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Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]

Posted by SanjayM 
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 02, 2013 04:10PM
you want the nozzle to tighten up against the heat break so that there is no gap between them. If you tighten the nozzle against the heater block, then there can be a small gap between the nozzle and the heat break where molten plastic can accumulate and cause flow issues and/or jamming.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2013 04:10PM by downeym.
millerii:
thanks for the reply.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 04, 2013 02:28PM
Hello could you tell me anything about the heattreatment of material?
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 04, 2013 05:08PM
Drawcut
Yeah the inconsistent diameter surrounding 3mm filament is maddening. There is no such thing as an "industry standard" surrounding 3mm filament being intentionally undersized, just a vaguely applied consensus.

I am of the opinion that 3mm filament should be ... well.. 3mm. (Call me crazy?!) The sizing was originally based around 3mm welding rod, that had a nominal diameter of 3mm, not "a bit below 3mm". What essentially happened is that badly designed hotends used 3mm diameter holes, for 3mm filament, which is obviously not going to work well. But because the hotends were entrenched filament makers were forced to downsize filament to make it retroactively compatible with the badly dimensioned hotends. My opinion on the matter is that poor hotend design has dictated that filament has to be made undersized to actually function, and this has caused the 3mm filament market to become fragmented.

Nevertheless, I fully expect that E3D will gobble up that stuff you had, whether it is 3mm, or 2.85, the small variance shouldn't make a big difference. It should still feed just fine.

Theodleif
We certainly seemed to have nailed the 1.75mm PLA gremlins. Looking at our tech-support emails, (and the forums here) the number of questions about jamming have dropped right off the radar, and no longer do people with 1.75mm hotends running PLA seem to experience more "issues per-capita" than other configurations. Most problems now seem to stem from (most common first):

1) Bad cooling (fan not on full, not pointed at right part of hotend, airflow in/out blocked by some other object)
2) Bad filament (more complex issue, varying polymers with fillers added, bulges/kinks, and inclusion of contaminants that cause blockage of nozzle orifice)
3) Assembly issues (nozzle not sealed against heatbreak seems to cause jamming - exactly how this causes jams is not clear, but assembling it properly fixes the problem. Also slight bending of the heatbreak during assembly has caused a couple of issues.)
4) Manufacturing defects (heatbreak internal surface finish substandard, or runout on drill bit causing misalignment in bores for filament to snag on. This seems confined to a batch from v4.1, and so far no parts from v5 batches have presented with these problems.)

millerii
Wind tunnel looks fine! I've done similar things with blue painters tape in a pinch. It'll work just fine to get you off the ground.

And yes, the nozzle is NOT meant to tighten hard up against the heater-block, and leaving a very small gap between the hex-area on the nozzle and the block is correct. The mating faces of the break and the nozzle are the parts that need to be tightly pressed together.

Irish Steve
I fully understand your concept, but why not just use a probe with a microswitch on the end of it to probe the bed in the same way? You don't need to swap hotends, you don't need to have a conductive build plate, you can even have the switch on a little fold up/down hinged probe so you can deploy/stow it for quick recalibration when needed - such as changing build surfaces. This is already implemented by Johann Rocholl on the Kossel mini, and the code is in the marlin firmware. You can see a video and explanation on his blog.

3dlong
None of the parts of the hotend are heat-treated in any way? I'm not sure I understand what you are asking?

In general!
Been away for a while, had to shoot off abroad to sort out some unexpected and sudden personal business. David has been holding the fort alone at E3D-HQ in my absence and all orders have been shipping on time or earlier.
We are down to a no-lead time situation! We promise dispatch within 2 working days, but in reality 90% of stuff is out the door same or next day, and we are usually shipping Saturday and Sunday too. We say two days so that we can take a break here and there at the weekend, and allows some room if one of us is sick or something. We are still just a two man team doing this alongside full time jobs.

Kraken beta run being manufactured as we speak, this weekend I will do a bit of a summary about the normal v5 hotend changes and general E3D technology progress and future plans.

Sanjay
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 04, 2013 07:01PM
Sanjay,

Thanks for the comments, I've been working on things theoretically, and discovering a mountain of information on a regular basis. I've had long experience with microswitches, and basically don't trust them for accurate repeatability to the levels we are trying to aspire to, but I reckon it won't be too hard to use an optical switch, which will be less sensitive to variance

Looking forward to hearing more about some of the other areas you are working in, I am working on a few ideas that will hopefully allow some experiments that will enhance the process a little more.

