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newbie questions

Posted by Morhaughn 
newbie questions
July 31, 2012 03:04PM
So I have been looking into building a reprap but all the searching and browsing I have done doesn't answer all my questions. I am looking to build a machine to help with my prototyping time. but if there is a way to make a final product (smooth/ a few minutes to clean up) instead of just a prototype that would be great.

what kind of quality can I expect out of a fine tuned setup? as in I see most printed parts have ridges divots and pin holes but some seem to have none at all so is it camera angle or what?

not really looking to buy a kit other then printed parts and maybe vitamin kit, any tips on what the best combo would be for the electronics/extruder?
Re: newbie questions
July 31, 2012 03:28PM
Some super tuned reprap printers can achieve fairly smooth results. Such results take a lot of time, practice, tuning, and general experience to achieve.

Here you can see the "ribs" of the layers:

This was done at a fast pace with some low quality filament. You can see in the ghost two rings where the cheap filament did not stick to itself.

Here is a print using Faberdashery filament, with slower and higher quality settings:



There is still some "ribbing" but it it is much more smooth.

There are SOOO many factors that contribute to print quality. The 3D design itself, nozzle size, calibration, canceling out backlash, print speed, hot end temp, keeping hot end temp constant, your slicing programs settings and your mastery of that program (try Slic3r)... You have to learn to use the machine; kind of like playing an instrument if you will.

I recommend you buy a complete kit. Build the machine yourself, or you will never learn the inns and outs of building a 3D printer.

I started just last year with a Printer Kit for RepRap Pro; it was a challenge but I do not regret buying the kit one bit. Now that I have a strong base knowledge (and working 3D printers) I can build 3D printers without buying whole kits.

RepRap Pro is run by Adrian Bowyer, the man who invented the RepRap: RepRapPro Website

They have a Huxley Kit and a Mendel Kit; check it out smiling smiley
Re: newbie questions
July 31, 2012 03:43PM
The Huxley Pro Kit uses Melzi Electronics and a Bowden Extruder.

The extruder itself is stationary (attached to the side of the printer) and feeds the filament to the hot end via a PTFE tube.

Bowden extruders "work a treat" but lots of folks shy away from them.

If you "must" build your own machine, check out the Azteeg Controller board. Version 3 is coming soon. Pre Order Here: Azteeg V3 Pre Order
Re: newbie questions
July 31, 2012 03:46PM
The company QU-BD is making $35 all-inclusive direct drive extruders.

The price is right; the performance has not been seen yet (still in production)
QU-BD site
Re: newbie questions
July 31, 2012 03:52PM
Idolcrasher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The company QU-BD is making $35 all-inclusive
> direct drive extruders.
>
> The price is right; the performance has not been
> seen yet (still in production)
> QU-BD site

Those are probably good extruders, but be aware that direct drive NEMA 17 extruders will be limited to 1.75mm filament. They just don't have enough torque to drive 3mm filament at any reasonable speed.


Cameron

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Re: newbie questions
July 31, 2012 04:25PM
I know myself and I will end up building from scratch eventually but I can see how building one using a kit can have its advantages of having everything you need right there instead of ordering parts and finding out you skipped/ missed something. so a Huxley feeds from the side into the hot end, I can only assume that is for some weight reason, but does it effect anything other then location? Also is every one that does this in the UK? it seems like it.
Re: newbie questions
July 31, 2012 11:50PM
A Bowden extruder means that the x-carriage does not have to carry the extruder; only the hot end.

This means the carriage is lighter and easier to move. You also don't build up as much momentum and therefore are less concerned with backlash (read: bouncing)

The direct drive extruder from QU-BD is the polar opposite; it is the motor, extruder and hot end all in one solid block.
Re: newbie questions
July 31, 2012 11:52PM
I am stateside. Dr. Bowyer (RepRap "All-Father") is based in UK and therefore the project started with a larger U.K. base
Re: newbie questions
August 03, 2012 02:20PM
Well I have been looking at the boards and I think I understand thediffernces now, except what options I should chose if I go with the Azteeg V3 Pre Order or a RAMPS. from what I can tell they are a single board solution, but I need to get stepper drivers and end stops?
Re: newbie questions
August 03, 2012 04:47PM
The Azteeg and RAMPS both need you to plug in stepper drivers.

