ABS VS PLA -- what is worst, more toxic, for our health?

I still don't know what I do like more, ABS or PLA. I think I prefer PLA because of its biodegradable... and I would like to know what is more toxic when we are printing.

PLA is better for printing, less warp and less power needed on heated bed. Also it is easier to remove from heated bed.

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New cutting edge RepRap electronics, ARM 32 bits @ 100MHz runs RepRap @ 725mm/s:

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My understanding is that ABS is physically stronger, so the final piece would be more durable. But I have not yet worked with either, and I don't know what fumes or plasticizer they give off.

Mike

My guess is that PLA is the healthier of the two. Wade once mentioned in a discussion about this that ABS off-gasses one of its components as it prints (either A, B, or S; not sure which) and that's probably not healthy.

I read through the Wikipedia page, and did not find anything about out gassing when heated, but it was certainly not ruled out. However, the page on PLA showed that its low thermal properties can cause problems. This image on Wikipedia claims that only hot water was poured into the cup before it melted.

melted PLA cup

So it looks like PLA may be healthier, but it depends on the final usage, too.

Mike

If you really want to know which is healthier, check the MSDS (material safety data sheet) for your material.

I know i *prefer* printing PLA. It smells better.

It's more brittle, and I've cut myself on the spru more (and jammed shards of it underneath my fingernails), but it smells less like slow death and more like tasty breakfast.

Mostly I decide which material I'm going to print based on what I'm printing at the time.

Good Lord! From the comments here you'd think nobody every heard of Google.


MSDS for ABS...

[www.ptsllc.com]

MSDS for PLA...

[www.absorbables.com]

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Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something.

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.

Thomas A. Edison

I guess I'll step up and say it and be that one that gets possibly flamed. :-)

ABS is more dangerous than PLA.

With that being said, now let me qualify it.
Printing with either at the proper temperature with proper ventilation should
not cause any problems (IMHO). But if you mess the temperature up and start over
heating the plastic then the fumes from ABS are more toxic than PLA (Not that any of us have ever messed the temperature up ;-) )
I wouldn't heat any ABS without ventilation, but I will admit to heating PLA without sufficient ventilation without any side affects.

And of course, you should read the MSDSs above and keep a fire extinguisher
nearby in case of a total disaster.

So what's there to flame? Insofar as overall health impact is concerned, I think that neither ABS nor PLA creates a significant occupational health issue. ABS has been processed in larger applications for many years and we haven't heard of any health blowback in that industry.

What we CAN say about ABS is that it creates some acrid fumes when you print with it that are not pleasant to be around. I can say from personal experience that a big face full of ABS print fumes on one occasion made me quite dizzy. PLA doesn't do that. Neither does HDPE or PP.

This says to me that we need to confect some sort of ventilation system associated with a heat exchanger to sort out the fumes problem with ABS in climates where you can't have open windows.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2010 03:02PM by Forrest Higgs.

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Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something.

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.

Thomas A. Edison

This is some good info to go up to the wiki pages of ABS and PLA :-)

(I do not have time right now to do it)

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New cutting edge RepRap electronics, ARM 32 bits @ 100MHz runs RepRap @ 725mm/s:

[www.3dprinting-r2c2.com]

For quick and dirty fume extraction, you can always use a shop vac duct taped or zip tied to the body and with a long exhaust hose to outside.

I run mine in a garage where I can open the door and run a fan on the other
side of the garage to blow the fumes out. It's pretty much the same thing
that I do when I'm doing a bunch of soldering.

Now you all have me worried. Going to buy some of these...

[www.amazon.com]

mattkos - that wil get rid of particulates (ie, dust), but it won't do anything for vaporized styrene.

I just stick with PLA - it works far better than ABS for me, besides being a lot more pleasant to be around.

You could just buy and wear a full chemical suit with built in respiratory system if you want to cover all of your bases, but seriously, just don't print abs or
anything that you are unsure of without lots of ventilation. Once you do a print
with it the first time you can then decided how tolerable the fumes are and then
decided how much ventilation is necessary.

