Stolen photos

PLEASE boycot EsunPLA

They have no issues using your photos to promote their business.

This is their flickr account [www.flickr.com] which contains some of my NON-commercial work (my photos) And many of yours.

DO NOT BUY PLA FROM EsunPLA

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Did you ask them to remove your photos?

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www.Fablicator.com

I have posted on their flickr page to remove it. But this is not something I should have to do. And it's not just my pictures, there are pictures of a few other Thingiverse users Things. They didn't even have the sense to attribute the pictures to the proper people. If they had at least said this is made by Sublime Thing:nnnnn and is one of the things that can be made using our filament it may be ok.But as is they just stole peoples pictures and used them for their own personal gain. They have been called out for this before and are still doing it.

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Posting a comment to a picture which will likely never be read isn't a reasonable way to make your concern/complaint known.

Send an actual message (through Flickr mail or whatever other contact info they have given here), and link to the original source and point out the licence, and ask for it to be removed.

Spamming the forums telling people not to buy from them because they used a few photos without permission is not really the best way of going about it. If they refuse to remove it, spam away. But at least give them a reasonable chance to take it down first.

Also, I don't see a flikr account as using your image for commercial purposes. Is the photo used anywhere else?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2011 03:07PM by Andrew Diehl.

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www.Fablicator.com

It could be easily confused that these models were printed using EsunPLA filament. I think Sublime has a valid complaint.

This was the first time they were called out for stealing photos [forums.reprap.org]
They then proceeded to remove them and steal new ones.

And yes they direct people to their Flickr site to show them the quality of their filament which my parts are not made of.

It 100% lies on their part.

What would you do if you saw a site selling parts for Fablicators using your photos.

The fact is they KNOW what they are doing is wrong and keep doing it and that is unacceptable. The only thing they understand is money so I am hitting them where it hurts in the hopes they will wake up and understand.

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I was just saying you should probably contact them personally, in private, before publicly denouncing their company.

I agree they should not be using the photos without obeying the licence, nor as a "sample" of their filament. I never said his complaint was invalid in the least. I think it is perfectly justified.

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www.Fablicator.com

Andrew the problem with your approach is they just delete that picture and exploit someones else's hard work and that has to stop. And like I said before sometimes you just have to hit them where it hurts before they will pay attention.

Sweeping things under the rug never actually helps anyone except the one doing something wrong!

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It is a cultural misalignment. Keep in mind that China has no copyright laws. Sublime is well within his rights to complain, and to do it loudly. They may take notice.

China does have copyright laws, but they aren't as much enforced as in the west. So complaining is probably the way to go

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reprapworld.com
PLA, ABS, PETG multiple colors (3 and 1.75 mm) €16,49 / kg
Megatronics 3.0 €79.99 / Minitronics €37,19

I would go to this page and file an intellectual property claims notice with Yahoo.

Supposedly,

Quote

It is Yahoo!’s policy, in appropriate circumstances and at its discretion, to disable and/or terminate the accounts of users who may infringe or repeatedly infringe the copyrights or other intellectual property rights of Yahoo! and/or others.

So submit one for each picture and they'll delete it. Repeated strikes account the count holder will result in having their account removed. They might just open it up somewhere else, but you can also do a whois on their store site and go after them. But, in the end, it's probably not worth the resources to fight beyond the IP complaint with Yahoo, so, trying to disrupt their business is cheap, easy, and effective since the market size is relatively small.

With few sellers out there, and fewer legit ones, keeping money out of the wrong hands is easy.

Throwing rocks is easy enough so anybody can do it.

What is usually worth the effort, is to turn around a situation and make it in your favor. To do that always have to go to the root of things and understand how things work and why they are like they are. I will take a wild guess, and i would say somebody that is not ensunpla as whole but instead more or less like a small project of them is passionate about reprap and wants to develop the filament market. E.g. here. So far so good, and we certainly can relate to that and can use more filament suppliers. Now why would they "steal" the photos. Well, to think about that, i assume that they dont have a reprap printer. Because if that guy would have one, would certainly have used it for something at least to test or calibrate it, and then they would certainly have something to photograph. Maybe they have a 3d printer, maybe a commercial one, but putting pictures of that would be a bigger crime, a bigger lie, since would probably have nothing to do with reprap and its filament. So in the context, stealing photos of someone with a reprap might be a lesser lie. So why dont you write to them: "Look, lets find a way. You could send me some of that filament, super cheap or even free + expedition costs, and in return i can do some actual prints with your filament, and take pictures for you to have your own. I could also write a review of the filament types and properties. Or even further, the pieces i print could be the parts for a prusa and i could send it back in return so you could actually make yourself a prusa build with your own filament parts and take further pictures and print more with a prusa build afterwards." You could get: 1) to do the stuff you would do anyway, e.g. prints 2) some uber cheap or free filament maybe even a good supplier (i am fighting with a spool right now from 2,4 - 3,5mm dia that is just killing me) and ... 3) a friend ... etc. He could get what he wants or needs anyway, more or less for free since he would pay you in filament which wont be such an issue for him. Its barter: see what he wants - (picture and etc), and you could clearly use what he has. Turning bad situations into opportunities all starts like everything else starts, with trying to understand how things work, why they are like that, and what the other elements implicated want to do and would do - their trends. But i think its certainly worth taking the time to do it, most of the times.

