dimensions of the part -- anyone know?

Print To 3D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't really agree with Proto, packing files
> together into one .stl is a major pain in the ....
> sometimes. If they are not on the same plane then
> we just have a major headache. Also if parts are
> too close it can cause problems especially if
> parts are somehow connected. Then you also have
> to deal with bad parts. What if I need to reprint
> just one part??? I can make my own pack from your
> files in Magics or my Dimension software.

Hey Bradley,

I'm aware that 3D printers wouldn't perhaps be able to do all this that economically. I apologize for making this generalization.

We use SLS, and while scan (laser on) time does increase significantly when you pack that many parts together, volume isn't as big a deal as it is with 3D printers as the support is the same as the build material and is easily recycled. I'm able to pack one of the Sinterstation 2500+'s I use with 5 lots of 108 parts and have it build without a problem. Though it'll probably take some 40+ hours to complete.

HI GUYS.

I want to discuss some options with all of you interested.

Would you be willing to remove the break away supports to reduce prices?

It's a pain in the ....
[www.youtube.com]

Will Sparsed (models have look the same but have a "honey comb" interior structure that saves print time and material) models work vs. Solid models?
www.printo3d.com/solidvssparse.html
[www.youtube.com]

Arthur please send over the rest of the files when you have them ready.

Bradley

I would love a quote on the rapid prototyped extruder parts mentioned here:

[reprap.org]

I would also consider paying for molded parts.

Ok the finally tally is in:

These parts will be made on my Dimension SST 1200es and the following prices are for "fill" time. Basically if you want them it may take 2-4 weeks to make them for you. Printing all these parts alone takes four YES FOUR days.

The parts will be a solid print meaning that they will be SOLID...

The parts will be made from WHITE OR BLACK ABS plus (p430). Please choose which color you want.

I make NO guarantee that the files provided to me and part quantities are correct.
Please review the items below to make sure you know what you are getting.
I am not responsible if the actual 3d printed parts do not fit together due to errors in the 3d models provided to me.

$1,250USD for the Cartesian parts listed below + shipping.

These are the parts for the Cartesian_1.05:

1x Bearing-insert-180-X.stl
1x Bearing-insert-180Z.stl
2x Bearing-insert-360-jam.stl
4x Bearing-insert-360-run.stl
4x Bed-clamp.stl
2x Bed-constraint-bracket.stl
4x Bed-corner.stl
2x Circlip-M8.stl
8x Corner-bracket.stl
2x Corner-bracket-vertical-bolt-plug.stl
20x Diagonal-tie-bracket.stl
1x Fan-base.stl
1x Fan-leg.stl
3x Optoswitch-bracket.stl
6x PCB-clamp.stl
5x X-belt-clamp.stl
1x X-carriage.stl
1x X-constraint-bracket.stl
1x X-idler-bracket.stl
1x X-motor-bracket.stl
1x X-opto-flag.stl
1x X-PCB-bracket.stl
1x X-square-jig.stl
3x XY-pulley-idler.stl
3x Y-bearing-housing.stl
5x Y-belt-clamp.stl
1x Y-motor-bracket.stl
1x Y-motor-coupling.stl
1x Y-opto-flag.stl
1x Z-motor-bracket.stl
1x Z-motor-coupling.stl
1x Z-opto-flag.stl
3x Z-studding-tie.stl
4x Z-toothed-pulley-rim.stl
1x Foot-spacer.stl
1x Z-belt-splicer.stl
_________________
99 = total parts (cartesian_1.05)

The price for the seven extruder 1.1 parts is $135USD plus shipping.

1x clamp_extruder1.1
1x drive-coupling_extruder1.1
1x gear-bush-holder_extruder1.1
1x motor-coupling_extruder1.1
1x motor-holder_extruder1.1
1xpoly-holder_extruder1.1
1xscrew-holder_extruder1.1

Total for all 106 parts is $1,385USD plus shipping.

If you want to place an order please contact me directly at printo3d@printo3d.com so I send you an invoice and so we can arrange payment. Credit cards, Paypal, and checks.

Thanks Bradley. For those who don't have a mill (or time for that matter), you could order the Extruder v1.1 printed parts, then repstrap it. I'm most likely going to do that. Seems the most cost effective to me. I'll let you all know my experience

I'm curious how much it would cost for the seven extruder parts with a sparse infill.

I plan to make a mold of the extruder parts when I receive them, so the infill does not matter.

If I order any FDM parts, it will definitely be through Print To 3D.

It would be great if your company started offering molded RepRap parts. I don't think there are any companies in the US doing so.

E alott,

You only save $5 for sparse parts of the extruder.

These parts are too small to gain anything by sparsing.

Basically the machine time is the same and I will be saving 1 cubic inch of model material by doing so...

Perhaps we should make a kind of hybrid repstrap to cut down the number of parts that you need to start. Looking at the pictures of Darwin It looks like a 2D cartesian robot perched on top of a box with a table within it that is lowered accurately via a motor.

I dont think it would be too dificult to make the box part out of MDF or plywood This would cut down the initial parts list. One might make the table with just a sheet of plywood drilled at each corner with a nut glued in for each threaded bar to go through.

I could imagine cranking the table down by hand during a print session but that would make the job of printing pretty laborious.

keith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I could imagine cranking the table down by hand
> during a print session but that would make the job
> of printing pretty laborious.

Right. I've thought down that line a bit as a possible simplification route, but really, once you have a crank that connects to a movable Z axis and raises/lowers it, 90% of the complexity is there anyway and you might as well just add a stepper to the crank and put in the extra 10% of the complexity that gets you 90% of the benefit.

Where can I find a 3d parts diagram for the extruder 1.1 or just simply a picture of it?

Print To 3D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where can I find a 3d parts diagram for the
> extruder 1.1 or just simply a picture of it?


Pictures are at [reprap.org], and that page links to a BOM that lists the printed parts.

Unfortunately, it looks like you need to install Art of Illusion and manually open then export each design file as an STL. The SVN repository with the .AoIs can be found at [reprap.svn.sourceforge.net]

Kyle Corbitt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Print To 3D Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Where can I find a 3d parts diagram for the
> > extruder 1.1 or just simply a picture of it?
>
>
> Pictures are at
> [reprap.org]
> rmoplastExtruder, and that page links to a BOM
> that lists the printed parts.
>
> Unfortunately, it looks like you need to install
> Art of Illusion and manually open then export each
> design file as an STL. The SVN repository with
> the .AoIs can be found at
> [reprap.svn.sourceforge.net]
> unk/reprap/mechanics/polymer-extruder/AoIs/


I have all the .stl's from Arthur. I just wanted to see what the whole assembly looked like when complete and how it goes together.

:-)

Nice!

Looks well done, functional and cool. But how come the surface isn't smooth like the little cup and statue in the video?

Arthur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Looks well done, functional and cool. But how
> come the surface isn't smooth like the little cup
> and statue in the video?


The video is low quality, and the apparent roughness of the extruder part surface is vastly exaggerated by the camera flash. I've handled Stratasys-made parts before, and they are actually very smooth - the ridges aren't very noticeable without careful examination.

FDM parts are always going to have a "rough" finish compared to other RP printing methods.

There are some ways to smooth parts though such as the Ready Parts method [www.redeyerpm.com]

Expect to pay a nice price for that service though from RedEye!

I've attached a toolpath of layer 39 (.390")

As you can see there will always be gaps that you simply can't fill in with a .01" strand of abs filament.

The parts in those videos are both built on Dimension machines with the same layer resolution.

ok, just curious Bradley -- thanks for the explanation guys. Looking fwd to seeing my parts