New Reprap person says "Hi."
Posted by Anonymous User
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New Reprap person says "Hi." July 22, 2008 09:48PM |
Hi 
I've been looking at fabrication systems, on and off, for the last 20 years. I found out about the RepRap project about 8-9 months ago, and i've been lurking for a while.
It's only now that i have enough money to be able to afford a RepRap machine. Before I build one, I have a number of questions, that fit in two main categories;
- That of dealing with the practical details of building and maintaining a functioning RepRap machine,
and,
- That of the variety of things that we can build with these machines.
-----------------------------------------------------
When teaching music through the use of a violin, i found that there were two main limiting factors when my students were learning to play.
- The first was the physical skills that they used when they were playing the violin, which changed the range of sounds that they could consistently produce with the practise that they did.
- The second was the training of the ear so that when they were listening to music, they could hear a greater range of what was possible.
One would constrain how you were able to percieve music, and the other would constrain how you were able to express yourself through music.
-----------------------------------------------------
I've been trying to apply this way of understandingsystems to a variety of aspects of my life, not just music.
In the case of the RepRap system, since I haven't had one of these to play with yet, I've been trying to work out what I could use a RepRap system for, and how i could cut my costs so I could afford one. This lead me to think about the energy costs of the whole device, and how i could make this with locally produced items.
So far I've found;
- one ship chandler that has a nice supply of rope work and belting,
- a builder's supply yard that has a large range of nicely seasoned wood, ductwork and made-to-measure copper piping,
- engineering suppliers for;
- iron-working,
- blacksmithing,
- tin-smithing,
- electronics suppliers, for both tools, components, and raw materials,
- and welders who can work up to oil-pipeline grade standards.
While lots of these people can provide the components necessary to build a RepRap system, they are also people who would benefit from the creation of a RepRap system, if we can but make the tools that they need.
----------------------------------------------------------------
In the same way, if I can make it pay for itself in its normal operation, then one of these machines becomes not a curiosity, but a basic necessity, as it can be used to manufacture the tools that i need to make everything else.
----------------------------------------------------------------
While I have a vast number of questions about the practical details of getting one of these extrusion systems, I also have questions about the computer systems needed to get one of these machines to function consistently.
The range of materials that we can work, and the physical properties of them is also extremely important, especially if we are to make anything that is going to be used in food production.
I don't want free polymers in my sandwiches, or in the agricultural systems, I'm making to grow my vegetables and farm my fish.
----------------------------------------------------------------
How much electricity is required to run one of these systems is another question. Power requirements for electrical devices is incredibly important if you use a boat. The battery-based power units can be supplemented by local sub-station drop-down transformers, chemically-fuelled generators, or by local wind generation, but you still need an accurate measure of the power requirements when you're working out how much extra capacity you need.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tidal and wave generation would be more efficient, but requires a greater investment in infrastructure to be really effective. With a RepRap system we could create the moulds necessary to shape the ceramics and the concrete that are needed to build them. We'd still need some metal parts, but the local shipyard can handle those.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Shore Defences to prevent erosion. Use a tough plastic base unit, with locally quarried rock, that's available every time your harbour is dredged. What's the impact limits of the materials you've been using?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I know of one successful seaweed farmer who used one form of shore defences he was building to alter the amount of seaweed he was growing for his fertiliser. Cut his costs for his fertiliser bill, to 4 days work a year. And note that was physical labour, not having to work to earn money to buy the stuff. Also didn't have to worry about algae blooms in the local environment, as the run-off would just fertilise and feed the next batch of seaweed.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Manufacturing a basic, but functional, Vertical-Axis-Wind-Turbine is a matter of one day's work, with basic light-industrial scrap
).
The generator takes a little longer, especially if you have to wind your own coils.
Create a battery system that i can print out of plastic, and I can cut my running costs to almost nothing.
----------------------------------------------------------------
How could we move the RepRap designs that we currently have, up to larger scales of production? Yes, we'd have to tweak the basic control software of the printer head, and the printing platform, but that's just a matter of fine tuning, which you'd have to do anyway when you're building it.
----------------------------------------------------------------
What's the range of speeds of the possible extrusion rates for the different kinds of plastic?
----------------------------------------------------------------
I have a whole raft of other questions to ask, but right now I have to work in the morning.