Now that is something that NOT anybody can do.

This is only my suggestion, nothing else.

Also as a side note, i think you could feel better if you think it did stolen *your* photos, i think at least a part of that can be taken as a compliment.

He could of stolen any other photos but he chosen you! Think of it: you are worthy of stealing ! Thats gotta be something

Let that "make your day". It would make my day when someone would try steal something from me, except i know a few ppls who actually wouldnt want me even for free.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2011 02:41PM by NoobMan.

@ Noobman

The problem with your method is it promotes the idea that for the right price anyone can be bought. This being the biggest problem on earth right now and I for one am completely against a system that allows or promotes corruption.

I never complain about people using my pictures as long as they attribute it to me. And like I said before they were informed of their action in [forums.reprap.org] and proceeded to remove the pictures mentioned and steal more. That is enough proof they don't even think twice about using someone else's picture to promote there Filament. If they just want to show whats possible they could just point their customers to Thingiverse.

They do have their own printers that they sell and call a Thingomatic trying to get Makerbots business too. Here is their website showing picture of there Mendel they call a Thinomatic [reprapcn.com.b01.fcddoor.com] and here is the page where they use the Thingomatics name [forums.reprap.org]

Also when you click the report abuse button on Flickr and select "Someone is posting photos that I have taken to their Flickr account" You get a message that says

Quote
Flickr
Issues of infringement are handled for us by the specialists within the Yahoo! Copyright Teams.

For more information on how to file a Notice of Infringement with your Yahoo! Copyright Team, please click on the "Copyright/IP Policy" link that's available in the footer of every Flickr page.

You then go to that page and find they want a written letter sent by snail mail. Really this Internet based business does not have Internet access to make a complaint. And even if I did spend the time to send in the letter it would only cost me more time and EsunPLA would learn nothing. I am so tired of the stupid things people put up with that allow us to be enslaved by money and greed.

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Sublime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @ Noobman
>
> The problem with your method is it promotes the
> idea that for the right price anyone can be
> bought. This being the biggest problem on earth
> right now and I for one am completely against a
> system that allows or promotes corruption.

No, i dont promote that. What i meant is something else e.g. help each other out. That can be done quite nicely and i dont see anything wrong with it. More than that, it should be the first reaction in such cases, thats what my post was all about. Sometimes when it is the first reaction, the benefits can be unexpected and ends so different that on the overall, its always worth to consider it first before anything else. Thats where i wanted to go. And in this case, why not, it can put all things in good order and trouble free. Now about using your pictures as if were their filament results, than thats a lie and not ok, but clearly one of the easiest things to fix in this world, providing the willingness is there. If you are not willing to accept some payment in plastic to print some stuff or even parts and take pictures for them, or if they dont actually need that, then what i suggested is out of the scope, but thats another story. On the overall i do believe its totally worth to have a first reaction along the "work together" lines. Cant say how much i believe that, but probably enough that my post is biased towards it.

I feel you for the second part, probably more than i could say. And my take to deal with that is pretty much in the intro of this page here, so you could see the hints in that to figure where i stand.

> They do have their own printers that they sell and
> call a Thingomatic trying to get Makerbots ...


I am lost a little. I thought Esunpla is the company here this. But the page [www.reprapcn.com] is different and i think its more or less something close but smaller and trying to act as a reseller and maybe also make and sell printers, which explains why they try to hire ppls and the date of the bot sale post you linked is like a week ago, so i would assume they are also just starting. In products page they have only filament, nothing else, and the top banner images could be a "theme" thingy. Also its quite interesting that he chosen the Esunpla name on the forum, probably to give the impression that is the same with his own supplier. Who knows maybe it works for them, or near them, or the company is a subsidiary which could make things understandable, no clue what is it, but it does seem quite different to me right now.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2011 03:46PM by NoobMan.

Its not about photos, why wouldn't you just as has been said notify them.
No one puts this much effort to ruin a company for a couple of photos.