Again, thanks, and keep up the good work.


Shore, if twas easy, we'd all be doin it

Irish Steve
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 05, 2013 06:19AM
About the Z-Probe: The hot end is electrically conductive and there are plenty of places to attach some contact to it, like right above the fan duct. So, if one was to take an electrically conductive plate like a raw PCB, probing with the hot end shouldn't be a problem. Just lower the Z until contact is made. The only thing that I am unsure of is how the plastic at the tip of the hot end will affect results; whether it will just be squeezed out of the sides or act as an insulator.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 05, 2013 10:17AM
The plastic on the tip of the hot end becomes burnt and hard so I think it would be very difficult to get a good contact. Raw copper PCBs soon tarnish and even with aluminium you always have a thin layer of aluminium oxide to break through that forms instantly in air. You really need gold plating for reliable electrical contacts that don't tarnish.

@Irish_Steve,
I have found microswitches very repeatable (button type, not lever). They are essentially a digital device tripping when an internal lever goes over centre, whereas optos and hall effect are analogue devices comparing a transduced analogue voltage with a threshold. Analogue electronics are affected by supply voltage, temperature and stray light for the opto and stray magnetic fields for the hall effect.

Having said that I don't remember anybody reporting problems with hall effect but lots of people have had problems with optos.


[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 06, 2013 10:49AM
Does anyone have some figures for microswitch repeatability? All the info I could find was not really useful - like "improved repeatability" or "high repeatability". So how high is "high"?
Compact direct-drive extruder designed for the E3D hot-end
September 12, 2013 01:35PM
Hello guys,

I got a couple of E3D hot end some days ago, so far they look great and work perfectly, thanks. (I have the 4.1 version)

Because I had problems extruding flexible material with my geared extruder, I made an attempt at designing a more compact extruder with tight filament guides. It is based on a Mk8 drive gear and a 5x10x5 bearing as the idler.

Here is a short video of it:

[www.youtube.com]

The STL and design files are available at [www.thingiverse.com]

Cheers!

Franck
Re: Compact direct-drive extruder designed for the E3D hot-end
September 13, 2013 12:45PM
Franck
Really nice video. I like the concept, extruding flexibles is something i've been wanting to get to for a good while now but simply haven't had time.

How well is this working compared to whatever solution you had before? Confining the filament to eliminate buckling and lateral slop properly should help enormously. Where are you getting that flexible polyester? How flexible is it?
Re: Compact direct-drive extruder designed for the E3D hot-end
September 13, 2013 05:59PM
Sorry for bothering with my ignorance.

But there is one thing I still do not understand about the E3D: Why can the E3D extrude 1.75 mm PLA, when almost any other all metal hotend clogs?

Is there something about its design?


Detlef

 
Excalibur Hotend
     
reprapzone.blogspot.de

Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 14, 2013 01:45AM
Ordered mine last night, got shipping conformation today! I am looking forward to this hot end. Looking foward to being able to crank up the heat a bit on my nylon prints. I've been combing this thread for all the little tips and tricks that may be posted. Cant wait to get this thing on Sarah, my I2
Re: Compact direct-drive extruder designed for the E3D hot-end
September 14, 2013 03:01AM
theodleif Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry for bothering with my ignorance.
>
> But there is one thing I still do not understand
> about the E3D: Why can the E3D extrude 1.75 mm
> PLA, when almost any other all metal hotend
> clogs?
>
> Is there something about its design?

not really, it's much easier to build a all metal hotend for 1.75mm in general than it is 3mm,




-=( blog )=- -=( thingiverse )=- -=( 3Dindustries )=- -=( Aluhotend - mostly metal hotend)=--=( Facebook )=-



Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 14, 2013 08:05AM
So I finally got around to assembling the V4 I got a while back! I have to say I am somewhat disappointed. There is no documentation in the kit, or I lost it. Searching online I can find an assembly manual for V4 on scribd, but I have to pay to access it??

I can already see the contents of the kit doesn't quite match the description. And perhaps a minor thing, it might be obvious to the author, but it is not immediately clear which is the top and bottom of the heater block.

