New project

Hello,

I'm new in the 3d printing world, so a little introduce:
My name is John and i'm from The Netherlands. In the daytime i'm an cad/cam engineer, as a hobby i design an build two stroke engines for supermoto use. Everything will be first designed in SolidWorks and than machined at the factory. But to add an extra step in the progress i want to start with rapid prototyping.
The plan is to make an custom frame with high accurate liniar guide. Thats not the problem, but the electrical stuff is. I do not have allot of experience with that kind of work!

I don't know if this is the right spot for this project in this forum, but i have some questions. I already read allot of info on the 3d printing sites but don't have accurate answers. Like what are the best steppenmotors, software ....

The budget for this project is about €750 for the eletrical components and the software.

So i hope someone could give me some info too start with. The plan is too start with deciding what components i will start. Then designing the complete printer in Solidworks, and then machine all the needed parts.

I putt a picture with it , this is an special clutch designed for an cr500 based engine.

Already thanks for the information!!

John

Hi John
I'm pretty new to it as well. I've built 3 ORD-Bot Hadrons that I use RAMPS boards. They work very well with 1.2 or 1.7 amp nema 17 motors. I bought my motors and RAMPS from ebay

motors
[www.ebay.com]

RAMPS
[www.ebay.com]

It is very simple to load the RAMPS boards with marlin and configure. I'm not very good with computers and I did it so I know it is easy if you follow the instructions.
I have less than $600 US in each of my printers.

Rodney

i am not sure what your printing but for the best prints take the time to learn skeinforge after that slic3r is good but falls short in the some areas. but very good for a fast test.

if you really need accuracy look into .9 deg per step steppers like these guys https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10846

but the more accuracy you want the more money you gotta spend,

if i had the money i would get one of these guys [www.lulzbot.com] not sure what your exchange rate is but i like them.

---

[mike-mack.blogspot.com]

First of all, don't buy the kit from www.printedparts.nl if you buy parts there, some are ok, but don't buy a kit, you will cry. I did, other buyers did.

There are some dutch-based sellers on the market, but I recommend buying from Ebay.

This week I bought an Ultrakit for electronics from Fabster3D, it's the Gadgets3D kit and I guess if you buy that electronics kit and a frame from somewhere in a kit without electronics, and combine the two, you are well on your way to print. It's what I should've done, but I didn't and I paid the price.

I am not sure what kind of machine is best for you, but that electronics kit is nice for beginners, especially if you're on budget. Furthermore, I am very interested in the MendelMax models.

Now that my new electronics kit is coming in, I might just try and get me some parts to build a mendelmax so I can put my old electronics to work

Thanks for the info!

At all the printers i look at, i never see any ball screws. Is there any reason for that?

price i think is the main reason, i have looked into a few other things like that and unless you can salvage them some parts could cost more than most kits.

going with lm8uu linear bearings and a harder steel rod is a very good way to get a improvement.

a really good examble of what can be done is pretty much anything that nophead has made for me, the quality of his prints just astounds me. if you needed advise on who to get build information from that is who i would ask.

---

[mike-mack.blogspot.com]

Just orderd the componets form ebay that REdington suggested.

Started with the design of the frame, the printable area will be X - 300mm Y - 400mm Z - 250mm.
For the alignment for all the axles I will use Cromax shafts with linear bearings on it for minimum friction and maximum accuracy. The Y and the Z axis will have ball screws, the X axis will be moved with a belt.

What gear ratio do you use for the steppermotor to the feeder of the filament?

As you know i'm not that familiar with the software. The plan is also to put the steppermotors not direct to the axles, but with a set of gears between in to give it a bit more torque. Is it necessary to have for all the axes the same ratio, or is this adjustible in the software?

The plan is to finish this weekend the design of the frame, will post some pictures when ready!!

Thanks,

John

Johnnymoto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What gear ratio do you use for the steppermotor to
> the feeder of the filament?

That varies by extruder, for example wades extruder uses 39:11 with 8mm hobbed bolt, some extruders for 1.75mm filament are direct drive.

