Smoothie ware

Is there a section for just smoothie ware?

I was looking for a Smoothie forum too, I didn't find one.

Maybe the RepRap Admins will create a Smoothie section

Maybe RC-CnC just volunteered to also update the limited Smoothie info in the wiki?

Seriously though, the wiki doesn't mention the Azteeg X5 Mini as compatible with Smoothie:

http://www.reprap.org/wiki/Smoothie#Smoothie

Oh yeah, +1 on a Smoothieware section under either electronics or software.....

If I knew more about Smoothieware I'd do it n a heartbeat. I'd feel awful giving someone misinformation. Maybe after this 1st project.

It's about the first mentioning of this firmware for months, so it's not exactly an urgent requirement in this forum. We do have two firmware sections and discussing Smoothieware there is welcome, of course.

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Generation 7 Electronics	Teacup Firmware	RepRap DIY

what is special about smoothieware? we don't have a marlin section or a teacup section.....

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2014 06:25PM by thejollygrimreaper.

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Yes, but there *are* sections for Repetier, EMC2, Mach3, STEP-NC, and whatever the ancient Java code was that was forgotten a long time ago in the "RepRap Host" section. (Other than Repetier, I do not even know what any of those other things are except for apparently old/obsolete.)

In the interest of keep sub-forum creep in check, how about a section dedicated to all 32-bit firmware? Even better, how about naming it "Firmware - Post-AVR and 32-bit"? The two existing ones (mainstream and experimental) are full of the same old Marlin questions, and it makes it difficult for people who have moved on from an 8-bit architecture to find any useful information among all of that noise.....

I added what I knew to the wiki (there's a bit more on the Shapeoko wiki page which I linked to --- if someone finds some suitable place on the reprap side of the house to post it feel free to copy it).

Agree that future-proofing a forum expansion would be the best compromise / option.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2014 09:49PM by WillAdams.

All I'm saying is Smoothieware could be future. Just like tape drives replaced punch cards, cassettes replaced 8 tracks, cd's replaced cassettes. I've always been an advocate on new technology

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vreihen
Even better, how about naming it "Firmware - Post-AVR and 32-bit"?

Teacup was actually the first RepRap firmware being ported to 32-bit. Recently even Marlin joins these efforts. Teacup runs on i386 and AMD64, too. There is not really something like "Post-AVR", the compiler decides which hardware a firmware works on. And except for "Smoothie is the future" I've yet to read something where it does something actually better than being yet another, tidied up wheel-reinvention. Undoubtly a welcome addition to the 3D printing arena, still hypes are counterproductive for makers and developers.

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Generation 7 Electronics	Teacup Firmware	RepRap DIY

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Traumflug
And except for "Smoothie is the future" I've yet to read something where it does something actually better than being yet another, tidied up wheel-reinvention.

It can be installed by a newbie, by simply copying two files to an SD card and sticking it into the controller. (The firmware is distributed as a binary.) That in itself is a quantum leap over the 8-bit architecture, where the instructions start with download the Arduino compiler, but this has only been tested on version 0.24 unless you're running an LCD in which case you need 1.05...and don't forget to set your board type in the pull-down menu. Not having to explain how to install a software/compiler tool chain is a huge improvement. If you can use notepad in Windows, you can configure Smoothieware.

Smoothie presents it's internal SD card as a USB thumb drive over the printer's USB cable, so you can drag/drop files directly to the printer's storage via your operating system's native file manager.

Smoothie works on a Delta printer with a graphical LCD and 1/32 microsteps without the hesitations caused by an over-taxed 8-bit CPU doing lots of square root math.

Smoothie contains an internal web server, ethernet/IP stacks, and other goodies that I haven't seen in any of the 20 different forks of Marlin.

If you take a step backwards and look at the big picture, Smoothie is its own ecosystem, with very little in common with any of the other current controller options.

Oh, and in the interest of accuracy, Repetier firmware also runs on the Arduino Due with RAMPS-FD or RADDS shields. I was going to go down this path until I discovered the Smoothie ecosystem.....

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vreihen

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Traumflug
And except for "Smoothie is the future" I've yet to read something where it does something actually better than being yet another, tidied up wheel-reinvention.

It can be installed by a newbie, by simply copying two files to an SD card and sticking it into the controller. (The firmware is distributed as a binary.) That in itself is a quantum leap over the 8-bit architecture, where the instructions start with download the Arduino compiler, but this has only been tested on version 0.24 unless you're running an LCD in which case you need 1.05...and don't forget to set your board type in the pull-down menu. Not having to explain how to install a software/compiler tool chain is a huge improvement. If you can use notepad in Windows, you can configure Smoothieware.