Regardless of what you are printing with, if you start to feel light headed, get a head ache, feel sick to your stomach, start shaking, or in general realize that you just don't feel right - shut down the power and get yourself out into some fresh air for 15 to 30 minutes.

well PLA is more or less cheese if you want to break it down to its most basic chemestry.... not that I think we shoud start toppiong our pizza with it, just my observation, and though I'm sure my Dr wants me to cut back on my cheese, I'm sure he would complain more about my breathing ABS fumes than cheese fumes.

this is just my opinion and though I am a resonable chemist in my own feild, I'm not a plastic pro.

when i print ABS i open up my garage completely, get a lovely draft through it (roller door one end, big windows and door the other)

but if i have to do work in the same room, if i can SLIGHTLY smell the ABS i wear a chemical mask while i do other work. Who know what it could be doing in the long run and on top of all the molding, metal/plastic casting, soldering, brazing, wood/plastic sanding, I have just gotten used to wearing masks for long periods of time. (and doing as much as i can outside/with good ventilation.

PLA i just open up the garage fully and don't bother with a mask because it's not as pungent, it's an eco plastic comes from corn you could probably eat it safely, which i know isn't the same as melting and inhaling the fumes but ABS is a petrochemical... that's the only basis i have ever had although if i could smell the PLA more i would probably just wear the mask to be safe.

My mendel that's on its way will have a solid ventilation system, i want to be able to try experiment printing with whatever i can and not have to worry about the fumes.

as for strength... there are 2 good applications of ABS = slightly flexible and heat resistant.

for things I don;t want to flex, and don;t need to withstand much heat... like the block that holds the x-pulley, I prefer PLA.

For the extruder block, I prefer ABS.

I smoke 3-4 packs a day. Beat that, you poor insignificant little abs fume!

Be careful of ABS if you wear contact lenses ! I work in a injection molding factory. And when we produced abs parts, the lenses got foggy and eyes got irritated as soon as i got into the factory. (this was when we still had older machines that fumed a lot). At that point the lenses was ruined and just to throw away. The material in the lenses must reacted to the fumes in some way. The specific ABS material used was called (ABS 747) and the lenses brand was EyeQ if i remember correct.

Good to know if you wear contact lenses and your eyes get irritated, might be the abs...

I would bet more money the mold release was the cause of your eyewear problems, instead of the the ABS.

Bottom line, neither will hurt you if used at reasonable temperatures. Both will smell terrible and produce noxious fumes when overheated.

Also, lets not kid ourselve here. Neither is really environmentally friendly. While PLA is "biodegradable," it will not actually degrade in the landfill it is headed towards. If you read the fine print, unless you have an industrial composter which does 50C with high humidity, your numerous PLA test cubes will be around longer than you are.

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www.Fablicator.com

There also are so many variations of what we call "ABS" and "PLA", with different mixtures of components, additives, colors etc. that serious talking about security/healthiness would require a more precise description IMO.

I live in the coastal area, so printing PLA in garage in high humidity is out of the question.
I am currently printing in an AC room. I just cut filament to the size I need, and store the rest in a ziplock bag.
Once I am done printing, I just open my windows for ventilating the fumes.

Say what you want about zero carbon footprint of PLA, it still has the capacity to produce dangerous chemical fumes, though it has less odor.

The thing is everything that is heated has fumes even if you can't smell it. If it is on fire or melting fumes are present.

Why all the speculation?
Shouldn't someone look for facts instead?

[www.springerlink.com]

/Wolf

That ABS fumes are toxic everyone knows.
I am not aware of any toxic PLA fumes as long as you extrude at normal temperatures < 240°C.

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Bob Morrison
Wörth am Rhein, Germany
"Luke, use the source!"
BLOG - PHOTOS - Thingiverse

Here's a tip for safety. Ventilate. I worked for years in an environment in which Stoddard fluid (Napthalene, "white gas" in Britain, etc.) was used as a working fluid. It lists as essentially harmless, but I know from years of being "immersed" in it that while the paperwork says it's ok, fact is, I got headaches and nausea from being around it, regardless of whether the MSDS signs off or not. And it just plain stunk. I don't want my house or any room stinking like cooked plastic.

Ventilate. Don't wait for a report to come out ten years from now, along with a diagnosis of some debilitating disease or cancer from your doctor, that it's bad for you. Err on the side of safety. It shoudl be easy enough for people in this community to build a small insert for a window to pipe the fumes outside. (which of course also brings up the question of pollution, but that's another story for another thread.)

As an added word of caution, just wait til the nylon and AC extrusion processes are perfected...

AC?

Some variant on clear acrylic. I think I read in a few topics on the net that implied the community was using that acronym to refer to it. Sorry for the confusion.

Do you mean Poly Carbonate? Its not a variant of acrylic but it has similar properties.

yup. that sounds about right. In any case, ventilate.