My final printer choice (I think!)

Hi.

I'm still researching and asking questions, but this printer is looking more and more like my final choice:
Folger Tech RepRap 2020 Prusa i3 Full Aluminum 3D Printer Kit

The specs and documentation (LINK) look good from my novice perspective, but I'd be extremely grateful if some of you experienced people could cast an eye over the specs below, and if you can see anything worth commenting on I'd be very pleased to hear it.

BTW, there is also an option to include this LCD controller for just another USD$12. Useful???

KIT CONTENTS:

Complete Set of Black Printed Plastic Parts. [Made in the USA]
Laser cut Acrylic mounts [Made in the USA]
x12 LM8UU Linear Bearings (2 spares)
2020 Aluminum Frame set
x4 SK8 Mounts
x3 Steel Motor Mounts
x2 623ZZ Bearings
x4 F623ZZ
8mm Chromed Linear Rod for X, Y, Z (Pre-Cut)
5mm Threaded Rod
x1 Dual Power 12v/24v Heated Bed
x1 Direct Drive Extruder w/ Injection Molded Parts for 1.75mm ABS/PLA [Made in the USA]
360W 12v 30A Power Supply
x4 NEMA 17 2.6kg/cm Stepper Motors
x1 NEMA 17 4.8kg/cm Stepper Motor (Used for Bed)
2 Meters of GT2 Belt
x2 20 Tooth Pulleys
x1 Ramps 1.4
x1 Arduino Mega 2560 R3 Clone
x5 A4988 Stepper Drivers (1 Extra)
x1 Roll of 8mm Kapton Tape
x2 5mmx5mm Couplings
x3 Electronic End Stop Circuits w/ LED
x2 Belt Tensioners
x4 Threaded Bed Adjustment Knobs
x4 Bed Springs
All Required Nuts/Bolts for Assembly
Power Cable

FEATURES:

Impressive 8”x8”x7” Build Area
Able to print ABS & PLA Plastic (1.75mm)
Can run 110V or 220V (Only Comes With US Cord)


BUILD GUIDE & FIRMWARE/SOFTWARE:

Items included via the DOCUMENTATION LINK are often updated to include new and updated information:

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

I think it's good especially for the price. You can read through the 50 page thread about it on here. As you will see in the thread about it you will most likely be missing parts but it sounds like folgertech comes through sending replacements. I was only missing screws so I just bought them at the hardware store.

Check eBay for 2020 i3. They sell it on there for 299.99 with the display and free shipping. For me that was cheaper than paying shipping on their website.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2015 11:44AM by msaeger.

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Newbie with Folgertech 2020 i3.

Hi,

To me Folger kits are basic kits with cheap components :
cheap extruder, too small motors, too small extruder fan,
5mm threaded rods Z transmission with basic coupling,
no filament tensioning at the drive point, no adjustable belt tensionning...

You get a good price, not a good printer.
Don't be cheap or pay later for upgrades.

++JM

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2015 12:33PM by J-Max.

Thanks everyone for your input.

Since starting this thread I had actually gone off the Replikeo and had made this unit into my preferred option:
Folger Tech RepRap 2020 Prusa i3 Full Aluminum 3D Printer Kit. J-Max has already commented on that device in another thread.

J-Max, I fully get where you're coming from with the quality versus price argument, but for most of us, and definitely for me, it's a matter of walking a fine line between the two. I'm prepared not to have everything exactly as I will eventually discover I want it, and accept that I may want to make changes and will have to spend more money on upgrades. If I can just come close with the initial purchase I'll be happy to expand/upgrade bit-by-bit as I can afford it. The most important issues for me at the outset are:

1. A reliable supplier who is responsive to support.

2. Good, thorough, readable assembly & operating instructions, with lots of photographs.

3. Everything in the box that should be there. I've seen too many stories of people waiting days and weeks for international delivery only to find there are bits missing, and that's inexcusable.