Smoothie presents it's internal SD card as a USB thumb drive over the printer's USB cable, so you can drag/drop files directly to the printer's storage via your operating system's native file manager.

Smoothie works on a Delta printer with a graphical LCD and 1/32 microsteps without the hesitations caused by an over-taxed 8-bit CPU doing lots of square root math.

Smoothie contains an internal web server, ethernet/IP stacks, and other goodies that I haven't seen in any of the 20 different forks of Marlin.

If you take a step backwards and look at the big picture, Smoothie is its own ecosystem, with very little in common with any of the other current controller options.

Oh, and in the interest of accuracy, Repetier firmware also runs on the Arduino Due with RAMPS-FD or RADDS shields. I was going to go down this path until I discovered the Smoothie ecosystem.....

auto bed leveling for corexy yet ?

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I didn't find a reference to a CoreXY auto bed leveling.

...plans are in the works for autolevelling for Cartesian machines, and auto calibration for Delta type machines.
[smoothieware.org]

HBot or Corexy
[smoothieware.org]

Hall-Theta (Hall-O) Z-Probe Bed Leveling Mount for Rostock MAX
If you want to use this probe, you probably need to get a controller board that runs Smoothieware, such as the Smoothieboard or Azteeg X5. We have a user with two different boards (an X5 and a Smoothieboard) who has used this probe to calibrate a Rostock MAX and another delta printer, and it worked fine.
[www.thingiverse.com]

Z-Probe Bed Leveling for SmoothieBoard
[mauk.cc]

Auto Bed Leveling Servo not responding (M280 P0 S80)
[forums.reprap.org]

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vreihen
Smoothie is its own ecosystem

That's perhaps part of the reason why discussions about Smoothie stuff often escalate. Fans of this hardware totally overlook that there are quite a number of other options giving similar or even superior feature sets and these fans apparently also manage to give the impression that they call everybody not using their favorite being stupid.

As you apparently didn't see all these features elsewhere, yet:

- 1/32 is almost standard now,
- 32-bit contollers exist, including R2C2, 4pi, Teensy3, Gen7-ARM, BeagleBone with CRAMPS, Arduino Due with RAMPS-FD or RADDS (not to mention that carefully crafted firmwares on 8-bit are close to outperfom poorly crafted ones on 32-bit) and
- if you're keen on the convenience (file manager etc.) you described, you'll find quite some people prefering to put a web server and similar stuff onto a (small) computer separate from the realtime controller to make sure these realtime tasks run undisturbed. A Raspberry Pi, Beaglebone, UDOO (separate computer and realtime controller on one PC or similar will do just fine, giving you any feature imaginable.


P.S.: I'm happy to see Smoothie users to be happy with their hardware and I'm also happy to see others using, developing or investigating other hardware. The strength of RepRap is, there's more than one choice.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2014 05:33AM by Traumflug.

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Generation 7 Electronics	Teacup Firmware	RepRap DIY

Smoothie Wars yaaaaaaah! All because I asked if there was a Smoothie section

I think Markus is making a gross generalization of persons that like and are moving to either the Smoothie platform or other 32 bit platforms. While there are a few users that are staunch supporters of the platform, I see comments that generalize those users as shortsighted as the comments some of those users make. Just as 8088 has given way to i7 8 bit machine controllers will eventually be phased out for all but the most basic machines. That's not withstanding the performance advantage for something like a Deltabot. It's the end of the road for 8 bit AVR for these apps.

Interface and operation is a big hurdle for new users. Suggesting they add hardware and complexity isn't an effective solution in terms of usability and cost. There is simply no reason to put an AVR and an A7/8 on a single board when it can be integrated with a smaller footprint, fewer parts and an easier design. Discounting the ease of configuration of the Smoothie falls short of the mark particularly when the reason of performance is given. For less than the price of an AVR with a driver board one gets an integrated solution that is easier to configure and offers better performance. In listening to Massimo speak about the Arduino Tre the reason to keep the AVR is for hardware comparability with the current shield ecosphere rather than for any performance issues.