Even without instructions, I think I have assembled it correctly, there is only really way it can go together. Build quality looks excellent, "out of box experience" a bit disappointing.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 14, 2013 03:28PM
bobc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Searching online I can find an
> assembly manual for V4 on scribd, but I have to
> pay to access it??

If you go to the E3D site, it is under the link titled "Documentation" at the top of the page.


Cameron

Help improve the RepRap wiki!
Just click "Edit" in the top-right corner of the page and start typing.
Anyone can edit the wiki!
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 15, 2013 05:21AM
NewPerfection Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bobc Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Searching online I can find an
> > assembly manual for V4 on scribd, but I have to
> > pay to access it??
>
> If you go to the E3D site, it is under the link
> titled "Documentation" at the top of the page.

Indeed it is, but I think you missed the point. If you click on the link http://www.scribd.com/doc/135003464/E3D-V4-Assembly-Manual it gives you a preview of the document, if you want the whole document you are invited to pay.

I guess that E3D meant to make it a free access document because their other documents seem to be. I also couldn't see any difference between v4/v5 so perhaps it doesn't matter.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 15, 2013 01:28PM
The link from the E3D site does not send to Scribd but to Google Docs...

[e3d-online.com]

I have no idea why the E3D people would also put their assembly manual on Scribd, but the fact is, you can get it free on Google Docs.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 16, 2013 05:22PM
What is the actual difference between v4 and v5? there 's no docs on site
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 19, 2013 02:18PM
Hey,

I recently changed from a J-head to a E3D hot end. So far I'm quite happy after 10-15 prints with 3mm PLA. I have the (very subjective) feeling that the heater block emits a bit more heat and printing overhangs is slightly harder compared to the J-head / better cooling is required. However this might also be due to the fact that I haven't fully recalibrated everything after changing the hot end.

One of my motivations to buy the E3D hot end was the possibility to change the nozzle to a different diameter or beeing able to easily replace a clogged one. Is there anything I should consider when changing the nozzle to get it tight again? I would have just replaced it while it's hot, removing all excess plastic which comes out.

Thanks,
Victor
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 19, 2013 08:11PM
Here is a question for other E3D users:

Has anyone had good success using this hot end inside of a heated chamber? I have an ultimaker where I sealed up all the sides so it gets pretty warm inside. While printing, I am forced to print with the sides open for the first few layers because the hot end gets too hot and filament starts jamming if the sides are closed.

I have heard people TALK about adding a snorkel. Has anyone done this? Did it work?

What about pumping in air from outside via a hose? Has anyone tried that?
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 21, 2013 09:28AM
I just ordered an E3D nozzle mostly due to the posts in this thread. I'm building another Prusa i3 and was wondering if there were any recommended Extruders to use with this hot-end? I went with the 1.75mm hot-end if that makes a difference so if anyone has any recommendations I would appreciate it.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 21, 2013 12:35PM
@Destroyer2012: I am running my E3D inside a chamber @~45°C max; works pretty well and I have not run into problems yet. Guess a constant airflow at maximum fan speed does the trick.

@p40whk: I am using an own custom direct drive design. Basically every J-Head mount compatible extruder should work, but if you use flexible/soft filament a lot, I would recommend looking for an extruder where the lower guide hole is very close to the hobbed bolt. Once I got a jam with taulman 618 filament when still using an old hot end. Although the gap isn't especially big in my design, I got about 20(!) cm of filament jammed up in my extruder because the filament is that flexible.
Re: Compact direct-drive extruder designed for the E3D hot-end
September 21, 2013 02:56PM
@SanjayM: Sorry for the delay, I did not see your post:-) For PLA, my direct drive extruder works just as good as the geared Wade's extruder I was using before but it also works with flexible material and it is much smaller. My previous extruder was not able to drive the flexible polyester at all, it would just curl around the hobbed bolt.

The flexible polyester I am using comes from plastic2print, it really feels like rubber and the 1.75mm filament is very flexible and elastic which makes it challenging to drive in the extruder.