> As you know i'm not that familiar with the
> software. The plan is also to put the
> steppermotors not direct to the axles, but with a
> set of gears between in to give it a bit more
> torque. Is it necessary to have for all the axes
> the same ratio, or is this adjustible in the
> software?

Yo can set different steps per mm ratio for each axis in firmware. Bear in mind though that 3d printer doesn't need much torque to move extruder around, you need just enough force to overcome friction in bearings/bushings and inertia of mass attached to axis. Added gears will introduce backlash into system, also there is a limit how many steps per second can firmware generate (48 kHz for teacup firmware I think), that can limit your maximum speed with large gear ratios.

I'm aware of the backlash, thinking about a system that will put this to a minimum.

For the Hardware i ordered:
Nema 17 Steppermotors
Ramps 1.4 Ulitmate kit

The kit comes with the LCD screen and TB2560 drivers for the motors.

Fot the software i'm thinking about to use Marlin as firmware and slic3r for G-code converter.

In the attachment you will find the first global design of the frame, lett me know what you will think about it!

Thanks,

John

Hi John, your design reminds me of this one:
[www.thingiverse.com]

Use it for your inspiration!
(Special attention for the bottom-mounted Z-motors)

What I use for software is:
Firmware - Marlin
Slicer - Slic3r
Print Software - Repetier Host

The Slic3r variant I use is from inside Repetier Host, it is an integrated Slic3r Module and can be operated from within Repetier Host to maximize workflow.

I actually have a design that's almost the exact same. I've been toying with it for years, adding or changing a little here and there. It looks like a great design and stable too. Recently I have changed the z axis to function with maker slide like concept, keeping the z axis rods as well. The vertical cut out for the z and x rods are used with v-bearings to add to stability and smoothness. I've only built it on paper so to speak as it looks like you have as well. Keep up the good work. Also update me on the build if you could, it would be nice to see these ideas come to life.

---

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Cool stuff going on there man!


REPRAP SQUAD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I actually have a design that's almost the exact
> same. I've been toying with it for years, adding
> or changing a little here and there. It looks like
> a great design and stable too. Recently I have
> changed the z axis to function with maker slide
> like concept, keeping the z axis rods as well. The
> vertical cut out for the z and x rods are used
> with v-bearings to add to stability and
> smoothness. I've only built it on paper so to
> speak as it looks like you have as well. Keep up
> the good work. Also update me on the build if you
> could, it would be nice to see these ideas come to
> life.

Why thank you. I'll keep you updated when I get to it. I have a huge back log of projects to get to before I start putting design to real life function.

---

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---------| For Everything Prototype Related |------
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Today recieved the Ramps 1.4 ultimate kit! The software is downloaded and installed, now wait for the steppers.

Tonight i'm going to finish all the motormounts for the frame.

Keep you updated!

Is it possible for the two Z-axis steppers too let one drive clockwise and the other one counter-clockwise?

Thanks,

John

Congratulations!
Damn, I ordered it well before you and I will get it friday...

I also have to pay 20 euros extra for the douaniers (also Holland here)..

How does your (ramps) kit look?






Johnnymoto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Today recieved the Ramps 1.4 ultimate kit! The
> software is downloaded and installed, now wait for
> the steppers.
>
> Tonight i'm going to finish all the motormounts
> for the frame.
>
> Keep you updated!

Johnnymoto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is it possible for the two Z-axis steppers too let
> one drive clockwise and the other one
> counter-clockwise?
>

Yes just wire one motor in the opposite order to the other.

---

[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

Thanks for the info, butt not nessecary any more. Turned both motors in the same direction.

Here are some pictures of the RAMPS Ultimate kit, i'm suprised about the quality for that amount of money!

Gr.

john

Where did you end up buying them?

I see you don't have the G3D drivers, I did buy a Ramps with the G3D drivers.
And where did you buy the stepper motors?




Johnnymoto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the info, butt not nessecary any more.
> Turned both motors in the same direction.
>
> Here are some pictures of the RAMPS Ultimate kit,
> i'm suprised about the quality for that amount of
> money!
>
> Gr.
>
> john

Ohmarinus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where did you end up buying them?
>
> I see you don't have the G3D drivers, I did buy a
> Ramps with the G3D drivers.
> And where did you buy the stepper motors?