Using performance as a reason not to abstract the control and interface is a dated design strategy. In applications that are far more real time critical, for example audio and video manipulation use native application with no separate controllers. That said, I think Smoothie still has a way to go before it gets a wider adoption rate. At least a year, probably two. Or it could not be the 32bit platform at all, something else could take that mantle. One thing is for certain,Reprap doesn't live in a vacuum in the embedded control world and as the rest of that space moves to 32 bit so will Reprap, 3D printing and CNC in general.

It just seems like Smoothie is easier to configure. Hell if you want complicated and unstable buy a Microsoft product...

I'm all for more efficient and easier designs.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2014 04:33PM by RC-CnC.

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vegasloki
I think Markus is making a gross generalization of persons that like and are moving to either the Smoothie platform or other 32 bit platforms. While there are a few users that are staunch supporters of the platform, I see comments that generalize those users as shortsighted as the comments some of those users make. Just as 8088 has given way to i7 8 bit machine controllers will eventually be phased out for all but the most basic machines. That's not withstanding the performance advantage for something like a Deltabot. It's the end of the road for 8 bit AVR for these apps.

Interface and operation is a big hurdle for new users. Suggesting they add hardware and complexity isn't an effective solution in terms of usability and cost. There is simply no reason to put an AVR and an A7/8 on a single board when it can be integrated with a smaller footprint, fewer parts and an easier design. Discounting the ease of configuration of the Smoothie falls short of the mark particularly when the reason of performance is given. For less than the price of an AVR with a driver board one gets an integrated solution that is easier to configure and offers better performance. In listening to Massimo speak about the Arduino Tre the reason to keep the AVR is for hardware comparability with the current shield ecosphere rather than for any performance issues.

Using performance as a reason not to abstract the control and interface is a dated design strategy. In applications that are far more real time critical, for example audio and video manipulation use native application with no separate controllers. That said, I think Smoothie still has a way to go before it gets a wider adoption rate. At least a year, probably two. Or it could not be the 32bit platform at all, something else could take that mantle. One thing is for certain,Reprap doesn't live in a vacuum in the embedded control world and as the rest of that space moves to 32 bit so will Reprap, 3D printing and CNC in general.

while there is a lot more potential features in 32bit systems over 8 bit systems there seems to be a lot of politics behind the scenes when it comes to these boards, the resale potential on most of them is next to non existent unless you're happy with maybe $10 to $30 in profit which has to pay for shipping ,support and dud replacements and willing to shell out enough money to stock them in 50piece batches (some of the MOQ's are higher than that) if you decide that making them yourself is an option theres all sorts of complicated politics around that issue too usually involving demands for a percentage of the profits (which usually end up making the whole thing unworkable anyway)

then there is the firmware politics where features or small fixes only get added to the mainstream version if they suit or are going to be used by the main developer or they have some incentive to bring it in (like money), even marlin suffers from this problem (look at the marlin pull request list)

i'm hesitant to setup a new section of the forum for something that behaves more like a commercial product than an opensource project, especially when it's just another section to be bombarded with spam

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2014 06:08PM by thejollygrimreaper.

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Well I'm sure as time progresses you'll see the need...I'm just cutting edge I like new technology...As more boards are used you'll see profits go up...as with any new technology. Remember how much $$ top loading VCR's started out in the early 80's Now if the Mach 3 designers would get off their duff and change over to USB...Parallel really c'mon

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2014 06:37PM by RC-CnC.

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RC-CnC
Well I'm sure as time progresses you'll see the need...I'm just cutting edge I like new technology...As more boards are used you'll see profits go up...as with any new technology. Remember how much $$ top loading VCR's started out in the early 80's Now if the Mach 3 designers would get off their duff and change over to USB...Parallel really c'mon

i see the need, it's the politics behind it i object to

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RC-CnC
Remember how much $$ top loading VCR's started out in the early 80's (

Back in 1981, I wrote a state grant proposal to buy two blank T-60 VHS *tapes* @ $65 each to put together a community service video.

Around 1990, I had to be the first kid on my block with a 1GB hard disk drive. It was a SCSI Fujistu M2266SA drive, 5.25" full-height, and a blistering 3,600 RPM. Oh, and it set me back $1,820.

These days, Blockbuster is filling garbage dumps with old VHS tapes that nobody wants to watch, and the microSD card in my Azteeg X5 Mini holds 4GB in a package smaller than a fingernail that cost me $6.00.

On second thought, I think that I'm going to buy a RAMPS board.....

