silly CAD software questions

Since I got my Prusa built I have been trying to get a handle on all the software for creating crap to print. I have used Sketch-up with the stl exporter plugin and it has worked out ok for the random stuff I been making. Sketch-up was an easy out for me since I have used it for years to slap together plans for wood working and stuff, but I realize its not the community norm for part design like Openscad, Heekscad & Freecad.

I decided I should at least try and conform to community standards over the last week (doesn't take long for me to get in over my head and go back to watch TV, I have A.D.D. lol). I have fooled with Openscad a bit and think I understand just enough to get into trouble but was desperately missing the mouse & the ability to measure and move things on screen (like in Sketch-up). I love the fact that I could create modules for things and if a bunch of subtracted holes didn't print right it was a matter of changing a variable at the beginning of the code (m3_hex_hole = 3.2) and it would change all the holes at once (something that would take almost a complete re-draw in Sketch-up).

So in my search for a happy medium I tried FreeCad but I think the tutorials I found on youtube weren't the best choice and got fed up quickly (TV Time!!). Then I found HeeksCad, it was easy to get started, must have been good tuts (I'm not a savant or anything). I started making boxes with cutouts (like you would subtract in OpenScad) but found that after the Cut/Fuse operation your pretty much up the creek if you need to make holes bigger like I mention above in Openscad. Am I missing something? Can you do this in anything other then Openscad?

I wasted weeks fighting bugs and limitations in all the free software out there. Eventually I caved and spent $160 on Alibre Design PE - extremely powerful, flexible and yes, you can make holes bigger later on. Free software is great but you have to consider how much time you spend on it. For me a small investment has saved me a lot of precious hours of my spare time.

My next project is to write a scripting system add-on so I can do OpenSCAD-style work.

Andy

Try the Autodesk packages. They are free. Download and use the "123 Design" for what you want. It is a full featured CAD package.

Acad 123

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Helium Frog Website

I've been playing with 123d Design and it's a nice tool, but my big problem with it is that it doesn't import from STL. You can export to STL, but if you find something on Thingiverse and want to tweak it slightly or make a small modification you can't import it into 123d Design and make your modifications. That's my main dissapointment.

Have you found a way aorund that problem?

I just took a look at Alibre Design PE (haven't downloaded the trial, just watched some videos) and it looks great. Playing with the trial will be the next step. I started searching for a place to buy it and the prices/info just added more questions though..

Alibre Design PE (according to their website) $199
if you know of a cheaper place lemme know

Am I reading this right..
If I don't pay for a yearly subscription (extra $100) I don't get bug fixes, updates?

...
> Am I reading this right..
> If I don't pay for a yearly subscription (extra
> $100) I don't get bug fixes, updates?

Probably. That's how most of the CAD industry funds future development. And of course profits.

Alibre has been around long enough that it should be pretty mature and complete code. For a hobbyist, I'd recommend skipping the subscription. Wait for enough changes to be made to justify spending another $200. If I didn't have access to SolidWorks through work (Add a zero and then some to those numbers) that's what I'd do.

To my knowledge, STL format does not retain any of the metadata associated with an object. All it is is a collection of facets with no other information. There are programs that can import it for editing - like meshlab - but it's like editing raw data.

I bought through a reseller at a discount but that particular one is no longer selling it.

Without a subscription it appears (from my experience) you get all minor updates but not major updates.

Note that a new version (2013) is due to come out shortly. See the Alibre forum for more details.

I recently found out that you can create a section view and then create a new sketch based on the cross section and start developing a new part based on it. That kind of modeling power is a requirement for some tasks I've found.

Andy

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2013 05:58PM by ajayre.

Thanks jbernardis. That actually makes some sense. It would be difficult to import if it doesn't have any metadata information. It would still be nice to be able to take the STL as a "blob" and then add shapes or subtract holes in existing objects, but size or aspect changes wouldn't really work. I think I'll stick with 123d for a while as it's the right price :-).

cobrageek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks jbernardis. That actually makes some
> sense. It would be difficult to import if it
> doesn't have any metadata information. It would
> still be nice to be able to take the STL as a
> "blob" and then add shapes or subtract holes in
> existing objects, but size or aspect changes
> wouldn't really work. I think I'll stick with
> 123d for a while as it's the right price :-).