4. Good strong packaging. Again, there are lots of stories of damage in transit due to inadequate strength of packaging.

J-Max, since you seem to know your stuff, what are your thoughts on the "official kit" from Prusa, which I actually didn't know about until Qdeathstar mentioned it. Unfortunately it's much more expensive than the Folger Tech unit – almost double the price delivered to me, so I think that rules it out, but I'm certainly willing to give it due consideration.

I helped a local Hackspace member with his FolgerTech i3 kit - the one with the acrylic frame.
The extruder/hotend was just horrible. I printed him a Wades style extruder and he bought a genuine Hexagon hotend - the difference is prints was night and day.
The motors were smaller than the normal NEMA 17's - I use 4.8kg/cm on all axis not just the extruder

The design of the 2020 is more like a Prusa i2 than the newer i3 design as it has the Z-axis motors at the top.
Based on the kit I saw I would not buy one. I've always scratch build my i3's and has zero issues.
But they must be doing something right as they seem to have sold a ton of kits.

Steve

Edit to fix:
I would not buy a Folger kit myself.
I would use a Wades style extruder over a MK8 direct drive.
I wouldn't use an older design like the i2 with the motors on the top - why add weight to the top of the frame? It has to make a design like the 2020 flex.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2015 09:33PM by SteveRoy.

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My updated Instructable on our Prusa i3 Build
[www.instructables.com]

Hi again,

Fist, I must say I own a Prusa i3 printer,
made with parts from different manufacturers,
with the help of the skilled guys of my local fablab.
I also own a CoreXY and an actualy dismantled Delta.
Two working printers are enough for my needs

I agree with Steve. I helped on some Folger's kits too.
Their extruder/hotend is a cheap Geetech alike,
and it's realy pittyfull. It needs a much powerfull fan too.

See the posts about Folger's kit.
It seems service are not their priority.
And some of their kits have major issues.
For example their delta aluminium extruded connectors
which are not at the right angle...

Jo Prusa's kit is mostly original design from the 2012 version.
There's some improvements, but most of the parts
does not take in consideration some interesting improvements
from another manufacturers.
There are good points too, like the Rambo board.
But Jo's version still have the threaded rod chassis,
which i believe is not a good idea.
Threaded rods are flexible and it's very difficult
to square this chassis up. And even squared, it can twist.

If you buy Jo's kit, you realy support a part of the open source community.
It's a good point. But Jo's kit is probably not the best i3 kit money can buy.
The Vanhao Duplicator I3 put the standards high.
But I don't know any perfect i3 kit.
Even a $250 chinese kit have good and bad.

Otherhand, the prusa i3 is the most builded printer.
Any issue is known and fixed quickly.

If money is an important point for you,
and you want to get a cheap good machine, without any issue,
to me the best you can do, is compose your own kit, like I did.
Each component will be the best possible,
and there will be no comprimise anywhere.
Save money and get some help from the nearest fablab.
Print there a custom set of parts matching your components,
cut a thick wood frame, it's not as smart as a lasercut powder coated
aluminium frame, but it will be less expensive, and as good.

Here's my dream bill of materials for a Prusa I3 :

• Wade extruder with a good hobbed bolt from ReprapWorld
• Bowden E3D V6 kit with ptfe intubed heatbreak from china $10
• 10 or 12 mm smooth rods from china
• Polymer bushings from Igus, or bronze bushings from china
• 2x ACME threaded shaft mema17 motors with bronze nut from china
• 3x 17HS8401 nema17 motors for X, Y and extruder from china
• 4x 16T GT2 pulleys (2 for the motors, 2 as idler pulleys with 4x625RS bearings to hold them) from china
• Selected plastic parts, with reworked Xends with belt tensioning system from your fablab
• at last 12mm Brich plywood or 19mm MDF frame (the top !) with front and back plates for the Y chassis, DIY of from your fablab
• 5mm aluminium plate as printing surface with MK2B heatbed, from a local workshop/supplyer.
• Proximity sensor for autobed shifting from china
• MKS SBASE as mainboard, with smoothieware firmware, from MakerBase china
• Good shield cables from Element14 or Conrad for motors and endstops.

Hmm. Makes me excited to build a new one

++JM

Quote

I also own a CoreXY and an actualy dismantled Delta.