So I'll repeat the original, "Hi, this RepRap thing looks interesting", that i started with when i started this post.
Hope to hear from everyone who can help.
If I can help in any way, please drop me a line.
Bily Smith.
I've been looking at fabrication systems, on and off, for the last 20 years. I found out about the RepRap project about 8-9 months ago, and i've been lurking for a while.
It's only now that i have enough money to be able to afford a RepRap machine. Before I build one, I have a number of questions, that fit in two main categories;
- That of dealing with the practical details of building and maintaining a functioning RepRap machine,
and,
- That of the variety of things that we can build with these machines.
-----------------------------------------------------
When teaching music through the use of a violin, i found that there were two main limiting factors when my students were learning to play.
- The first was the physical skills that they used when they were playing the violin, which changed the range of sounds that they could consistently produce with the practise that they did.
- The second was the training of the ear so that when they were listening to music, they could hear a greater range of what was possible.
One would constrain how you were able to percieve music, and the other would constrain how you were able to express yourself through music.
-----------------------------------------------------
I've been trying to apply this way of understandingsystems to a variety of aspects of my life, not just music.
In the case of the RepRap system, since I haven't had one of these to play with yet, I've been trying to work out what I could use a RepRap system for, and how i could cut my costs so I could afford one. This lead me to think about the energy costs of the whole device, and how i could make this with locally produced items.
So far I've found;
- one ship chandler that has a nice supply of rope work and belting,
- a builder's supply yard that has a large range of nicely seasoned wood, ductwork and made-to-measure copper piping,
- engineering suppliers for;
- iron-working,
- blacksmithing,
- tin-smithing,
- electronics suppliers, for both tools, components, and raw materials,
- and welders who can work up to oil-pipeline grade standards.
While lots of these people can provide the components necessary to build a RepRap system, they are also people who would benefit from the creation of a RepRap system, if we can but make the tools that they need.
----------------------------------------------------------------
In the same way, if I can make it pay for itself in its normal operation, then one of these machines becomes not a curiosity, but a basic necessity, as it can be used to manufacture the tools that i need to make everything else.
----------------------------------------------------------------
While I have a vast number of questions about the practical details of getting one of these extrusion systems, I also have questions about the computer systems needed to get one of these machines to function consistently.
The range of materials that we can work, and the physical properties of them is also extremely important, especially if we are to make anything that is going to be used in food production.
I don't want free polymers in my sandwiches, or in the agricultural systems, I'm making to grow my vegetables and farm my fish.
----------------------------------------------------------------
How much electricity is required to run one of these systems is another question. Power requirements for electrical devices is incredibly important if you use a boat. The battery-based power units can be supplemented by local sub-station drop-down transformers, chemically-fuelled generators, or by local wind generation, but you still need an accurate measure of the power requirements when you're working out how much extra capacity you need.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tidal and wave generation would be more efficient, but requires a greater investment in infrastructure to be really effective. With a RepRap system we could create the moulds necessary to shape the ceramics and the concrete that are needed to build them. We'd still need some metal parts, but the local shipyard can handle those.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Shore Defences to prevent erosion. Use a tough plastic base unit, with locally quarried rock, that's available every time your harbour is dredged. What's the impact limits of the materials you've been using?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I know of one successful seaweed farmer who used one form of shore defences he was building to alter the amount of seaweed he was growing for his fertiliser. Cut his costs for his fertiliser bill, to 4 days work a year. And note that was physical labour, not having to work to earn money to buy the stuff. Also didn't have to worry about algae blooms in the local environment, as the run-off would just fertilise and feed the next batch of seaweed.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Manufacturing a basic, but functional, Vertical-Axis-Wind-Turbine is a matter of one day's work, with basic light-industrial scrap
). The generator takes a little longer, especially if you have to wind your own coils.
Create a battery system that i can print out of plastic, and I can cut my running costs to almost nothing.
----------------------------------------------------------------
How could we move the RepRap designs that we currently have, up to larger scales of production? Yes, we'd have to tweak the basic control software of the printer head, and the printing platform, but that's just a matter of fine tuning, which you'd have to do anyway when you're building it.
----------------------------------------------------------------
What's the range of speeds of the possible extrusion rates for the different kinds of plastic?
----------------------------------------------------------------
I have a whole raft of other questions to ask, but right now I have to work in the morning.