123d Design is pretty easy to use also and if you own an iPad have the ability to download it for that too and work on the go. The iPad version has some missing features (so e needed ones) but does work well. I designed a phone case on the computer, then when I was at the car dealer getting oil change done with my iPad cut the holes for the buttons and things, did some fillets etc to finish up. Also if you have an iPad they have 123d Creatures, which allows you to create people, monster,etc.

I have not had a look at the other 123 packages, only the design one (123d). There are other programs for sculpting and scanning which are also free which might accept other formats.

.stl direct import is on the cards for a future release of 123d, but I believe it does accept .obj files.

You might be able to go through Blender3d to get to .obj and then into 123d.

Also have a look at some free data translators that might give you a way in.

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Helium Frog Website

Rather than just moan about the state of Free CAD software, It would be much more helpful if people took the time to
report bugs.

I would encourage anybody who has problems with FreeCAD to raise them in the forum.
http://sourceforge.net/apps/phpbb/free-cad/

Or even better if a reproducible bug at http://sourceforge.net/apps/mantisbt/free-cad/my_view_page.php

I reported multiple problems with FreeCAD. It was a completely frustrating two weeks trying to use it. The final response I got was that the developer doesn't test with Windows, only Linux. Since buying Alibre Design I haven't run into a single bug that stopped me from doing what I need and I've never looked back. YMMV

Andy

Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2013 07:36PM by ajayre.

Quote

I reported multiple problems with FreeCAD. It was a completely frustrating two weeks trying to use it. The final response I got was that the developer don't test with Windows, only Linux.

Do you have a forum or mantis reference?

I myself didn't have any problems with Freecad in the sense of bugs or software issues. My problem was the first tutorial I looked at drove me nuts b/c there was no explanation as to why the person was doing what they were doing. It was basically a screen capt-video of them using it, nothing more (no audio, no narration). Trying to follow it and pause / play just aggravated me into moving on to try HeeksCad.

I have since my last posting been playing with FreeCad again (was directed to some better tuts to get me started). My free time is limited so I forget stuff between sessions but I'm learning to use the "Part Design" workbench. I'm just getting a grip of the Sketcher part. The people in the Freecad forums have been very helpful.

I figure if I'm even thinking about getting Alibre I need to hold off until 2013 version comes out as Ajayre said. Gives me something to do for the time being.

I almost feel like the toying I did with Openscad, then thinking Freecad should be like it was my biggest mistake. Openscads CSG modeling to Freecad seems to be a whole different beast.

lotw, Martin, thanks for your help on 123d tools. I really do think they're nice to use and I like the ipad connection as well. I'll try some of the conversion tools you suggest and see if I can make changes to basic STL files. It's good software and I hope they keep up the enhancements and nice tutorial videos.

6of1 would you mind posting a link to those better tutorials for FreeCad? I'm currently using Inventor Pro through the education agreement (I work at a school ) but I would like to get a lesser $$$ tool under my belt for when I eventually move to a new job and lose my Inventor license.

No problem Gremlin, here ya go..

This is the material I was directed to by FreeCad forum members...
(FreeCad Wiki) link - [sourceforge.net]
(FreeCad Wiki) link 2 - [sourceforge.net]

(YouTube) John Durston - [www.youtube.com]

(Blog) Written tutorials by FreeCad forum member kwahooo - [freecad-tutorial.blogspot.ca]

In fact you can import the mesh STL into meshlab, reconstruct it, and export it as a DAE. That can recover edges and faces for manipulation in sketchup, but it is best used for basic surfaces (noting too complex or freeform, will likely have holes in the mesh). Once in sketchup you can really simplify the faces.

It's a pain, really. at the least I'd like to be able to transfer the polymesh surface into a surface + the edges and points as a basic cad file.