Is the CoreXY substantially better than the i3? I stumbled on the c-bot on open builds and it makes me want to try and build one.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2015 09:37PM by msaeger.

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Newbie with Folgertech 2020 i3.

I probably going to suggest you to get folgertech 2020 i3 too and i will advise you to construct a heat chamber that will hook on to the 2020 frame. This is because you might infinitely trying to heat your heated bed to 110'c because it's being cooled way faster than it could heated up. I got this problem and I had to move the bed to the back to somewhat shields it from the ceiling fan

Invaluable information guys, and I thank you all very much for making the effort.

Frustrating though, because new brand names keep coming up that have to be investigated.

J-Max I have filed your "dream bill of materials" for future reference, but I have to concede that building from a list like that, and sourcing all the other little bits and pieces myself, is beyond me at the moment. However, I know it's going to come in handy fairly soon.

A new name that you bought up is the Wanhao Duplicator I3, and I've just spent some time investigating it. It's received lots of positive feedback and I can buy it here in Australia, fully assembled, delivered to my door, for a price that is within my budget. There are also some YouTube videos available by guys who have improved it still further with their own modifications.

Yes, I know I would learn a lot building my own kit from scratch, but this agonising over "which kit" has gone on long enough.

Unless I hear some real solid reasons against it, I'm going to place an order for the Wanhao Duplicator I3 within the next couple of days.

Prices for the Wanhao unit are all over the place. The best I've spotted so far is HERE – AUD$599 delivered. If anyone spots better I'd be very pleased to hear of it.

Once I've got some actual hands-on experience with 3D printing, and with that unit in particular, I'll pull out J-Max's "dream bill of materials" and start considering parts upgrades bit by bit as I can afford them.

I hope that sounds reasonable to everyone.

And also...

Another new term I just learnt is "fablab". Never knew about them!

I've had a quick look and I'm sure it's a concept I can make use of. Gotta go now, but tomorrow I'll see what's available in the way of fablabs within a reasonable range of me.

Hi,

If you can afford a pre-mounted printer,
and if using a printer is more important than to build it,
so the Vanhao Duplicator i3 can be an acceptable solution.

Quote
msaeger
Is the CoreXY substantially better than the i3? I stumbled on the c-bot on open builds and it makes me want to try and build one.

The delta is a good machine too but the size is much bigger
compared to the allowed printing volume. And its calibration is awfully complicated.
Mounting dual extruders or accessories can be problematic.

IMHO the CoreXY system is the best architecture you can actualy get.
The push-pull transmission works pretty well and allow a good printhead stability.
You can reach pretty high printing speed with it.
I did not build or have seen any C-bot,
but it seems to me very good.
I like the 2040 profiles which are well dimensionned for that printer size.
IMHO 2020 profiles are too small, the 2040 brings more stiffness on desired directions.
The V-wheel system is light and very accurate too.

++JM

I was going to get the Wanhou i3 myself, and followed their Google group for 6 months before deciding not to get it. Although it is built, it seems most people still have to re-build it, and there is a list of mods and mandatory changes, including a recalled wiring problem that can burn up. The best point about it, is that the most experienced people of any forum are on that group.

Quote
RRuser
I was going to get the Wanhou i3 myself, and followed their Google group for 6 months before deciding not to get it. Although it is built, it seems most people still have to re-build it, and there is a list of mods and mandatory changes, including a recalled wiring problem that can burn up. The best point about it, is that the most experienced people of any forum are on that group.

According to recent messages I have read, the manufacturer was quick to implement a number of the changes, fixes & mods that users have recommended. I also seem to recall seeing a message about possibly under-spec wiring being upgraded.

Another positive is that there are a huge number of YouTube videos on the Wanhao i3, covering all sorts of topics.

I have a couple of questions to ask them yet, but so far I haven't found any recent complaints or problem reports that would put me off it.

My thanks to everyone for your advice and assistance.

Today I ordered a fully assembled Wanhao Duplicator I3.

No doubt I will have some tuning and modifying to do, so this is probably not the last you'll hear from me.

- Bill