^^^

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vreihen

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RC-CnC
Remember how much $$ top loading VCR's started out in the early 80's (

Back in 1981, I wrote a state grant proposal to buy two blank T-60 VHS *tapes* @ $65 each to put together a community service video.

Around 1990, I had to be the first kid on my block with a 1GB hard disk drive. It was a SCSI Fujistu M2266SA drive, 5.25" full-height, and a blistering 3,600 RPM. Oh, and it set me back $1,820.

These days, Blockbuster is filling garbage dumps with old VHS tapes that nobody wants to watch, and the microSD card in my Azteeg X5 Mini holds 4GB in a package smaller than a fingernail that cost me $6.00.

On second thought, I think that I'm going to buy a RAMPS board.....

you still have the fujitsu drive don't you ?

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I don't see how Smoothieboard, Smoothieware and Azteeg X5 mini are anything but open source. All the sources are available and in fact the Smoothie hardware is specifically distributed to meet an Open Hardware definition of the license. The boards and software don't "behaves more like a commercial product". The devs aren't here and don't rely on the forum as a primary means of support. If you wanted to extend that definition then pretty much all the other hardware and firmware packages "behave" the same way. It's the users that drive it. That said I don't think a separate forum here is the answer. It could be a good secondary source but I think those in that community need a place they can call thier own.

I don't know where you get your PCBA done but in Shenzhen if one is having boards made in quantity it's less expensive to have an Azteeg or even a Smoothie built rather than have a RAMPS, AT Mega clone and stepper driver boards built,tested and packaged. Getting boards from the cloners is much cheaper than having a PCBA make them but they aren't doing many 32 bit boards because of demand. That will likely change over the next year or so once some designs start gaining traction. From a parts standpoint it's a single board, single processor, single set of tests and packaging. The parts at SEG or one of the other markets are far less expensive than anywhere else in the world for the same part. Price it like one would when getting a quote from a PCBA house and the price difference is readily apparent if you are having your own made. The reason the popular packages are as inexpensive as they are is that the cloners are making thousands of them.

In terms of namebrand product in the US a retail Azteeg x5 mini is less expensive for me than buying an Arduino brand AT Mega at my wholesale pricing , an Ultimachine RAMPS at wholesale pricing and genuine Pololu stepper driver boards in quantity. The margins on something like the Azteeg aren't there buying from them but that is because Panucatt didn't price it with a wholesale channel in mind. If I buy 1000 from the PCBA that can change or when the cloners start making the boards it will change. Right now in the market it's still too new.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2014 02:28AM by vegasloki.

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thejollygrimreaper
you still have the fujitsu drive don't you ?

Actually, I recycled it (still functional!) and the i486 computer it was in about 5 years ago. It was running an 80286 Xenix app that I needed to reference on occasion up until then.....

FYI, this new Smoothie-compatible work-in-progress board just popped up in the Electronics section yesterday:

http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?13,388728

Resistance is futile.....

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vreihen
FYI, this new Smoothie-compatible work-in-progress board just popped up in the Electronics section yesterday:

http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?13,388728

Resistance is futile.....

And it's starting...

It's the firmware on which the rate of adoption will depend. Most of the installed base likely won't switch over without a more compelling reason than "it's 32 bit" except for perhaps the Delta builders. I think 32 bit adoption will be in new printers and as the hardware accessory ecosphere develops, particularly with regard to the displays or other add ons the platform will gain more acceptance. Since either the Azteeg or the Smoothie only have capability as a controller and not an Octoprint client or slicer/CAM station something like a Tre may slow adoption depending on if and how fast users are willing to migrate to an all in one solution. Still though with the pricing of the boards adding a Raspi or BBB isn't a bad value proposition for those that might need more horsepower and want a standalone workstation or integrated solution.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2014 04:19PM by vegasloki.

Hello everyone,

I am about to build a CoreXY type 3D printer and I am trying to decide which controller to use. The one I chose for my build (PrntQB on Thingiverse) is based on Marlin software. Can I use Azteeg X5 and Smoothieware on it? I see that Smoothieware has got CoreXY support. Is it just plug&play after making these changes on my Azteeg X5? or do I need make some more changes on Marlin etc?

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used for HBot or Corexy.

Set arm_solution to corexy or hbot in config
and uncomment corexy_homing in config if using homing

Also it is recommended to set

alpha_max_rate
beta_max_rate

to the top speed your steppers can go, as these refer to the actuator speed (the X and Y steppers) which on a corexy can run nearly twice as fast as the requested Cartesian speed when gong in certain directions.