Bought the kits that REdington recommended higher up in this topic. These are A4988 drivers i think, whats the quality of these drivers?

Today got a ATX power supply from a friend and got the power supply of an old pc that i found. The plan is to convert them both to an lab power supply.

Also got the J-head hotend with three fans and some springs in the mail today.

At beltingonline ordered a couple of T2.5 pullys and belts!

An update about the progress,

Made an lab power supply of a ATX, it's not delvering enough power for the complete 3D printer but is was a nice experiment to do. With a starting load i will get about 180W of it. Butt wen i put it on en then put 180W on it it shuts itself down. Think i'm going to buy a standard power supply with 30A output.

Tested the heatbed with the new power supply, heated pretty fast up!

The design of the frame is almost done, finishing the trolley of the X-axis. Also ordered a load of T2.5 pulleys and belts to try some different gearsratios.

Tomorrow pay for the ballscrews and nuts.

Also downloaded all the needed software, got different programs to try them out and find the best that suits me! Trting some different options and stuff with it.

Hope to got the printer complete finished in about 8-10 weeks.

Thanks,

John

a tip for your power supply, get a load on the 5V rail so that you get your full 12V out, i use a 10w 10ohm power resistor

---

[mike-mack.blogspot.com]

dissidence Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a tip for your power supply, get a load on the 5V
> rail so that you get your full 12V out, i use a
> 10w 10ohm power resistor


Got a 10ohm risistor build inside it, connected with a 5v line and ground. Hoped to get more power out of it!

ah cool i just saw that you had 11v on your multi meter,

is it better now, or do you still have to put more load on the 5v line to get your full 12v.?

---

[mike-mack.blogspot.com]

The 11v is with the 10 ohm risistor, i will put onother 10 ohm resistor with it in series.

Hi johnny,

To get more load on 5v you put another resistor parallel to the other one, not in series.

Groeten,

Jan

Correct me if im wrong but:

Rz in series is 20 Ohm
Rz in parallel is 5 Ohm

When two resistors used of 10 Ohm.

Hi johnny,

That is correct.
And 5 ohms gives a higher load: p=v^2/r -> 5*5/5 =25 Watt.

Jan

Question 1:

What speed can I get with this setup:
Nema 17 stepper 1.8 degree 200 steps for one revolution
1/16 micro stepping
gear ratio 0.5
marlin firmware
Ramps 1.4 board
4988 drivers
10mm pitch ball screw

In previous post Miso says that the teacup firmware can get up to 48Khz, but because I want to use Marlin I don't know what the max frequency is. When I use 48Khz I will get 900rpm at the stepper so a speed of 75mm/sec at the table.

I'm afraid I cannot get an decent speed with enough torque in the Y axis with the ball screw. I read in the forum a Nema 17 can get to a maximum of around 1000 rpm, this will give me 83.3 mm/sec for maximum speed.

Question 2:
I want to use inductive sensors as end stops for the accuracy. I don't see that many people use these sensors. Is there a reason for that? They are more expensive as the normal end stops but there more precise.
Looking for these: www.mysick.com

Thanks for the help!

Regards,

Johnnymoto

Ive messed around with reed switches which are a form of inductive switch. You can find reed switches in those window alarms. They are super cheep. I found that they just difnt work well on my reprap. I would recommend that if thats the path you want to take then give it a shot. After that post your results. I also found repeatability was an issue that could be solved with mechanical switches. The best switch that I know of today for this use is optical switches. Best of luck and let us know what you find out.

---

--------------| For Everything |--------------------------
Check it out here:
[reprapsquad.wordpress.com].
---------| For Everything Prototype Related |------
Now featuring comp case mods:
[RepRapLab.wordpress.com]

--------------| Find us at Twitter|------------------------
@REPRAPSQUAD (RS Main)
[mobile.twitter.com]
@REPRAPSQUADHQ (ProtoLab)
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