I now have mounted 2 of these extruders on mu Prusa i3, here is a picture:



And here is a video of it in action: [www.youtube.com]

All the details for the extruder are here: [www.thingiverse.com]

Cheers,

Franck
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 22, 2013 10:23AM
bobc
Sorry about the lack of manual availability - we just replaced the link from v4 to v5 making the (wrong) assumption that everybody with the v4 had by now received and therefore assembled theirs.

v4 Manual Here
[docs.google.com]

But for the mostpart I would actually use the v5 build manual in preference to the v4 - the v5 manual is more detailed, has more troubleshooting advice, and the differences between the v4 and v5 don't affect how to put it together.

Karabas
-Going from v4 to v5 is a collection of tweaks and changes - most notable:
-Reduced weight due to thinner fins.
-Increased cooling capacity - thinner fins allow us to get more fins packed onto the same heatsink.
-Better final brass nozzle geometry gives less 'dragging' of the nozzle over curled up prints, and less heat radiated towards prints.
-Better chamfers/funnelling where filament enters the hotend or goes from one part of the hotend to another. This reduces snagging and increases reliability.
-Placement of thermistor altered for more accurate and reliable reading (sensor closer to melt zone).

vv_rr
Yup, just heat it right up, and unscrew the nozzle, do a little cleanup so no plastic is in your threads etc, and then just screw in your new nozzle.

destroyer2012
Not tried it myself, but I can see that there could be issues when the surrounding air-temp gets high - which is obvious really, a fan can only cool to as low as ambient. However a bunch of people have told me they have been managing to use them in enclosed chambers, but that when you hit 50C or so they start to fail.
I'd be interested to see your snorkel.

Franck
That setup looks absolutely awsesome! Nice video and print to go with it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2013 03:25PM by SanjayM.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 22, 2013 05:20PM
hello SaniayM,
have also stretched the Heat Break?
I received a replacement that seems to be a different length


Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2013 11:45AM by maralb.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 23, 2013 12:44AM
When you change/take off filament, is it better to pull it out with one constant move or slowly rise so it has time to harden?
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 23, 2013 03:03AM
Got my hot end in less than week here in the USA. Thanks for the fast shipping. Had to change a ton of things in Marlin going from the original Buschudo (sorry for the spelling) that was on my I2. Printing a Bowden mount to use with it now in PLA, which it is performing wonderfully. Can't wait to try this bad boy out with my Nylon 618 spool after that. Thanks for the great hotend. Made my life a bit easier and my prints nicer.
-Clark
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 23, 2013 12:45PM
@uGen, Thanks for the tip. I ended up printing Franck's Extruder (Thingiverse.com) he listed above and I'm hoping it works as well as the success he's had with it.

@Franck, That is a great design and I have the parts printed and am waiting on some hardware to get it all together, I printed your updated fan shroud but had to print it twice because of how thin it is. I'll have to coat it with ABS slury in order to seal it an make it air tight. I wish you would have made it at least one layer thicker.

I guess that's what you get for trying to print fine detailed items on a mediocre printer. Hopefully I can get the E3d up and running on my 2nd printer and print the parts to upgrade my first.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 24, 2013 07:20PM
maralb
Your order was for one of the earlier versions - and that particular batch had a shorter heat-break than other versions. Which in hindsight was a mistake. I have emailed you about getting you a replacement part.

millerii
I tend to just wind out the filament by hand, turning the large extruder wheel. So I would say fairly quickly, but really the speed shouldn't matter too much and filament should slide in and out without any hassle.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
September 25, 2013 06:41AM
What could cause that my (hyena)hobbed bolt sometimes eat hole to filament and then wont be able to feed it anymore?
I use 1,75mm filament, wade's extruder that has 2mm feed hole, later I drill it to 2,5mm. Extruder motor specs are 2,5A/47N-cm but stepstick is limited to 0,8A so if torque is linear it's 15N-cm.

Earlier I use extruder body that was feedhole to 3mm filament and with that, filament sometimes spinned around hobbed bolt. Then I change extruder body becouse I thought feed hole was too loose but after that it just start eatin hole to filament.

Hotend temp is 220-230C, but first time it spinned around hobbed bolt my temp was 250C. When everything works, it prints hours with good results, maybe many print jobs. Then suddenly it fails, beginning or middle of print job.
Print speed is slic3r defaults 40mm/s perimeters, 60mm/s infill, but one succesful day I try 80mm/s infill speed with no problem.

What I can do to get it reliable?
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