I will contact them to see what they can offer.

progomez Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its not about photos, why wouldn't you just as
> has been said notify them.
> No one puts this much effort to ruin a company for
> a couple of photos.

This make no sense AT ALL. I put in hundreds of hours of work into opensource hardware and ask nothing back at all. You don't seem to understand not everything is done for profit. Some of us want to live in a better world and will not stand for crap like this.

>
>
> I will contact them to see what they can offer.


Once again this only allows them to cover up the fact the use other peoples photos for their own gain. And as before they will take another persons picture. If that person does not notice they will get away with it. This behavior has to stop and the only thing people seem to understand is MONEY.

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Or maybe the filament will be a good alternative bringing down the price.

All this company would have to do to get photos of their product's end result (ie a printed parts) is post out a letter with every order asking for photos back and offering to pay $10 or so for ones they like for use on their website. They'd get a flood of photos back, and they'd be able to actually state "printed with our filament." Why don't they do this? Maybe their product is crap. Or maybe they're just lazy, dishonest, and can't think outside the square. (Of course, as Sublime has pointed out, they also sell printers, so why not just print some stuff themselves? Maybe even put some vids up on Youtube showing a printer in action with their filament. You have to wonder.)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2011 06:29PM by lob.

Considering Sublime has some of the best quality work out there, I think he has a case.

i will give them a chance as i do not like the negative element on this forum. maybe it will be good, who knows.

I don't think you're getting the point here Richard, Sublime is calling them out on false(or at least somewhat deceptive) advertising and using others work without consent.

its one thing to call out that your photos were used and getting them taken down. its another to post in every thread to boycott a company.

Quote
Progomez
Or maybe the filament will be a good alternative bringing down the price.

Ahh yes the only thing that matters to you MONEY.

Quote
Progomez
i will give them a chance as i do not like the negative element on this forum. maybe it will be good, who knows.

Let me guess, maybe some free filament.

Quote
Progomez
its one thing to call out that your photos were used and getting them taken down. its another to post in every thread to boycott a company.

A company that has repeatedly done the same thing over and over and not learnt from it gets what they deserve.

There is no place in this world for acceptance of corruption.

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Sublime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Andrew the problem with your approach is they just
> delete that picture and exploit someones else's
> hard work and that has to stop. And like I said
> before sometimes you just have to hit them where
> it hurts before they will pay attention.
>
> Sweeping things under the rug never actually helps
> anyone except the one doing something wrong!

Ever consider maybe they aren't trying to be malicious? It's a handful of photos among the 3 pages of their account, and not one of the inappropriate photos is used on their website (which must be the primary source of advertising.) They could have easily just said bugger off when they were told about the photo issues previously.

Also, the other thread is hardly great evidence of intentional wrongdoing, either. I'm still betting they don't understand exactly what was meant by CC by NC or whatever licencing was mentioned. If you haven't noticed their English is not very good.

Or perhaps the flikr account/website is being run by someone different than the person who wanders these forums? Maybe the website admin is still completely oblivious that something was ever done incorrectly.

> They do have their own printers that they sell and
> call a Thingomatic trying to get Makerbots ...

I think they were trying to say like a thing-o-matic. Or were incorrectly using thing-o-matic the way we use reprap as a blanket noun for 3d printers Again, poor English.


Anyway, for all the hundreds of hours you have contributed to the community you should spend 5 minutes to contact them directly and explain your concerns (or threats of boycott). It would be a shame if a well meaning company (which may benefit us all) was hurt because you couldn't take 5 minutes to send them a private e-mail.

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www.Fablicator.com

seriously if money was an aim i wouldn't want to bring the price down?

progomez Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> seriously if money was an aim i wouldn't want to
> bring the price down?

If you priced it higher you would not make as many sales. I know, I owned a business for years and understand how it works. The more you can sell the more money you make at any price because the cost to produce goes down faster than the sale price does.

And like is said in the Sumpod thread you could just up and run away with the money but then you could not get more money from people still willing to invest in your newest venture even though you haven't finished your first.

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Or maybe i just wanted an alternative to reprap at a lower cost?


You are not helping the reprap cause by this eratic behaviour over a couple of photos. it seems esunpla produce ok pla. whod have thought?

Simply and easy ways to fix the problem.. watermark all your photos with your name on them...
If they keep using them then you have a good case..

I did this years ago with some of my model railway photos.. it stopped the problem dead..

Yes, I know it don't stop them from going and finding other photos but yours will be safe..

Auzze

but he is crusading for the little people who dont have the time for posting negative comments. leave our photos alone.