You will probably want to buy endstop switches of some kind either way.
Re: newbie questions
August 03, 2012 04:55PM
I upsampled something on Thingverse which was no easy task I must tell you but when you upsample those ribs go bye-bye.

Here is a link to the main ribbed object: [www.thingiverse.com]
Here is a link to a derivative of it that was upsampled: [www.thingiverse.com]

That last one took a helluva lot work I must say but I only bring this up because I prefer a pure object at the software level than trying to get my electronics and machine to compensate for ribs.
Re: newbie questions
August 03, 2012 11:27PM
Dark Alchemist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That last one took a helluva lot work I must say
> but I only bring this up because I prefer a pure
> object at the software level than trying to get my
> electronics and machine to compensate for ribs.

What? The vertical ridges you see on prints are a function of how FFF printers work. You can minimize it by using smaller layer heights at the expense of speed. The 3D file has nothing to do with this.

As for facets on the model, the machine has nothing to do with that. There is no way to "compensate" for that at the machine level, except by having it smooth everything with a loss of detail and accuracy.

So, ridges on the printed model and facets on the printed model are two different things with different causes.


Cameron

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Just click "Edit" in the top-right corner of the page and start typing.
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Re: newbie questions
August 04, 2012 12:15AM
NewPerfection Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dark Alchemist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That last one took a helluva lot work I must
> say
> > but I only bring this up because I prefer a
> pure
> > object at the software level than trying to get
> my
> > electronics and machine to compensate for ribs.
>
> What? The vertical ridges you see on prints are a
> function of how FFF printers work. You can
> minimize it by using smaller layer heights at the
> expense of speed. The 3D file has nothing to do
> with this.
>
> As for facets on the model, the machine has
> nothing to do with that. There is no way to
> "compensate" for that at the machine level, except
> by having it smooth everything with a loss of
> detail and accuracy.
>
> So, ridges on the printed model and facets on the
> printed model are two different things with
> different causes.

I was not talking about the horizontal ridges as those can be removed by <2mm I was talking about the vertical ridges of the original file that makes the final print look like pure crap which is exactly what I see in the picture on this thread.
Re: newbie questions
August 04, 2012 12:23AM
Dark Alchemist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was not talking about the horizontal ridges as
> those can be removed by <2mm I was talking about
> the vertical ridges of the original file that
> makes the final print look like pure crap which is
> exactly what I see in the picture on this thread.

I addressed both. In this case the only way to fix it is to increase the resolution of the 3D model, just like you did. The best way is to take the original file and export a high quality stl in the first place.


Cameron

Help improve the RepRap wiki!
Just click "Edit" in the top-right corner of the page and start typing.
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Re: newbie questions
August 04, 2012 12:49AM
NewPerfection Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dark Alchemist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I was not talking about the horizontal ridges
> as
> > those can be removed by <2mm I was talking
> about
> > the vertical ridges of the original file that
> > makes the final print look like pure crap which
> is
> > exactly what I see in the picture on this
> thread.
>
> I addressed both. In this case the only way to
> fix it is to increase the resolution of the 3D
> model, just like you did. The best way is to take
> the original file and export a high quality stl in
> the first place.
Yep, or to create one in the first place which, after talking to the original author, wasn't done in my case.

I thought that is what was being discussed on this thread since the Pacman figures exhibited the same issues I had to deal with.
Re: newbie questions
August 04, 2012 12:58AM
I thought they were discussing the horizontal ribs, as those are a function of the printer rather than the model.


Cameron

Help improve the RepRap wiki!
Just click "Edit" in the top-right corner of the page and start typing.
Anyone can edit the wiki!
Re: newbie questions
August 04, 2012 02:32AM
NewPerfection Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought they were discussing the horizontal
> ribs, as those are a function of the printer
> rather than the model.
I agree of that was what they were talking about but I guess the prints had two distinct issues and knowing the horizontal issues was a printer issue that can easily be fixed I latched on to the other issue.
Re: newbie questions
August 05, 2012 10:10PM
well I have someone that is willing to print me some parts for a SAE kit that is semi local to me. and I was just double checking to see if this is where I need to send them to get the files or if there is a better place. Thanks
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