Buy MendelMax 2.0 beta or 1.5 ?

Hi all,

i just want to buy my first 3D printer. First I thought that a MM1.5 is enough for my requirements, but now i'am not sure any longer.

I need a printer for smooth surfaces and a large print area. I guess that the MM2.0 is the mendel printer of the future. So the MM2.0 seems to be the printer of my dreams.
BUT there are some questions I want to clarify before ordering the MM2.

1. I'am afraid of buying a beta version. Is this project on a good way to become a popular printer? Or are there any kind of problems, already?
2. MM2 kit has a 0.4mm nozzle. You know, this is 0.05mm more than usual nozzles like the 1.5er kit at www.blomker.com. Is this a problem for my smoothness requirements? Can I also print in 100microns layer with the 0.4mm nozzle?
3. Is there a glass plate included? (MendelMax 2.0 Beta Kit at makerstoolworks.com)

I know, that I can actually use the support contact at makerstoolwork, but I notized that there are a few other people out there with the same questsions.

I hope you can help me.

- Muhk

You will be happy with both. From what I understand if you buy a beta unit, Max will ship you the final parts if there are any changes. That way you will have a production 2.0 in the end. Once you build your first printer you will end up learning a lot. You won't go wrong with either. Personally I would go with the 2.0 because it will be the design going forward and it is supposedly a a whole lot easier to assemble.

Printing 0.1 with 0.4 is doable, but not the best scenario.
Btw, layer height doesn't relate to surface smoothness. You can get a nice flat-ish surface with 0.5 too.

MPower Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Printing 0.1 with 0.4 is doable, but not the best
> scenario.

Not true, it's perfectly fine and usually encouraged. It simply affects min. wall thickness which may impact small features and takes longer to print.

> Btw, layer height doesn't relate to surface
> smoothness. You can get a nice flat-ish surface
> with 0.5 too.

It absolutely relates, if your layers are stacked well and extrusion is well tuned then it will make a huge difference to exterior smoothness.
Printing at 0.5 with a 0.4 nozzle is really not advisable. A maximum layer height (for PLA) is said to be approx 0.8 * nozzle diameter (0.32mm)

Muhk>
> 1. I'am afraid of buying a beta version. Is this project on a good way to become a popular printer? Or are there any kind of problems, already?

There are no reported problems as far as I know, but please note that I bought the mendelmax 1.0 kit when first released and had several problems which were later addressed. That being said it is now a fantastic and reliable machine. It's the risk of being a beta tester. Good luck!

>3. Is there a glass plate included? (MendelMax 2.0 Beta Kit at makerstoolworks.com)

It's quite rare to ship glass unless it's borosilicate, as it's very easy to get it cut locally. I would check!

Thank you for your anwsers,

ok I will buy the MendelMax 2.0 to be upgradable in the future and to fit my requirements.

Before minutes I thought that a small layer height is essential to get smoother surfaces. (thanks for clarification)
So if I want to print smoother things I should tune the extrusion and print slower, right? Are there any other related factors?

Quote
yydoctt
Printing at 0.5 with a 0.4 nozzle is really not advisable. A maximum layer height (for PLA) is said to be approx 0.8 * nozzle diameter (0.32mm)

Okay! So you advice me to use PLA? If not I will buy the ABS to get some stronger objects, etc. And I mean that the extruder of the MendelMax 2.0 beta kit doesn't have a fan on it, right?

Muhk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you for your anwsers,
>
> ok I will buy the MendelMax 2.0 to be upgradable
> in the future and to fit my requirements.

Great, I'm sure it will be a great experience!

>
> Before minutes I thought that a small layer height
> is essential to get smoother surfaces. (thanks for
> clarification)

No, you were correct mostly. Smaller layer heights tend to lead to smoother prints (on a well tuned printer)

> So if I want to print smoother things I should
> tune the extrusion and print slower, right? Are
> there any other related factors?
>
>

Slower, possibly, but not necessarily. Acceleration plays a factor, but mostly geometry. If you have nice organic shapes you can whiz around them fast without much worry of extruder inertia. Having right angles or sharp corners will require you slow down.
In terms of layer height, the smaller you go the faster it is suggested you print, so you extrude enough plastic without stretching or tearing it.

>
> Printing at 0.5 with a 0.4 nozzle is really not
> advisable. A maximum layer height (for PLA) is
> said to be approx 0.8 * nozzle diameter (0.32mm)
>
>
> Okay! So you advice me to use PLA? If not I will
> buy the ABS to get some stronger objects, etc. And
> I mean that the extruder of the MendelMax 2.0 beta
> kit doesn't have a fan on it, right?

You can use PLA, it is what most people start with, but different people have different requirements. I suggest you read up on the differences between PLA and ABS they are strong in different ways.
PLA is easier to print with and warps less, if you want to print anything large I suggest PLA.

yydoctt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MPower Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Printing 0.1 with 0.4 is doable, but not the
> best
> > scenario.
>
> Not true, it's perfectly fine and usually
> encouraged. It simply affects min. wall thickness
> which may impact small features and takes longer
> to print.
And what part of what I just said is "not true"? You just confirmed that it is doable, but you compromise.

> > Btw, layer height doesn't relate to surface
> > smoothness. You can get a nice flat-ish surface
> > with 0.5 too.
>
> It absolutely relates, if your layers are stacked
> well and extrusion is well tuned then it will make
> a huge difference to exterior smoothness.
> Printing at 0.5 with a 0.4 nozzle is really not
> advisable. A maximum layer height (for PLA) is
> said to be approx 0.8 * nozzle diameter (0.32mm)
I am not talking about 0.5 layer height with 0.4. I am saying you can get a smooth surface finish with a 0.5 noozle too. And to avoid your confusing quotes, surface = final layer.

> > > Printing 0.1 with 0.4 is doable, but not the
> > best
> > > scenario.

> And what part of what I just said is "not true"?
> You just confirmed that it is doable, but you
> compromise.

When you said it's not an ideal scenario that's completely subjective, time may not be an issue and models may not have small features, printing at low layer heights would in that case be the ideal scenario.

Also printing at lower layer heights often requires speeding up feedrates, negating some of the stigma that lowering your layer height dramatically increases print time.

> > > Btw, layer height doesn't relate to surface
> > > smoothness. You can get a nice flat-ish
> surface
> > > with 0.5 too.

> I am not talking about 0.5 layer height with 0.4.
> I am saying you can get a smooth surface finish
> with a 0.5 noozle too. And to avoid your confusing
> quotes, surface = final layer.

A model is made of numerous surfaces and it was not clear that you were only talking about the top surface. The op was referring to (presumably) all surfaces with specific mention to surfaces formed by the Z axis, as he was referring to layer height. I don't think I added confusion, you were not specific in your advice or terminology.