So I'll repeat the original, "Hi, this RepRap thing looks interesting", that i started with when i started this post.
Hope to hear from everyone who can help.
If I can help in any way, please drop me a line.
Bily Smith.
|
Re: New Reprap person says "Hi." July 23, 2008 10:39AM |
A few quick notes, in no particular order...
I don't see what plastic adds to this, and certainly not what a reprap could contribute. In fact, using any sort of plastic in this context is going to be expensive and probably futile.
It isn't minor tuning. There are serious hard limits here... even very expensive and well engineered commercial rapid prototypers can take a few hours to make a large-ish part. Reprap is never, ever going to be a sensible way of building things in bulk. Compare filament deposition to injection moulding, for example. The speed difference is measured in orders of magnitude.
There will always be a tradeoff, versatility against speed and efficiency. Specialised machines will be faster and more efficient. Reprap's advantage is that it might assist you in building such machines.
Small scale power generation is not really practical in the grand scheme of things. The toys we use demand too much power, and the power generators we deploy provide too little, or too unreliably. Not to mention the expense!
Anyway, that aside, what can reprap give to large scale engineering of this kind? I'm not sure where this 'molds for concrete' thing is coming from. That would require an immense amount of plastic, an enormous reprap to assemble it, and in the time it might take to do so you could have probably cast a solid block of concrete and had someone knock the corners off with a big hammer instead.
The important part of a battery is in its contents, not its container. Sure, maybe you can print in a dozen different flavours of plastic, or metal, or glass, but in the end you still need specialist parts and materials that reprap just isn't suited to working with.
Reprap is potentially a hugely versatile tool, but industry is not without other incredibly versatile tools. So far they have only been force-multipliers and cost-reducers. As someone (possibly Forrest?) said in another thread, cheap chinese metalworking tools are available worldwide; such tools could also be considered repraps in the right hands... but you do not see them changing the world.
Anyway, negative rant over
Quote
Shore Defences to prevent erosion. Use a tough plastic base unit, with locally quarried rock, that's available every time your harbour is dredged. What's the impact limits of the materials you've been using?
I don't see what plastic adds to this, and certainly not what a reprap could contribute. In fact, using any sort of plastic in this context is going to be expensive and probably futile.
Quote
How could we move the RepRap designs that we currently have, up to larger scales of production? Yes, we'd have to tweak the basic control software of the printer head, and the printing platform, but that's just a matter of fine tuning, which you'd have to do anyway when you're building it.
It isn't minor tuning. There are serious hard limits here... even very expensive and well engineered commercial rapid prototypers can take a few hours to make a large-ish part. Reprap is never, ever going to be a sensible way of building things in bulk. Compare filament deposition to injection moulding, for example. The speed difference is measured in orders of magnitude.
There will always be a tradeoff, versatility against speed and efficiency. Specialised machines will be faster and more efficient. Reprap's advantage is that it might assist you in building such machines.
Quote
Tidal and wave generation would be more efficient, but requires a greater investment in infrastructure to be really effective. With a RepRap system we could create the moulds necessary to shape the ceramics and the concrete that are needed to build them. We'd still need some metal parts, but the local shipyard can handle those.
Small scale power generation is not really practical in the grand scheme of things. The toys we use demand too much power, and the power generators we deploy provide too little, or too unreliably. Not to mention the expense!
Anyway, that aside, what can reprap give to large scale engineering of this kind? I'm not sure where this 'molds for concrete' thing is coming from. That would require an immense amount of plastic, an enormous reprap to assemble it, and in the time it might take to do so you could have probably cast a solid block of concrete and had someone knock the corners off with a big hammer instead.
Quote
Create a battery system that i can print out of plastic, and I can cut my running costs to almost nothing.
The important part of a battery is in its contents, not its container. Sure, maybe you can print in a dozen different flavours of plastic, or metal, or glass, but in the end you still need specialist parts and materials that reprap just isn't suited to working with.
Reprap is potentially a hugely versatile tool, but industry is not without other incredibly versatile tools. So far they have only been force-multipliers and cost-reducers. As someone (possibly Forrest?) said in another thread, cheap chinese metalworking tools are available worldwide; such tools could also be considered repraps in the right hands... but you do not see them changing the world.
Anyway, negative rant over
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